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Yeah it would be cool to see some more detailed statistics and it’s a shame they aren’t really captured. Since we are talking about fan mission platforms, where players also make the content for the game, I feel like the best thing we’ve got is you can look at the number of content releases for the games. Keep in mind the graph counts campaigns as single missions - so for example NHAT and TBP both count as 1 mission. A good year for TDM has has approaching maybe 50% - mostly we’re 25-30%. https://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=152494 You could also look at the number of ratings thief missions get on https://www.thiefguild.com/ vs TDM ones, but that is pretty iffy in that you could chalk that up to more awareness of the site in the thief community than TDM Out of curiosity is there a reason a thief player can’t be a new player? I kind of think a player is a player and new players would be ones who are playing the dark mod who weren't? Is there disagreement the base of players most likely to pick up the game are fans of the thief games? They are certainly the most fruitful place to find feedback on the game beyond the sphere of this forum that I have seen. When we were trying to finish up SLL there was a lot of discussion on the forums about how long it had been since there was a release for the game. I am thankful that the stats show at least some stability over the years in terms of releases for TDM, but the trend for all of the games is decline. Not doing anything is a valid response if that’s what the devs want to do - it is not possible to provide evidence that any effort will slow that inertia. As a player and content maker I would just prefer trying to find feedback where it is offered from players who were willing to try the game but ultimately could not engage with it and see if there is anything that can be done within reason to ease them into the game. The game has a lot to offer imo. All those players are potential contributors - contributions in turn attract players - it’d be nice to see the cycle go on as long as it can.

Where are the files "guis/assets/game_maps/map_of_icon.tga" and "guis/assets/game_maps/map_of.tga" located? They're not in these locations inside tdm core. In fact I cannot fine the "game_maps" location.

Surrounded by greedy noblemen and treacherous siblings, Lady Kamila Leicester gets more than she bargains for after acquiring an ancient tome and performing the dark rituals within. Bikerdude, Wellingtoncrab, Dragofer, and I proudly present Grayman’s FM “Seeking Lady Leicester.” Notes - TDM 2.11 or later is REQUIRED to play this mission. You can get the latest TDM version via the installer or here. - Seeking Lady Leicester was originally a work-in-progress given to the Dark Mod community per Grayman’s wishes after his passing and was initially adopted by Bikerdude before Dragofer, Amadeus, and Wellingtoncrab joined to complete the FM. -This FM does NOT support any unofficial gameplay patch or mod. The use of such a patch and/or mod could break things in this FM. You've been warned. - "Story" subtitles are available for this FM. Simply go to Settings --> Audio and select "Story" or "On" for the subtitles setting. - This FM may be more hardware intensive than normal. LOD settings can be set below "Normal" to improve performance on low-end machines by disabling certain features. - This FM implements the func_peek mechanic, allowing players to peek through any door that has a keyhole on it by leaning forward. PLEASE NOTE: This function has been known to cause crashes for a small number of players in the past, likely due to using the 32-bit version of TDM. At no point in this mission is it required to use the func_peek mechanic; it is purely optional, so feel free not to use it. Download Version 1.1 This FM is available for download via the in-game mission downloader, or here via Google Drive. Promotional Screenshots ThiefGuild Thread Credits A big thanks goes out to Noelker and Goldchocobo for their wonderful voice work with the briefing and conversations, JackFarmer and itsPapiD for their fantastic briefing video, and nbohr1more for his story contributions and writing one particular gameplay feature that I won’t spoil here but you can read about in the readme.txt. An even bigger thank you goes out to our beta testers: nbhor1more, Daft Mugi, Silverwolf, Havoc, Datiswous, Cambridge Spy, Aluminumhaste, Thebigh, Ate0ate, Acolyte6, Kalavi, JoeBarnin. Thank you all very much for your fantastic feedback and tireless efforts as this FM evolved throughout the course of development! Asset Credits - Arx EOS’s Fish - Epifire’s models - Kingsal's Assets and Textures - WellingtonCrab’s assets and textures - Obsttorte's frob loot script - ZergRush's custom Grayman painting ===================Rest In Peace Grayman. You are missed=======================

TDM is already a niche genre. If we release it to a niche platform, it will be niche²! Since we would have to strip TDM off all its assets, recreate some and build a demo FM around it, it wouldn't be more than a tech-demo, i.e., there is no game, which would be niche³. It's just not worth it! We even did not release on Steam due to licensing issues and on that platform, we actually could have gained a huge player-base. No TDM dev has ever showed interest in doing such a thing and that also goes for most of our community. It's not going to happen unless you do it yourself. Be prepared to put at least 2 years of full-time work into this project.

