TDM Beginners Contest

[Sir Taffsalot]

I found creating my own buildings very difficult. For my first map I think I just searched for pictures of old buildings on the web and when I found one I liked I made my own version in DR. I now have a pretty good idea of how the style of various old buildings work. I'm still using pictures of old buildings on the web but I'm now more confident in adding my own spin on them such as adding extra detail here and there. Hopefully as I continue I will eventually be able to create my own buildings from my own imagination. I assume this is normal for people who have no previous knowledge on historical architecture?

 

I'd keep it pretty simple for a first map. Once the basics are mastered an ability for adding extra flair and detail will come naturally after.

[DeTeEff]

I found creating my own buildings very difficult. For my first map I think I just searched for pictures of old buildings on the web and when I found one I liked I made my own version in DR. I now have a pretty good idea of how the style of various old buildings work. I'm still using pictures of old buildings on the web but I'm now more confident in adding my own spin on them such as adding extra detail here and there. Hopefully as I continue I will eventually be able to create my own buildings from my own imagination. I assume this is normal for people who have no previous knowledge on historical architecture?

 

I'd keep it pretty simple for a first map. Once the basics are mastered an ability for adding extra flair and detail will come naturally after.

 

I find it very difficult to create realistic looking architecture. No matter how many resource pictures I check, it's difficult to find a way to make them fit nicely into the city section I've built...I've gone for a quite dumb solution for the city parts of my current mission but I'll have to persevere. It was the first mission I started in DR and it won't see the light of completion in quite some tile...And I don't want to throw this away, though sometimes I just want to start over...

 

One important note I guess often is eminent; The work of others almost always looks more interesting because it's the first time you see it. You don't know every cranny and nook of it...

[Sir Taffsalot]

One important note I guess often is eminent; The work of others almost always looks more interesting because it's the first time you see it. You don't know every cranny and nook of it...

 

Very true. Sometimes I look at other peoples work and I feel like just giving up. lol

[SiyahParsomen]

You are motivating freshmans very well.

[Sir Taffsalot]

haha I don't think my career as a motivational speaker is about to take off any time soon.

[RPGista]

Thanks guys, there is a lot more to show, but I dont really want to spoil the mission too much.

 

Yes, many historic buildings are particularly hard to model in 3d, let alone with mostly brushes, so simplification must occour, but at the same time, I find that references are a must to keep track of the "feel" of the city landscape or the overall coherence of a building, things like materials used, finishes and architectural language (openings composition, for example). There are many differences, between medieval and victorian architecture for example, nothing really THAT crucial to gameplay, but still interesting if you want to achieve a more authentic feel, without actually more work besides the research (you can either model the windows as you please, or based on a real example).

 

The aesthetic complexity of victorian architecture

 

Pretty much a gothic/medieval building (functionality and economy above all)

 

I have some nice drawings and layouts of romanesque religious buildings by the way, if any one is interested.

 

Just as an update, I would say I'm 30% done geometry-wise. I have a pretty good idea of my AI placement already, so I would say I'm keeping inside the time budget (hopefully).

Edited January 4, 2012 by RPGista

[Springheel]

Yes, many historic buildings are particularly hard to model in 3d, let alone with mostly brushes, so simplification must occour, but at the same time, I find that references are a must to keep track of the "feel" of the city landscape or the overall coherence of a building

 

+1

[Bikerdude]

 

oooh thats a very nice...

[jay pettitt]

Just as an update, I would say I'm 30% done geometry-wise. I have a pretty good idea of my AI placement already, so I would say I'm keeping inside the time budget (hopefully).

 

Wha!?! - You're nearly done and I've barely been in the editor yet! I have some catchup to do.

 

But I am going to be blogging the build on my silly thiefy blog.

[Glyph Seeker]

Digging the concept art, here!

[RPGista]

Hahaha, I wouldnt say nearly done, I got a bit of free time and was able to advance some, but there's a lot to do still and I wont be able to progress as fast from now on. I also said 30% basic geometry, which to me means I was able to replace 30% of the maps' "boxes" with true buildings (textured and some decoration, but no work on the interiors for now). So no need to worry at all, there's still plenty of time for anyone to start today and still come up with something nice (there are in fact some awesome missions that took like 1-2 months to be made, like Fiasco or the Outpost).

[Sir Taffsalot]

Feel free to post any screenshots in this thread. Not only is it nice to see what we have to look forward to but it's an opptertunity for veterans to offer tips for improvement if any should be required.

[jay pettitt]

No screenshots yet, but I do have a draft briefing. Am I doing this all back-to-front?

 

 

The Grand Hotel is hosting an exhibition of exotic and rare artefacts from the East. The wealthy showing off their ill gotten gains under guise of education. Though I must admit, I’m especially interested in learning a little more about a particularly large and expensive gem called the bladebladebla stone.

 

To make the bladebladebla easier to move, my fence can break it into smaller stones and sit on them until the heat dies down. They won’t be worth quite as much as the original, but will still be valueable enough to earn me a down-payment on delivery.

 

I greased a hotel porter’s palm and found out that the owner is staying in room 10. I’ve a map and I should be able to find a way in from the side alley.

 

I won’t be welcome at The Grand or anywhere near it. The well-healed pay a lot of money to live where they don’t have to mingle with the under-classes. So it’s just as well I don’t intend to let any of them see me. Even so, this job will be risky. Security will be tight and the Hotel will have extra guards on watch. And even if I do manage to bag it, there's little chance it won't be missed. Normally I might even think better of taking a job this conspicuous. But the rent is due.

