The Main Man

[oDDity]

We should obviously discuss the main character's apperance before I go off and unilaterally model him.

SH already has art done, but he didn't consult anyone either, so we may not all be happy wiht it.

First thing we should clear up is that this is not Garrett, the only similarities are the hood, the bow and the blackjack. This guy has a different personality, background and appearence.

I like the hood and mask idea, I've used it before on thief characters, but I was thinking of doing the full cloak as well. I've never really liked the look of a hood without a cloak. It's not a problem since we he isn't an in-game charcater anyway.

There's just something about a full length cloak that looks hard and sexy and mysterious.

How armoured should he be?

He's obviously not a fighter, but he is aware that the guards where he's going are heavily armed and good fighters, so he'd what some sort of protection for a worst case senario. I think hardened leather armour would be a wise precation. I was thinking of making him more like a D&D thief charcters with his leather armour and cloak, kind of leet looking, but not totally fantasy.

I'm attaching various pictures I've found of various items I thought might be good for ideas. If anyone else has any pics they think would be useful the post them as well.

[oDDity]

...

[sparhawk]

What I really think is not neccessary is to have a well defined face on our Thief. I always liked it in T1/T2 that you barely saw the face of Garrett. Don't remember if it was shown at all right now. I think that this added a lot to the myteriousness of Garret. And it also makes sense for a Thief. Not good for busines running areound with a face everybody seems to know. IMO that was rather obscene in T3 that they flaunted Garret in such a way.

[oDDity]

NO worries there, you'll only be able to see his eyes and that's it. Even they will be shaded with a hood.

[sparhawk]

Perfect!

[BlackThief]

looking forward to this, but what's up with 'my' houseguard?

[Springheel]

SH already has art done, but he didn't consult anyone either, so we may not all be happy wiht it.

 

S'cuse me? I don't force concepts down people's throats. It was discussed and approved long before you got here. If people would like some changes after living with it for a while, that's fine.

 

I've never really liked the look of a hood without a cloak. It's not a problem since we he isn't an in-game charcater anyway.

There's just something about a full length cloak that looks hard and sexy and mysterious.

 

True, although a cloak is not at all practical for someone sneaking around in an indoor environment, nor for someone who gets chased a lot. It certainly would be appropriate for outdoor cutscenes though.

 

e's obviously not a fighter, but he is aware that the guards where he's going are heavily armed and good fighters, so he'd what some sort of protection for a worst case senario. I think hardened leather armour would be a wise precation. I was thinking of making him more like a D&D thief charcters with his leather armour and cloak, kind of leet looking, but not totally fantasy.

 

That was exactly my approach.

[pakmannen]

since we he isn't an in-game charcater anyway.

What about mirrors? In-game cutscenes? Aren't we doing this the way Doom 3 did?

[sparhawk]

Mirrors should be in, so we will need a model for that. I hope that we will have true bathrooms and such which includes mirrors of course, as D3 supports this.

[oDDity]

S'cuse me? I don't force concepts down people's throats. It was discussed and approved long before you got here. If people would like some changes after living with it for a while, that's fine.

Yeah, but most of the guys here now were not here then. I'm going with the same basic concept as yours, I just thoght it would be nice to give everyone an opinion first.

It is the main charcater, after all.

 

We don't want to get into an argument about a cloak not being practical, when he wears those hobnailed, tapdancing boots. Practicality is obviously not an issue wth him.

 

THe model can be high res for the cutscences and mirrors though, so getting some basic deformations in the cloak should not be a problem, as long as he isn't breakdancing or anything. I though we didn't like in-game cutscence and prefered movies anyway. To use Spar's usual argument, the original thief games didn't have cutscenes and they are still really popular today with a big fanbase, so in-game cutscenes are not important.

Another point is that all the THief concept art showed Garrett with a cloak, but he never had a cloak in the game.

[Springheel]

Yeah, but most of the guys here now were not here then. I'm going with the same basic concept as yours, I just thoght it would be nice to give everyone an opinion first.

 

Fair enough. And I agree with you that a cloak is definitely cool. And this may be a case where coolness trumps practicality. I'm on the fence about whether to include one, honestly. It looks great and is appropriate for outdoors and in the city. On the other hand, cloaks knock things over and get caught in doors, not to mention providing a ready hand-hold for people chasing you.