Unless we add some special subdirectory for addons, I'm afraid they look like core files. And having duplicate decl file in core assets is a problem worth complaining about. Also it might be a bit uncertain which decl wins in the end in such situation.

OK this is a bit frustrating. I'm on version 2.11 (technically 2.11a) and not only is the inventory image for the "Map of Highborough" item black but the map itself is also black. Have I screwed up something here? EDIT: Did some debugging. I did a condump looking for issues and found this: ----- idImageManager::EndLevelLoad ----- WARNING:Couldn't load image: font [map entity: func_static_29] [model: models/map_specific/symbols/H.ase] [decl: font in <implicit file>] [image: font] WARNING:Couldn't load image: guis/assets/game_maps/map_of_icon [map entity: atdm_map_of_1] [decl: guis/assets/game_maps/map_of_icon in <implicit file>] [image: guis/assets/game_maps/map_of_icon] WARNING:Couldn't load image: guis/assets/game_maps/map_of [map entity: atdm_map_of_1] [decl: atdm:map_of in def/tdm_shopitems.def] [window: Desktop] [window: background_map] [decl: guis/assets/game_maps/map_of in <implicit file>] [image: guis/assets/game_maps/map_of] 0 purged from previous 194 kept from previous 2679 new loaded all images loaded in 6.8 seconds --------------------------------------- I opened the highex.pk4 file for examination. The game is trying to load the map images in guis/assets/game_maps, but it appears the PK4 has the actual location of guis\assets\game_maps\guis\assets\game_maps. There's a second level of directories added for some reason.

New script for mappers: my flavour of a fog density fading script. To add this to your FM, add the line "thread FogIntensityLoop();" to your map's void main() function (see the example in fogfade.script) and set "fog_fade" "1" on each foglight to enable script control of it. Set "fog_intensity_multiplier" on each info_location entity to change how thick the fog is in that location (practically speaking it's a multiplier for visibility distance). Lastly, "fog_fade_speed" on each foglight determines how quickly it will change its density. The speed scales with the current value of shaderParm3, using shaderParm3 = 1000 as a baseline. So i.e. if shaderParm is currently at 1/10th of 1000, then fade speed will be 1/10th as fast. Differences to Obsttorte's script: https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/14394-apples-and-peaches-obsttortes-mapping-and-scripting-thread/&do=findComment&comment=310436 my script uses fog lights you created, rather than creating one for you. Obsttorte's script will delete the foglight if entering a fogfree zone and recreate it later more than one fog light can be controlled (however, no per-fog-light level of control) adding this to the map requires adding a line to your void main() script, rather than adding an info_locations_settings entity with a custom scriptobject spawnarg in my script, mappers set a multiplier of fog visibility distance (shaderParm3), while in Obsttorte's script a "fog_density" spawnarg is used as an alternative to shaderParm3 smaller and less compactly written script fogfade.scriptfogfade.map

Depending what happens with the legal status of content produced by generative AI, some contributors might not only want to but be legally required to distribute their assets under a more permissive license. We have already seen AI generated textures in at least one FM. There is precedent from the US copyright office that all such works are automatically in the public domain and asserting any kind of copyright claim about them is fraud. That includes CC-BY-NC-SA, as all copyleft licenses still depend on asserting ownership over the work in order to set conditions on its use. Even CC0 is not actually the same thing as public domain.

You've had almost 20 years of random people submitting assets to the mod. Would be nice to assume everything is done properly, but what are the chances that some things weren't? I don't know if it's even possible to find that out at this point.

