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TDM Is The Now And The Future

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According to Briareos H at TLG

 

NoFrag, a reputable french gaming site specializing in first person games, published this a few hours ago in their rumors section. They are usually very trustworthy.

 

Eidos-Montréal are currently inviting select people under NDA for a test drive of Thief 4 on X360. A few snoopers contacted us to share their experience:

 

A large part of the game is played in third-person: mantling, movement and even archery. The game goes in first person mode when triggering a mechanism, when a reading a note and more importantly when using the "sneak" toggle: this mode has body awareness and blackjacking.

 

The two levels that our informers played were extremely linear and 90% of the progression was done using third-person view, but it's difficult to jump to conclusions after only one hour of play. After all, it would be very surprising that 90% of a Thief game is spent not sneaking!

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My thoughts:

 

There's no point (or reason) to be upset about this. Thief 4 will provide a single-player story and coherent experience. TDM provides an on-going experience through fan missions. They are different in this way. I am actually kind of glad that EM probably isn't going all out to make the game user-modifiable. TDM has a head-start and will likely have more FMs. This is good because I use Linux and I'm sure Thief 4 will never run here.

 

I'll still check out Thief 4 if it scores favorably, but I won't run out and buy it like I did with Thief 3 and DXIW. That was a mistake.

 

I suppose if TDM wasn't around and maturing I would be upset. After seeing so many PC game devs sell out to consoles though, I can't pretend to be surprised.

Edited by lost_soul

--- War does not decide who is right, war decides who is left.

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The two levels that our informers played were extremely linear and 90% of the progression was done using third-person view, but it's difficult to jump to conclusions after only one hour of play. After all, it would be very surprising that 90% of a Thief game is spent not sneaking!

 

Heh.. Yep, that is the casual gaming reaching its tendrils towards proper gaming. Dumb down everything and make sure it looks good.

 

If the game houses cannot create proper games, then the community has to create their own games for themselves.


Clipper

-The mapper's best friend.

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Thanks for the heads-up. I am suddenly even more happy TDM exists. And...

 

The two levels that our informers played were extremely linear and 90% of the progression was done using third-person view, but it's difficult to jump to conclusions after only one hour of play.

Difficult? The Thief community manages it very-very easily, and not entirely without reason. Just watch how this will go over at TTLG. ^_^


Come the time of peril, did the ground gape, and did the dead rest unquiet 'gainst us. Our bands of iron and hammers of stone prevailed not, and some did doubt the Builder's plan. But the seals held strong, and the few did triumph, and the doubters were lain into the foundations of the new sanctum. -- Collected letters of the Smith-in-Exile, Civitas Approved

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The real fun starts when it's released and players new to the series start registering. I've got my deckchair and hazmat suite ready.

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The real fun starts when it's released and players new to the series start registering. I've got my deckchair and hazmat suite ready.

 

*Tels dons flame-proof underwear* I guess I just need to hold the bag of popcorn out in front of me, the popping will be done automatically. Swell!


"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man." -- George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950)

 

"Remember: If the game lets you do it, it's not cheating." -- Xarax

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I have to admit I'll buy Thief 4 on day one, no matter what. That's just a fact. Even if previews and such say it sucks big fat donkey, I'll still be buying it on day one


shadowdark50.gif keep50.gif

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Oh man, I can't buy it on day one....not so much based on reviews, but rather based on what they do with the game.

 

As it stands, it sounds like they're taking it down the same road as TDS...third person...linearity...etc, etc. Still, maybe it's too early...but if the dude was able to play a couple of levels and it was linear at this stage...well, can't say I'm as invested in 'official' Thief as I was years ago. TDS killed that.

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I have to admit I'll buy Thief 4 on day one, no matter what. That's just a fact. Even if previews and such say it sucks big fat donkey, I'll still be buying it on day one

Yes, that's just how it is. I am not expecting a great Thief game, so I will be happy with a good sneaking experience, 3rd person or not. TDM, TDP and TMA can remain the source of fan missions until the Sun goes out or people finally tire of it.


Come the time of peril, did the ground gape, and did the dead rest unquiet 'gainst us. Our bands of iron and hammers of stone prevailed not, and some did doubt the Builder's plan. But the seals held strong, and the few did triumph, and the doubters were lain into the foundations of the new sanctum. -- Collected letters of the Smith-in-Exile, Civitas Approved

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I've never had too many hopes in T4. After all it will be a console title and as such, it will be limited, simple and highly unmoddable as every other console title. That preview you posted finally fortified my asumptions.

 

Still, although being a consumer good for the stupid casual gamer masses, it might be fun to play it once to see the story evolve, so I'll be getting it too eventually.

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If it is console crap, I ain't touchin' it, even if it is console crap with a label 'thief' on it.

