Jump to content
The Dark Mod Forums

TDM Is The Now And The Future


Aprilsister

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 90
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

The Earth is degenerating these days. Bribery and corruption abound.

Children no longer mind their parents, every man wants to write a book,

and it is evident that the end of the world is fast approaching.

- Assyrian Stone Tablet, 2800BC

-_-

 

Come the time of peril, did the ground gape, and did the dead rest unquiet 'gainst us. Our bands of iron and hammers of stone prevailed not, and some did doubt the Builder's plan. But the seals held strong, and the few did triumph, and the doubters were lain into the foundations of the new sanctum. -- Collected letters of the Smith-in-Exile, Civitas Approved

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I blame rap music.

 

Jagged Alliance - Reloaded, the JA2 remake which is being faithfully recreated (screenshots)... or well, it was until todays news.

 

 

The “Plan & Go” system removes the turn-based structure. If the player wants to react to an incident, he can pause the game at any time or allow the game to pause automatically by carrying out a particular activity (e.g. if a mercenary has run out of ammunition).

 

 

It's gonna be better Melan, you hear that? BETTER!

Oh boy, you fans out there. You're gonna love it - it's gonna make the game you enjoyed because it was a niche thing SO MUCH BETTER without it. (Nevermind you could disable it in JA2, but no one did because it was crap)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I blame rap music.

 

Jagged Alliance - Reloaded, the JA2 remake which is being faithfully recreated (screenshots)... or well, it was until todays news.

 

 

The “Plan & Go” system removes the turn-based structure. If the player wants to react to an incident, he can pause the game at any time or allow the game to pause automatically by carrying out a particular activity (e.g. if a mercenary has run out of ammunition).

 

 

It's gonna be better Melan, you hear that? BETTER!

Oh boy, you fans out there. You're gonna love it - it's gonna make the game you enjoyed because it was a niche thing SO MUCH BETTER without it. (Nevermind you could disable it in JA2, but no one did because it was crap)

 

Oh boy. That is like taking out the "Light Gem" in Thief/TDM and saying "it can be renabled if you wish".

"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man." -- George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950)

 

"Remember: If the game lets you do it, it's not cheating." -- Xarax

Link to comment
Share on other sites

GRARGH! :wacko: (said the JA2 fan in me)

Come the time of peril, did the ground gape, and did the dead rest unquiet 'gainst us. Our bands of iron and hammers of stone prevailed not, and some did doubt the Builder's plan. But the seals held strong, and the few did triumph, and the doubters were lain into the foundations of the new sanctum. -- Collected letters of the Smith-in-Exile, Civitas Approved

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If it is console crap, I ain't touchin' it, even if it is console crap with a label 'thief' on it.

Yep. -_-

 

 

I learned from George Lucas that it's quite possible to ruin the memory of something good by experiencing a new, crappy version of it. Unfortunately I can't remove the memory of the Star Wars prequels from my brain, but at least I won't make the same mistake with Thi4f.

 

Agreed.. and... agreed!

System: Mageia Linux Cauldron, aka Mageia 8

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nah, even if it is a terrible game, I would still like it to be released. I always have the ability to ignore it and not play it. I was one of the guys who waited for Duke Nukem forever since 1998. A bad game can still be extremely

--- War does not decide who is right, war decides who is left.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

I blame rap music.

 

Jagged Alliance - Reloaded, the JA2 remake which is being faithfully recreated (screenshots)... or well, it was until todays news.

 

 

The "Plan & Go" system removes the turn-based structure. If the player wants to react to an incident, he can pause the game at any time or allow the game to pause automatically by carrying out a particular activity (e.g. if a mercenary has run out of ammunition).

 

 

It's gonna be better Melan, you hear that? BETTER!

Oh boy, you fans out there. You're gonna love it - it's gonna make the game you enjoyed because it was a niche thing SO MUCH BETTER without it. (Nevermind you could disable it in JA2, but no one did because it was crap)

 

 

If they just recreate vanilla JA2 with better graphics then they will loose to the fanpatch 1.13. Same like Thief series now. They really have to show something good and new to outclass determined fans.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well it really does matter. If the code is sanctioned, the community can set up an official repository and begin working on it. We could have an eduke32 or a ioquake3, but for Thief! That would be better than any modern game they can produce.

 

I would also finally be able to execute the following command on my windows partitions, (DO NOT DO THIS!) dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sdxname. It will ERASE the partition by filling it with zeros.