I'm desperate to play TDM but I just can't get past the blank menu screen problem. I have a native Linux (Ubuntu Lucid) Doom 3 install which runs perfectly on a Dell Inspiron 1525 (Intel X3100 integrated graphics) but no matter what TDM fix, update, or install I try, I always get a blank menu screen with just a cursor and the TDM music playing. I've clicked about on the blank screen before and have seen some sort of intro running so I'm pretty sure this is just a problem with the menus. I've been trying to get TDM running for weeks now and have trawled this site and google for fixes but have hitherto got nowhere. Is there something I can do to get TDM running on my machine? If it helps, here's the last log when I ran tdmlauncher.linux from my console... { X..GL_ATI_fragment_shader not found X..GL_ATI_text_fragment_shader not found ...using GL_ARB_vertex_buffer_object ...using GL_ARB_vertex_program ...using GL_ARB_fragment_program X..EXT_depth_bounds_test not found ---------- R_NV20_Init ---------- Not available. ----------- R200_Init ----------- Not available. ---------- R_ARB2_Init ---------- Available. --------------------------------- ----- R_ReloadARBPrograms ----- glprogs/test.vfp glprogs/test.vfp glprogs/interaction.vfp glprogs/interaction.vfp glprogs/bumpyEnvironment.vfp glprogs/bumpyEnvironment.vfp glprogs/ambientLight.vfp glprogs/ambientLight.vfp glprogs/shadow.vp glprogs/R200_interaction.vp glprogs/nv20_bumpAndLight.vp glprogs/nv20_diffuseColor.vp glprogs/nv20_specularColor.vp glprogs/nv20_diffuseAndSpecularColor.vp glprogs/environment.vfp glprogs/environment.vfp glprogs/arbVP_glasswarp.txt: File not found glprogs/arbFP_glasswarp.txt: File not found ------------------------------- using ARB_vertex_buffer_object memory using ARB2 renderSystem found DLL in pak file: /home/dominic/.doom3/darkmod/tdm_game02.pk4/gamex86.so copy gamex86.so to /home/dominic/.doom3/darkmod/gamex86.so Found Intel CPU, features: MMX SSE SSE2 SSE3 CMOV game using generic code for SIMD processing. --------- Initializing Game ---------- The Dark Mod 1.05, code revision 4749 Build date: Apr 6 2011 Initializing event system ...763 event definitions Initializing class hierarchy ...166 classes, 732480 bytes for event callbacks Initializing scripts /proc/cpuinfo CPU frequency: 1862.44 MHz Compiled 'removeInitialSplineAngles': 270.0 ms ---------- Compile stats ---------- Memory usage: Strings: 42, 6672 bytes Statements: 19670, 393400 bytes Functions: 1150, 117892 bytes Variables: 88108 bytes Mem used: 1080244 bytes Static data: 2277552 bytes Allocated: 2793680 bytes Thread size: 7068 bytes ...5 aas types game initialized. -------------------------------------- Parsing material files WARNING: Couldn't load image: fonts/english/micro/stone_0_12 WARNING: Couldn't load image: fonts/english/micro/stone_0_24 WARNING: Couldn't load image: fonts/english/micro/stone_1_24 WARNING: Couldn't load image: fonts/english/micro/stone_0_48 WARNING: Couldn't load image: fonts/english/micro/stone_1_48 WARNING: Couldn't load image: fonts/english/micro/stone_2_48 WARNING: Couldn't load image: fonts/english/micro/stone_3_48 WARNING: Couldn't load image: fonts/english/micro/stone_4_48 Renderpipe: Trying to open file: /dev/shm/tdm_lg_render.tga Renderpipe: File opened: /dev/shm/tdm_lg_render.tga Found 0 new mission packages. Found 2 mods in the FM folder. Parsed 1 mission declarations. -------- Initializing Session -------- WARNING: Couldn't load image: guis/assets/mainmenu/sidefigure1 WARNING: Couldn't load image: guis/assets/mainmenu/sidefigure2 WARNING: Couldn't load image: guis/assets/mainmenu/sidefigure3 WARNING: Couldn't load image: guis/assets/mainmenu/sidefigure4 WARNING: Couldn't load image: guis/assets/mainmenu/sidefigure5 WARNING: Couldn't load image: guis/assets/mainmenu/sidefigure6 WARNING: Couldn't load image: guis/assets/mainmenu/sidefigure7 WARNING: Couldn't load image: guis/assets/credits/priest WARNING: Couldn't load image: guis/assets/credits/concept01 WARNING: Couldn't load image: guis/assets/credits/characters WARNING: Couldn't load image: guis/assets/mainmenu/background_empty WARNING: Couldn't load image: guis/assets/mission_failure/fog WARNING: Couldn't load image: guis/assets/mainmenu/parchment_mainmenu WARNING: Couldn't load image: guis/assets/mainmenu/buttons_mainmenu/newmission WARNING: Couldn't load image: 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pid: 2745 2000 MB System Memory guessing video ram ( use +set sys_videoRam to force ) .. guess failed, return default low-end VRAM setting ( 64MB VRAM ) 64 MB Video Memory Async thread started guid set to Dj2riS77tc4 WARNING: Couldn't open savegame file savegames/QuickSave.save WARNING: Couldn't open savegame file savegames/QuickSave.save ]guis/assets/mainmenu/loading Unknown command 'guis/assets/mainmenu/loading' ]exit --------- Game Map Shutdown ---------- ModelGenerator memory: No LOD entries. -------------------------------------- Shutting down sound hardware ------ OSS Sound Shutdown ------ close sound device -------------------------------- idRenderSystem::Shutdown() ------------ Game Shutdown ----------- --------- Game Map Shutdown ---------- ModelGenerator memory: No LOD entries. -------------------------------------- ModelGenerator memory: No LOD entries. Shutdown event system -------------------------------------- shutdown terminal support } So far, I've tried everything suggested that I've come across but only ever get the blank menu screen. What can I do? I've tried downloading the torrent. Updated with every tdm_update.linux from the different mirrors... all to no avail. I have noticed, however, that the 'tdm_shared_stuff.zip' file isn't in my '~.doom3/darkmod' folder after any update but I'm just assuming that it unpacks? Sorry if I haven't been technical enough in explaining my problem, I'm no expert, just know the bare BASH/linux basics etc so any help in finally getting this mod running will be well appreciated. I can see there are issues in the above log but I don't know what they mean so have googled a fair few of them but haven't had any luck at all. I'm even considering deleting my native Linux Doom3 install, reinstalling D3 in WINE, and trying to get TDM running in that? Would that be worth a go? I just gotta play this mod Cheers for any feedback