 

Yep. -_-


Clipper

-The mapper's best friend.

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I learned from George Lucas that it's quite possible to ruin the memory of something good by experiencing a new, crappy version of it. Unfortunately I can't remove the memory of the Star Wars prequels from my brain, but at least I won't make the same mistake with Thi4f.

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I wish games got demos released beforehand, forcing publishers to get developers actually making a quality game that people want to buy.

 

This "hey lets release media and generate loads of interest'" hype-and-dump mentality is killing the commercial PC game industry, yet strangely enough most likely why indy/opensource games are actually not doing too badly these days. Still, seems such a waste of time, talent and effort to just trick people into buying something they might not want... but pre-order whores will never accept that ;/ Driving piracy up then crying that people don't buy your games on the PC... a great feedback loop if only the ends connected.

 

"We're making <exactly what you wanted> and basing it on <the old game> to avoid disappointment! so you fans will love it, really. It's such a great game and I would totally be saying this if my paycheck didn't depend on it."

I sometimes wonder how people that pre-order off screenshots or dev talks, don't fall for pyramid schemes every second day...

 

PS. If you deposit cash into my account I will transfer double the amount back in a weeks time as a show of good faith, I am also a Nigerian prince.

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I lost interest in thief 4 when that troll made a home for themselves in the eidos idea's for thief 4 forum, and seem to back everything that no one wanted to see in the game, then checking the game makers finding the troll listed in their friends list.

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On the bright side, this time the game may actually work on multi-core processors without clumsy workarounds. Heaven forbid they release a patch to fix these issues for the older games.


--- War does not decide who is right, war decides who is left.

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I lost interest in thief 4 when that troll made a home for themselves in the eidos idea's for thief 4 forum, and seem to back everything that no one wanted to see in the game, then checking the game makers finding the troll listed in their friends list.

 

Heavy Rain...or one of the others? lol

 

After TDS, I just can't give my money to the company if the game is yet another step removed from the Thief series. I don't want to encourage them to keep making bad games. Not that I know Thief 4 is officially going to be bad, but I have a pretty strong feeling that it's going to be pretty far from "Thief".

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"We're making <exactly what you wanted> and basing it on <the old game> to avoid disappointment! so you fans will love it, really. It's such a great game and I would totally be saying this if my paycheck didn't depend on it."

That's such a depressing way to look at game development nowadays, and probably totally justified as well. Makes you wonder why they bother trashing existing franchises if they can just make a clone of CoD or some other successful formula instead. Raping a fanbase often seems to be a profitable substitute for real creativity.

 

Reminds me of the recent news about a live action version of Akira that's in the works, possibly starring Zac 'High School Musical' Efron. I was all about to go Angry Internet Man on all the blogosphericles until I found out they were likely setting the film in New York, at which point my anger fuse burnt out.

 

Thi4f... I probably will end up buying it, but if there's forced third person I'll hate playing through much of it. An image on TTLG made me laugh, and then I cried. sad.gif

 

 

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I wish games got demos released beforehand, forcing publishers to get developers actually making a quality game that people want to buy.

I bought Thief because I played the demo from a magazine CD supplement and it was seven kinds of amazing. Since I wasn't much into FPS games at the time, I might have missed it completely (at least for a while).

 

"We're making <exactly what you wanted> and basing it on <the old game> to avoid disappointment! so you fans will love it, really. It's such a great game and I would totally be saying this if my paycheck didn't depend on it."

It could be worse. The makers of the most recent edition of Dungeons&Dragons (the paper and pencil game, not the MMORPG) basically hyped their product by talking down the preceding one as outdated and broken. And somewhat surprisingly, a lot of people completely bought into that rhetoric. Imagine that scenario with Thief.

"First person was not fun. How can you see the character's environment in first person?"

"But I liked first person. It was immersive, and you could just look around."

"But third person view has been proven to be way much more fun, while the designers received a lot of complaints about always staying in first person from the fans. And they know their job, that's why they are designers. Sure enough, if you like your games outdated and broken, whatevs. We are not judging you. We are sure you can have a lot of fun "immersing yourself" in your outdated games. Which suck."

 

Ugh. <_<

Edited by Melan

Come the time of peril, did the ground gape, and did the dead rest unquiet 'gainst us. Our bands of iron and hammers of stone prevailed not, and some did doubt the Builder's plan. But the seals held strong, and the few did triumph, and the doubters were lain into the foundations of the new sanctum. -- Collected letters of the Smith-in-Exile, Civitas Approved

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Reminds me of the recent news about a live action version of Akira that's in the works, possibly starring Zac 'High School Musical' Efron. I was all about to go Angry Internet Man on all the blogosphericles until I found out they were likely setting the film in New York, at which point my anger fuse burnt out.