Edited by lost_soul

--- War does not decide who is right, war decides who is left.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well it really does matter. If the code is sanctioned, the community can set up an official repository and begin working on it. We could have an eduke32 or a ioquake3, but for Thief! That would be better than any modern game they can produce.

 

I think the code will be put to use whether they sanction it or not. lol The community found the code for them back in February...trustingly handed it over to Eidos...and they haven't uttered a peep to the folks who found it for them since.

 

The code is 10 years old. They didn't even know where it was. Maybe they'll throw a hissy fit about it, but it would be pretty lame on their part if they did.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think the code will be put to use whether they sanction it or not. lol The community found the code for them back in February...trustingly handed it over to Eidos...and they haven't uttered a peep to the folks who found it for them since.

 

The code is 10 years old. They didn't even know where it was. Maybe they'll throw a hissy fit about it, but it would be pretty lame on their part if they did.

 

Well, I can't believe all the length we go to avoid copyright issues (don't mention the name G, or K or whatever), and then someone just uploads the original source code (where copyright protection is esp. strong) and just distributes it or the results compiled from it. And gets away with it!

 

It probably doesn't matter what fans do with the code at their home, but whoever would hosting it could be hit with C&D letters very very easily. All it takes one DCMA complaint to the hoster, and off the stuff goes. (You could host it in Sweden or somewhere else, but that only makes things complicated, it doesn't really solve them). I wouldn't bet anything on Eidos *not* doing anything against it - even if they don't do it for years, you can never be really sure, as it is their "property" and their rules.

 

And don't tell me about "sane" reactions from corporations, we all know the unbelievable (e..g "batshit insane") stuff they do all the time. IMO it comes down to wishful thinking ("oh surely they wouldn't hurt their fans?") and putting your work on the whims of a corporation with shareholders.

"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man." -- George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950)

 

"Remember: If the game lets you do it, it's not cheating." -- Xarax

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The top thing corporations care about shareholder value (as it was so charmingly put by Some Random Suit: “We were disappointed to hear Activision’s new head of publishing flatly deny the company’s plans to charge for multiplayer ... Considering that each of the publicly traded publishers exists to maximize shareholder value, we view their reticence to monetize multiplayer as a betrayal of shareholder trust.”). That means they will not blink an eye before squashing something that threatens their revenue stream, but they will not devote costly lawyer time to go against something they perceive as marginal. Let's face it: if we add up all the active Thief fans who still play fan missions, I would be surprised if that number was above 4-500 people.

 

So, it is a risk - but probably not a very large one.

Come the time of peril, did the ground gape, and did the dead rest unquiet 'gainst us. Our bands of iron and hammers of stone prevailed not, and some did doubt the Builder's plan. But the seals held strong, and the few did triumph, and the doubters were lain into the foundations of the new sanctum. -- Collected letters of the Smith-in-Exile, Civitas Approved

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, I can't believe all the length we go to avoid copyright issues (don't mention the name G, or K or whatever)

 

It's a completely different scenario, we're building TDM in a competitors game engine.

 

...and then someone just uploads the original source code (where copyright protection is esp. strong) and just distributes it or the results compiled from it. And gets away with it!

 

Nothing has been compiled.

 

Whoever it was bought a hard drive from a dream cast development kit, or some such thing...and it also came with a CD. The CD had the Thief 2 source, System Shock 2 and Deep Cover...which may just have code from the Siege engine....LGS's next iteration of Dark Engine.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

The CD had the Thief 2 source, System Shock 2 and Deep Cover...which may just have code from the Siege engine....LGS's next iteration of Dark Engine.

 

Is it possible to find out if the Siege engine managed to have less severe limitations than the Dark Engine? Looking at the screenshots at somethingstrange.com, I can't help but think that the graphics still looked worse than the first Deus Ex game, which was released in 2000. (Work on Deep Cover supposedly began in 1999, so it's safe to assume that the Siege Engine is newer than the Unreal Engine used in DX1.)

My Eigenvalue is bigger than your Eigenvalue.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The top thing corporations care about shareholder value (as it was so charmingly put by Some Random Suit: “We were disappointed to hear Activision’s new head of publishing flatly deny the company’s plans to charge for multiplayer ... Considering that each of the publicly traded publishers exists to maximize shareholder value, we view their reticence to monetize multiplayer as a betrayal of shareholder trust.”). That means they will not blink an eye before squashing something that threatens their revenue stream, but they will not devote costly lawyer time to go against something they perceive as marginal. Let's face it: if we add up all the active Thief fans who still play fan missions, I would be surprised if that number was above 4-500 people.