I feel that tweaking shaders visually does more harm than good in the end. Here is one example of what shader tweaking leads to, and where I'll do yet another visually-breaking change: 6354 Before that is was untweakable specular which also broke visuals: 5044 What a game engine needs is a universal model (preferably well-known) with several tweakable parameters. In fact, the very idea of PBR and why it wins today is that it models real physics, and thus it works more or less the same way in every engine and scenario. It is a well-known standard (with minor variations). We can't have PBR yet (and maybe forever), thus we stick close to Phong reflection model, which has been around for decades and is also quite standard. Artists should make assets that would result in a beautiful picture, not shaders. But they can't do it if we have some weird non-standard lighting model which changes every year. We should never tweak shaders based on how average missions becomes seemingly nicer to us! If someone decides to add normal mapping, it should behave as an approximation for how real high-resolution surface should behave in our model, not as some kind of "beautifier effect". If you want to add some effect which is outside the current model, it should be done in a way that: it does not change how the previous model works (and how current missions look) it can be tweaked by understandable parameters it is applied in all shaders and all lighting the same way I believe we already have fresnel and rim, but it is kinda hardcoded and not present in all shaders. Yet another result of someone tweaking shaders based on how it looks and not on how sound it is mathematically.

@stgatilov Can answer this one. I think there's an argument for having this as a material effect to make assets stand out but I am not sure about "tying it to the ambient" light when we eventually plan to have those lights globally render proper fresnel at some point.

Just assets. If you add TG assets to TDP or TMA you should be able to run this mission.