[brethren]

Man, I admire you guys for doing concept drawings, that's dedication. Myself, my drawing abilities are so awful I'm better off just diving right into the editor. They look cool though, I'd love see more.

[Mortem Desino]

That's a fine setting you're creating, jay. The briefing makes me expect a large, sprawling space, so don't get too carried away.

 

Also - (a personal preference) - the "rent is due" is becoming a tiresome motivator for the player. Why this particular guy? Why this particular place? A more compelling reason would be something like "My son Tiny Tim needs an operation because the mean owner of this hotel broke Tiny Tim's kneecaps." Now I think that this guy deserves to be stolen from, and I am stealing for a good reason.

[Sir Taffsalot]

@ Jay Pettitt - It sets the scene well and makes it very clear what you have to do. The briefing is fine but I agree with MD. Instead of paying the rent again how about something like these-

 

"These nobles have more money than they know what to do with. It's a good thing that I'm here to help them out."

 

"Security will be high tonight. Most people would take another job. But I just can't say no to a good challenge."

[Springheel]

Or I have to pay off my informant, or Suzy is going to be back in town this week, or I need the bribe to keep the Citywatch off my back, or a stolen shipment of Chteau Lafite Rothschild Pauillac is being sold off by the Cratchet gang...etc

[SeriousToni]

 

 

 

Regarding the importance of concept drawings before actual mapping, I thought I should share some of my own here, and assure anyone feeling the same that I am utterly unable to create anything directly on a computer, I find that it takes me a LOT more time to come up with stuff on the fly, and they generally lack any sense of direction, simply because there was no planning. I would again suggest anyone having trouble creating shape like that to take some time to sketch your ideas freely on a piece of paper, it gets much easier then to register, by trial and error, that feeling you wanted; putting it into DR afterwards is a much simpler and faster task. At least, thats how it always work for me.

 

As I was looking at this nice concept art you've done there RPGista and to keep the people here up to date I've decided to release one of my scrawls too (I don't want reveal too much about my noob-map ).

Edited January 8, 2012 by SeriousToni

[RPGista]

Those are interesting coloring works in a style that could be used for your briefing or loading screen, I generally like those interpretations (done in Photoshop?). I think however that concept art is more related to planning/sketching ideas - next time you are faced with designing a room/building, try to create it on paper first, like I said, it makes it a ton easier to go about executing it inside the editor.

[Sotha]

Cool. Nice to see people preparing well for their work. I personally usually just google some images from the net and then creating them in DR. I also google for floorplans and modify them to better suit my purposes.

Just a hint for those like me who can't draw.

[demagogue]

I have some respect for concept art... Even when I have detailed floorplans in mind, there were a lot of times when I actually get down to building where I don't have much vision what I actually want to be doing. The most inspired vision I had was when I had actually a literal dream about the exact look I wanted, and then it gave me a definite look to go for and it ended up being the most effective rooms, atmosphere-wise.

[Fabes]

I think of joining the competition as well, but I would have to wait until the 10th of February to begin because of university exams. In addition I have to admit, that I have zero experience with the TDM editor (lol, I even don't know its name), but back in the days I had a lot of fun building maps with the valve hammer editor for HL1 and CS. Are these two editors comparable and do you guys think that it's possible to finish a map in 2 months starting from scratch?

Edited January 11, 2012 by Fabes

[RPGista]

It would be cool if you participated too Fabes, maybe someone more experienced can give opinions, but to my knowledge, Dark Radiant seems to be a very aproachable editor that although a bit clumsy in a number of ways, is also very streamlined and user friendly in other aspects. Furthermore, if you follow Komag's video tutorials first, and then follow closely Fidcal's tutorial (A-Z Beginner tutorial, which is a complete mini-mission with pretty much everything you would need for a first map: http://wiki.thedarkm...uide_Start_Here!), you will have enough knowledge to create something in a very short time. Completing the tutorial itself takes a couple of days, after that you would already have a proto-mission done; if you can focuse on doing not more than that, a very small map with an interesting situation to solve and maybe a challenging gameplay obstacle to overcome, in like a few weeks of geometry making, you would still have one month for doubts, troubleshooting, and some beta testing before releasing. Just take a look at the Thief's Den, the demo map upon which the tutorial is based on - it's a neat little map with about 5 challenges - a guard you have to lure, discovering how to jump over the wall, avoiding a body guard, finding your target inside the house and then look for a certain treasure. All is done in a small street section, a bit of architecture for you to climb, and a small hideout with 3 rooms (and an outside patio). If you consciously focuse your map into something like that, a small challenge, you should have enough time for sure. You just cant get too ambitious, my mission isnt even that big or complicated, but my style of architecture building would take too long to finish in that time, for example (and Im already adjusting because, like I said, certain things in DR, like complicated buildings, take a long time and lots of mouse clicks to get done).

Edited January 11, 2012 by RPGista

[demagogue]

2 months is possible, if you shoot for around 5-10 rooms.

[Melan]

Fabes: I am not familiar with Hammer, but I think if you understand the basics of level editing, it will not be hard for you to take up Radiant.

 

If you run out of time, you can still complete your mission as a non-contest entry, and people here will enjoy it all the same. But I think I built my first TDM mission in approximately two months, without significant prior experience, and ended up winning the contest I built it for, so it may be possible.

Edited January 11, 2012 by Melan