That's just so absurd. (Although Akira was best as the epic comic series. The anime, as great as it is, is already a simplification of the original version where much of the action started where the animated ended).


Come the time of peril, did the ground gape, and did the dead rest unquiet 'gainst us. Our bands of iron and hammers of stone prevailed not, and some did doubt the Builder's plan. But the seals held strong, and the few did triumph, and the doubters were lain into the foundations of the new sanctum. -- Collected letters of the Smith-in-Exile, Civitas Approved

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I bought Thief because I played the demo from a magazine CD supplement and it was seven kinds of amazing. Since I wasn't much into FPS games at the time, I might have missed it completely (at least for a while).

Hah, I remember playing TDP and enjoying it but not remembering the name, at the time I wasn't very interested in PC's let alone gaming. A year and a bit elapsed when I found myself installing the TMA demo, not knowing anymore more than the logo looked cool from the front of the PC-Zone(*sniff*) CD. That demo sold me harder than any marketing campaign ever could and provided more playing time than most current retail games, not for lack of alternatives either.

 

Another bygone bonus of the pre-retail demo was the differences and changes that were made, always subtle and usually missed, it was like a little 'thanks' for being a fan... that or they just like to play 'spot the difference' with the public. This was specially true of games like HL1 where there were a number of demos, most containing maps which were not part of the retail game. You had to put your best foot forward but at the same time it also gave you a chance to test the water a bit, sure some where beta quality; But in the same standing bugs and such might scare some off, but the same fans would buy the game on release day if they knew the content and gameplay was solid, even if there was a bit of crashing or whatever.

 

Basically hyped their product by talking down the preceding one as outdated and broken. And somewhat surprisingly, a lot of people completely bought into that rhetoric. Imagine that scenario with Thief.

Yeah... that pisses me right off.

 

I've never felt myself thinking "Wow, this game would be so much better with those console features", however I don't know how often I've thought the opposite, but it's almost certainty about every time I play a game. It's one of the things that pleased me to see ID mentioning that players can chose to play with health-pickups in RAGE, a small change which I hope will be well received if it makes it into retail.

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That's just so absurd. (Although Akira was best as the epic comic series. The anime, as great as it is, is already a simplification of the original version where much of the action started where the animated ended).

Heh, seems you can never please all the fans. smile.gif

 

Hah, I remember playing TDP and enjoying it but not remembering the name, at the time I wasn't very interested in PC's let alone gaming. A year and a bit elapsed when I found myself installing the TMA demo, not knowing anymore more than the logo looked cool from the front of the PC-Zone(*sniff*) CD. That demo sold me harder than any marketing campaign ever could and provided more playing time than most current retail games, not for lack of alternatives either.

I came across a demo CD containing Heretic II, Populous the beginning and TDP (what a day!). I ended up buying the first two some time later when I finally had my own computer but it was Thief I looked forward to the most due to the incredible atmosphere of the demo. I asked for Thief for my birthday and was surprised to find a copy of TMA (which I didn't even know about before then). I only got half way through before running out to buy Thief Gold so as not to ruin the story.

 

Agree with what you say about the differences in demos. Half-Life Uplink was the demo I played before the full game. I still look back on it fondly as it was completely different to the actual single player campaign, whereas most demos you forget about since they're usually the first level of the game.

 

 

 

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I first played TDP on a PC that we put together from scrounged parts. I was a young teen at the time. At first, all of the textures were completely white and for a time I thought this was normal. Then I got rid of the Permedia 2 card I was given for free and replaced it with a Voodoo 3. It wasn't as pretty as Unreal, but man was the atmosphere perfect! I still remember the Bonehord in the middle of the night and finding that little "surprise". Also, the apparitions used to creep me out... just the sounds they made!


--- War does not decide who is right, war decides who is left.

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You were lucky to even have a 3D card to play TDP on; I played it on a P166 in software rendering mode, where the main reason for not getting into a sword fight was not because the guards were too tough or skilled, but because the single-figure frame rate made combat impossible.

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Goddamn it. Are they really about to mess this up?

 

I am saddened by this, truth or not. It really does seem like in this day and age no one is willing to make a game that's not an action title, or leans towards being an action title at least. Guess they are too afraid that if their game isn't a cookie-cutter FPS with a steep-parallax-mapping shader on the intro menu it just won't sell.

 

I weep for you, Thief. I weep for you. -_-

 

But on the plus side, I'm not really opposed to change (Like T3, didn't have any issues with how that played, just a number of other quirks brought it to a buckle). but this is too damn much change and reeks of the whole: "Oohh! We need to make this thing(game) flash in at least 10 different colors each second or the youth of today will lose interest."

 

Daaaaamn right, I blame the youth of today, damn you and your incapability to handle the great man (or game) that is Thief!

 

Anyway. I hope for the best to come out of this. If that's possible.

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