PLAYERS * Volumetric lights appeared late before the previous beta, so the quality of volumetrics in 2.10 was rather poor, and the dithering pattern was very annoying to look at. The feature received a lot more development, and now adheres to the standards of modern rendering. The dithering pattern is gone, performance should be much better, and now you won't miss volumetrics even if you prefer to play with stencil shadows all the time! (thread) * Thanks to a certain "AI-heavy" mission, the game code has received major optimizations. It is most noticeable in low performance conditions, when game modelling takes a lot of CPU time. Previously the game could easily descend into the "spiral of death" with FPS falling below 5, now it is way harder due to better scheduling of AI thinking. There is a variety of other game code optimizations which make our lives slightly better. * New version includes several optimizations for shadows, mostly stencil shadows. A long-standing inefficiency of stencil shadows with antialiasing is fixed, new tile-based optimization is added for soft stencil shadows (thread), small lights with large meshes work faster due to BVH efforts (thread). On the side of shadow maps, the rules for distributing the resolution budget are changed: small distant lights no longer steal precious bandwidth for themselves. * There are several improvements on gameplay side as well. The core mechanics of blackjacking enemies has received subtle, yet helpful improvements (thread). Now you can grab many close pieces of loot by holding down the frob button, instead of picking up each item individually. There are several improvements to crouching, making it more responsive (thanks to @Daft Mugi). The in-game downloader now supports "sort by release date" ordering. * There were a ton of small bugfixes for issues like: bow stuck after load, wrong strafe-walk sound, crash when saving shortly after the death of an elemental, melee combat crash, issues with leaning onto doors, missing fracture sounds after loading a save, X-ray glitch in the first frame, toggling solidity/visibility, lightgem on game load, etc. MAPPERS * The engine now supports OBJ model format. This format is much more popular than ASE and LWO. The engine loading code is very lightweight: it will use your model exactly is as, and load it very quickly. The OBJ format is preferred for large meshes due for faster loading times. The only possible downside is somewhat larger download size compared to LWO, although not much and not always (thread). * Renderer should deal with large meshes much faster, thanks to BVH optimizations. Recall that idTech4 was made for very low-poly models. When renderer frontend sees a "surface" in a model, it always treats this surface as an atomic piece, doing all computations for all of its vertices and triangles. This is very good for low-poly models, can heavily drag performance down with large meshes, as several recent missions noticed during beta. The BVH data structure breaks every surface into smaller chunks, allowing renderer to quickly cull away whole chunks. This makes a big difference in case of large meshes (e.g. terrain) lit by many small lights (thread). * You no longer have to write frob-highlight stages in materials, since they are added implicitly. The problem with these stages was that were very easy to forget, which resulted in no highlight on frobable items. Also it increased cognitive load and scared mappers away. While writing frobstages is no longer necessary, the old stages work just fine. So mappers can still customize frob-highlighting if they really want to (thread). * It is now legal to override a single decl of core game in your mission. Recall that "decl" means a material, a skin, an entityDef, a particle, etc. Note that overriding a whole file from core game always worked as expected, but overriding a single decl from a file did not work reliably before (despite the common belief that it should). * The major cleaning of shaders resulted in some changes in lighting model. The aim was to make TDM lighting closer to the standard Phong model, and make it more logical in general. The changes should rarely make a big difference, aside from probably stronger specular (thread). * Added error-reporting to the GUI scripting engine. Implementing GUI scripts is very hard, error-prone, and confusing. Aside from surprising differences in Doom 3 GUI behavior compared to e.g. Javascript in DOM, a lot of confusion was caused by total lack of any error handling whatsoever! In the new version, all possible errors should result in easy-to-understand console warnings, so writing correct GUI is much easier. Also, we fixed a few features, and added a few new ones to the GUI engine (thread). * dmap command received minor improvements. Yet another big rewrite happened for T-junctions fixing code, since it took tremendous amount of time on one mission. Also a few precision improvements were made. * Other small fixes and additions: added script functions getAnimRate / setAnimRate for tweaking animations added script function setObjectiveNotification for silent objective change added script function getCurInvItemCount for interaction with inventory added script variable "AI_ENEMY_TACTILE" to the base AI scriptobject, which is true whenever the AI is in tactile range of an enemy added spawnarg absence_alert_increase for loot items as a proper substitute for absence_alert, giving control over how much an AI gets alerted if that piece goes missing added spawnargs allow_idle_anims / allow_random_headturning for customization during a running mission, useful i.e. for cutscenes AIs notice broken fracture entities trigger_multiple now works on stationary AIs almost doubled tracemodel limits, raising the restrictive limits for making collision meshes for moveable items door movers can now call "used_action_script" whenever something like a key, lockpick or other item is used on them, if they have the spawnarg "call_used_action_script" "1". ASSETS * Many new assets from capable creators in our community have been incorporated into the core assets. These include: Loot assets: Detailed coins and ingots with accompanying lore. Link Ancient loot items suitable for museums, collectors and ancient sites, first seen in the Volta series. A tiling treasure hoard texture for those with unimagineable wealth. 6 detailed book skins including 3 that are lootable, a first for TDM. Link Security assets Highly detailed standing and wall safes - with or without an accompanying combination lock. Link The combination "safe lock" is now part of core assets and can be operated by either scrolling or frobbing. Mappers no longer need to track down this asset and include it with their FM files as a custom asset. Wall-mounted locks in the style of those commonly found in the original Thief games. Camgoyle sentry, a magical stone guardian based on the security camera shooting magical projectiles at the player, first seen in Written in Stone. The prefab also includes a power source pedestal. Link Fully useable audiograph for playing recorded sounds, first seen in the Accountant and Shadow of Northdale missions. A new full-featured scriptobject makes them easy to implement and control via spawnargs. Wiki Furniture assets Posh upholstered armchairs and sofas for the wealthiest nobles. Link A new high-detail grandfather clock with a working scriptobject and a mantle clock. Link A gothic-style cabinet. Link Office assets Including bundled stacks of paper, blueprints, a letter, crumpled paper, waste bins, an end table and an ornate table. Nautical assets Full-scale modular ship prefabs with interiors, allowing anyone to assemble a ship for a nautical mission in a matter of seconds. 1 merchant galleon and 2 smaller sailing ships are available. Link Link Link A large galleon ship wreck in 2 pieces for those sailors who have met an unfortunate end. Decorative assets An impressive multi-tiered wall fountain, first seen in the mansion in Noble Affairs. A new pair of marble lion statues. Link A standing stone menir with carved symbols on it, ideal for pagan missions. Link Stone pedestal with purple cloth for presenting valuable items. Textures High-resolution cobblestone textures for detailing the streets of TDM. Link Starry wallpaper. Lamps A set of 6 bronze vintage lamps has been added for particulary posh establishments. Link Thief-style charge post streetlamp. A new open-top carriage, the barouche. Link Miscellaneous other models, including: wall planter, 7 small "foliage" herbs, 2 mine carts, 6 shop signs, equippable feather duster and 5 decor plates * We fixed all loading warnings on all existing assets. This became possible after creating an automatic map generator which forces the engine to load all assets from every group. All the references to missing files are fixed too, which means a variety of assets have become available: Old noblewoman skin, plain mage robes skin, moor helmet, electrical arcs, stone window decals (5178), yellow banner skin (5563), wine barrel (Link), grass particles (5689), lampion lights and more graffiti decals. PROGRAMMING Under the hood, we updated third-party libraries, and moved to Visual Studio 2022. The "Debug With Inlines" configuration was split into "Debug Editable" (with hot-reload support) and "Debug Fast" (fastest debuggable). Marking the final step in transition to tdm_installer, the old tdm_update program is finally removed, with TDM packaging code extracted to standalone program.