 

We'll see what everyone else says about it.

[Fingernail]

I think everyone would agree that Springheel's concept is perfectly acceptable.

 

If it ain't broke, why fix it?

[New Horizon]

I'm happy with Springers concept art as well. Some of the above pics may come in handy for some details but, as you said, you're still going with the same basic concept.

[Fingernail]

Yeah, use the basic concept as you said. Nice source art btw.

[pakmannen]

I though we didn't like in-game cutscence and prefered movies anyway. To use Spar's usual argument, the original thief games didn't have cutscenes and they are still really popular today with a big fanbase, so in-game cutscenes are not important.

Another point is that all the THief concept art showed Garrett with a cloak, but he never had a cloak in the game.

We might use movies, but we aren't the only one's who are going to use this mod (hopefully). I think in-game cutscenes (with a grain/sepia-filter overlayed) could be a great way for people to get briefings in their missions, without them having any Premiere/After-effects skills (which most of them don't have).

[Ishtvan]

I like the idea of the leather frog for the sword. If we're making the sword reflective metal though (and not painted black), do you think he'd use a longer leather sheathe (or 'frog,' not sure how long frogs can be) to hide all that highly reflective metal when sheathed?

[oDDity]

looking forward to this, but what's up with 'my' houseguard?

Since I was supposed to finish that model last week I've been busy. I was doing the elite guard concept, then figuring out the rope for Domarius, then making the player arms an bow, then getting together some references for this model, and I'm currently doing the bow and blackjack animaitons.

I'll finish the house guard before I start on the thief though

 

 

Ishtvan, those are good points, but if we start getting into this realism thing, then he shouln't be wearing loud shoes either.

 

The reason I'm doing the frog and not a sheath, is because it's easier to animate - or at least when he draws and replaces the sword its'll be too quick to see that it is cutting through the frog straps. If there was a sheath you would see it cutting through. I'm goign to do this frog idea foe all the weapons. For the hammers, they can have a ring holder on a baldrick.

Springheel pointed out that there is no game in existence where players draw their weapons out of sheathes, and theere are technical animation reasons for it.

[sparhawk]

Modelling the sheath with physics should solve that problem as long as the sword really fits into the sheath. But I guess that "frog" is also sufficient.

[Ishtvan]

Ishtvan, those are good points, but if we start getting into this realism thing, then he shouln't be wearing loud shoes either.

 

The reason I'm doing the frog and not a sheath, is because it's easier to animate - or at least when he draws and replaces the sword its'll be too quick to see that it is cutting through the frog straps. If there was a sheath you would see it cutting through. I'm goign to do this frog idea foe all the weapons. For the hammers, they can have a ring holder on a baldrick.

Cool, thanks for answering that concern. Seems like the frog is the best way to go then.

 

I'll just be crouching in the shadows, working on my 3rd party "black painted sword" texture after we release the first version.

 

Also, a small part of me wants to suggest replacing the loud shoes with cloth-wrapped moccasins or something, but I can deal with copying Thief's tap dancing shoes for sound FX / gameplay purposes.

Edited January 24, 2005 by Ishtvan

[oDDity]

Well I also can't see a probelm with making the sword drawing animation so it properly comes out of a sheath, but it is strange that no game ever does it - even Gothic wth its great animations just had the swords hanging bare at the hip or on someone's back. There must be some unforeseen problem with it. We could have a blackened blade anyway, it's pretty cool, and I think a frog is better looking that a boring old sheath anyway.

[sparhawk]

IMO the sheath animation is simply not worth the effort. It might be that there are some issues with it or it might be that drawing the sword form a sheath means that the character has to hold the sheath while drawing, which would add another delay to the animation.

[Domarius]

HEY GUYS

 

Cloak has been discussed and decided. If you want to rebuke the desicion, read here first.

 

http://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?showt...indpost&p=14844

[oDDity]

It's not a problem, the cloak can be easily attached/detached where necessary. It's probably best we don't see him in-game with a cloak, since it saves having to animate the damn thing.