 

So, it is a risk - but probably not a very large one.

 

It is still "wishful thinking" - it doesn't really matter whether the risk is small or large, it is:

 

* wrong (copyright law is very specific in such cases)

* you are still playing lottery that your project will be shut down at the whim of someone who wouldn't even blink spending 1000 $US on laywer feeds.

"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man." -- George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950)

 

"Remember: If the game lets you do it, it's not cheating." -- Xarax

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's a completely different scenario, we're building TDM in a competitors game engine.

 

Exactly, our scenario is "safe", while "get leaked sourecode, distribute it" or "get leaked source code, distribute binaries build from it" is not safe at all.

 

I fear people here easily confuse "wikileaks leaks diplomatic cables" with "thief fan leaks source code", the first is clearly (except for some dumb people) legal, the second is never legal. You can't "leak" source code. Either you distribute it, or not, and the right to do the first is exclusively given to the copyright holder.

 

The only safe scenario I can see is that projects like "odpt" (or whatever the name of the open thief engine is) get pushed forward because they can now emulate the game much better. Alternatively, they could get permission from the copyright holder (no, inactivity is not permission).

 

At this point the only hope is that Eido somehow gives permission or "sells" the sourcecode, or publishes it under a new license themselves.

 

Nothing has been compiled.

 

People at ttlg alread talk about setting up an SVN repository and bringing out a new engine with fixes.

 

Whoever it was bought a hard drive from a dream cast development kit, or some such thing...and it also came with a CD. The CD had the Thief 2 source, System Shock 2 and Deep Cover...which may just have code from the Siege engine....LGS's next iteration of Dark Engine.

 

The story is very amazing, yes, but it doesn't help thief fans so far at all.

 

Seeing how many people simply want to include stock thief assets into a TDM FM (f.i. voices), tho, I think "thief fans" won't care about the legal angle at all, tho.

 

Anyway, this discussion should be really moved from this thread (about TDM) to its own thread, as TDM has nothing to do with T2 source at all.

"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man." -- George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950)

 

"Remember: If the game lets you do it, it's not cheating." -- Xarax

Link to comment
Share on other sites

People at ttlg alread talk about setting up an SVN repository and bringing out a new engine with fixes.

 

Seeing how many people simply want to include stock thief assets into a TDM FM (f.i. voices), tho, I think "thief fans" won't care about the legal angle at all, tho.

I agree along these lines - I understand that the folks at TTLG are terribly excited to finally hold the holy grail in their hands, but I really do hope they don't burn their fingers handling that. Pushing the source code to sourceforge or somewhere else is just asking for trouble, I do hope they plan their steps properly. Some members there have really romantic views about copyright (bullshit along the lines of "the sources are belonging to us Thief fans" and "no one will care if we do it" and "they can't technically stop us because it's the internet and no one will try"). It's all very easy to discuss in an internet forum, up to the point where one of them suddenly finds a C&D order in their mailbox. Let's hope it doesn't come that far.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recent Status Updates

    • nbohr1more

      TDM 15th Anniversary Contest is now active! Please declare your participation: https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/22413-the-dark-mod-15th-anniversary-contest-entry-thread/
       
      · 0 replies
    • JackFarmer

      @TheUnbeholden
      You cannot receive PMs. Could you please be so kind and check your mailbox if it is full (or maybe you switched off the function)?
      · 1 reply
    • OrbWeaver

      I like the new frob highlight but it would nice if it was less "flickery" while moving over objects (especially barred metal doors).
      · 4 replies
    • nbohr1more

      Please vote in the 15th Anniversary Contest Theme Poll
       
      · 0 replies
    • Ansome

      Well then, it's been about a week since I released my first FM and I must say that I was very pleasantly surprised by its reception. I had expected half as much interest in my short little FM as I received and even less when it came to positive feedback, but I am glad that the aspects of my mission that I put the most heart into were often the most appreciated. It was also delightful to read plenty of honest criticism and helpful feedback, as I've already been given plenty of useful pointers on improving my brushwork, level design, and gameplay difficulty.
      I've gotten back into the groove of chipping away at my reading and game list, as well as the endless FM catalogue here, but I may very well try my hand at the 15th anniversary contest should it materialize. That is assuming my eyes are ready for a few more months of Dark Radiant's bright interface while burning the midnight oil, of course!
      · 4 replies
×
×
  • Create New...