Personally I can see some ancillary benefits from trying to move TDM from non-commercial-libre to true-libre, beyond getting off the FOSS community's naughty list. There are a fair few indie devs who have tried to make modernized Thief-likes. None of them have done half as good a job as this community. I think that is generally down to the engine. All the detection and movement systems take a lot of time to implement, which you guys have already paid down. Imagine if those indie devs had the option to use TDM as the base for their games. More of these games would be published, and more would be successful. And this in turn would grow the public knowledge base about working in Dark Radiant and TDM. Some of those devs might make their own public FMs. Some might contribute to the wiki and documentation. Some might contribute to project maintenance or even donate new features that they develop. Personally I would call this one of the bigger things that you could do to keep the project alive. It would definitely be a big project to bring the project assets into compliance or to fork off a compliant TDM-lite. A year ago I would have said it is impossible, but AI is changing things. It can make art and it can write code, and especially when it has a working example of the thing it is recreating to learn from. It still would not be easy, but at least possible. Let this be a lesson for creators to select your licensing carefully. It is not always easy to change after the fact.

@stgatilov: You also mentioned some relevant things here: "Maybe start with finding who are these "we" people who want to change the license to assets?..." So far I only know of myself. Others are free to agree or disagree. (It may be worth keeping in mind that the population of current TDM contributors is not a representative sample of the population of all potential contributors. Anyone who has already joined did so accepting the current conditions. If we offer options, more may want to join.) "As a programmer, I definitely do not want to maintain any additional packages." I understand. And since I can't do it myself it will never happen unless someone is willing to help. "And I do not want to get entangled into any kind of licensing questions." The strength of any collaboration can be evaluated by its ability to harness the talents and interests of each contributor. Any open source project, where everyone participates by their own free will, will have a hard time compelling any of its participants into doing something that does not interest them.

This is actually a rather old request that we encountered often shortly after going standalone in 2013. Hardcore GNU\Linux folks, especially those who use Debian, think that all open projects should use GPL v3 licenses with full "Libre" licensed content ( Creative Commons ). The goal is that open projects should be a shared resource that no single person or group regulates and can be used for ANY purpose without fear of prosecution or litigation. The primary motivation is "extreme paranoia". Any license restriction is seen as a potential trap that could unintentionally jeopardize contributors or users. For example: Imagine that I create a blog where I review darkmod missions and earn advertising revenue by visits. Through a very convoluted legal premise, the owner of non-free assets used in TDM could claim I owe them revenue since their license doesn't allow "any" commercial exploit of their work. Likewise, the owner of an internet cafe where the game is played might owe the asset owner their revenue. The ISP that made the asset available to it's subscribers might owe them too. The overarching theme is that copyright scope is not clearly defined and can be perverted to sabotage open projects. A fully Libre compliant project is immune to these risks. People who want their favorite projects to be easily available in GNU\Debian evangelize this type of license change. The problem is that most TDM contributors would strongly object to allowing their work to be used by 3rd party commercial projects, especially if those 3rd parties simply rebranded darkmod and sold it as a game in an app store. Even if that were a palatable eventuality, it would also make Embracer Group ( current owners of Thief IP ) more inclined to attempt a legal take-down of our project. A Libre version would need to be a fork that is maintained outside our community so that we can still clearly state that we prohibit all commercial usage. Debian and other similar distros need an easy way to allow users to install projects that are strictly non-commercial rather than forcing all open projects to permit 3rd parties to resell their work.

It is much easier to assume that we have single license for assets and all the contributors agree to distribute under it when they donate their stuff to the project. Otherwise you have to track metainformation for thousands of files, and surely there will be some errors made during tracking. If I don't care about the "TDM-libre" story, why should I bother?

Maybe start with finding who are these "we" people who want to change the license to assets?... As a programmer, I definitely do not want to maintain any additional packages. And I do not want to get entangled into any kind of licensing questions. Just that I understand: A license that forbids commercial usage is considered not free (CC-NC). A license that allows commercial usage but efficiently forbids making money from it is considered free (GPL and AGPL). Yes, this is a great distinction Now someone should come and say "but hey, you can sell your support for GPL product!" UPDATE: Well, I think there is also an approach when company provides reduced version under GPL and expanded version under commercial license (like Qt). As long as reduced version is reduced enough, it seems to work fine.

If someone wanted to tackle a Libre mission, the mission with the smallest size and fewest assets is "Closemouthed Shadows": https://www.thedarkmod.com/missiondetails/?internalName=closemouthed_shadows

Our assets are all under CC-NC. If that's not allowed under their system, then it's not allowed. I don't know how it gets around that.

I tested editing inline subtitle in tdm_stlucia.subs. That's a core file and I test on SVN, so all core assets are unpacked. It works. I edited it before triggering the sound, and then triggering it showed me the new subtitle text. I also checked in the code. Whenever some .subs file is detected as modified, all the subtitles are reloaded completely. What setup do you have specifically?

The devs didn't title this thread, and @datiswous said they're attempting to mislead people by using Russell's name and a retro style to make it resemble Thief, which is cynical. I grew up on forums like I'm sure anyone who likes a game from '98 did. I actually left the Discord immediately after joining it because it was more off-topic doom-posting than anything relevant to the mod. I thought the forums might be better, but it's mostly just grown men yelling at clouds and telling strangers how mature they are, and a few brave souls actually developing anything. Depressing place, I'll just stick to enjoying new missions every 6 months without an account.

True, but, 1. this thread is called "Western stealth FPS with Stephen Russell", and, 2. nothing you said changes anything for me. The gameplay still doesn't look like something I'd enjoy. And, if you really think this forum is cynical, then you don't visit forums much. Actually, the majority of the users are are pretty mature, unlike in other forums.