Fan Mission: In remembrance of him (by RPGista)

[RPGista 600]

Grayman - seems you cant get a break my friend... I got a single report at the time that this particular conversation wasnt working properly. It is indeed composed of "barks", but the woman has a activate entity argument there that should send her to her path network after it. The problem was that she wouldnt move after the conversation ended. I have no clue why that happens. All other testers confirmed that it was in fact happening, before I decided to post. I just tried the same file I uploaded, and it works for me... Unfortunately I cant help you.

 

Aluminium - Wouldnt it be easier to just bring a candle with you, theres a handy one on the altar. That way you can examine the crypt alcove better. And yes, the pipe is the way to go. I have played at least two missions where you need to climb drain pipes (Fiasco and Business as Usual (if I remember correctly)), so I thought everyone would be familiar with that by now.

 

Jay Pettit - See above. Its funny you should say that, because the church is actually my favourite place in the map. Maybe because it was the most complicated to build and texture.

 

Simplenoob - Thats the problem right there, you and Melan spoilled me by conquering the mission too quickly and easily. But that does remind me: (Spoiler about the final scene)

 

 

It is sometimes pretty hard to lift the arm bones, they seem to get "stuck" and wont move. Luckly, you can still frob the ring from between the fingers, look closely and you'll see it there.

 

Edited April 24, 2012 by RPGista

[simplen00b 97]

No, it's OK - I did work it out before you released it, but I needed a hint.

 

You're not the first FMA who's been on the receiving end of my occasional OCD tendencies (as Sotha may be able to tell you ).

[Thiefette 40]

I finished up this mission and really liked your city layout, lighting and your sky was awesome.

 

 

I had no trouble getting by the two at the fire at the beginning. I simply took a bowl and put it over the fire to create darkness and then knocked out the one that came looking when I picked the lock

 

Unfortunately I had a lot of frustration with this area and the archer area. I wasted a lot of time trying to get up to the open windows at the start of the long building - even had four stools stacked to try and get up to the roof before I realized I wasn't getting up there. I didn't find anything in the factory so not sure why I had to go there. As others have said, the path didn't seem clear on how to get to where you wanted to go. In the archer area I first tried to go up by way of the balcony with a stovepipe? beside it but when I jumped at the pipe I went right through the wall. I had seen the posts on one wall and a ledge on the other and after dying (or nearly) many, many, many times I ended up having to read your walkthrough (didn't want to but..) to see if I was coming even close to going the right way. I guess this was the hardest part for me. ( I noclipped just to see what was in the room with the kitchen and also read about the drainpipe) Made it through to the church did some thief business went downstairs towards the only light and then the screams came. Wow ran as fast as I could with what was left of my life. Great work there.

I had some difficulty locating the body, but by then my logical brain was not working anymore, so took awhile to find it in the dark. (Never thought to use the candle )

 

 

I was very impressed with the size of the city. Would have loved to explore more of it. Congrats again on the release.

[Oldjim 154]

To explain my scores

Gameplay - I found it frustrating in that the only difficult part was finding where to go and where to mantle/jump to. The idea was good but the graphics in some of the areas weren't as clearly defined as they could have been.

This was most apparent when trying to find my way through the construction area and onto the drainpipe. There was very little or no apparent difference between those parts which could be landed on and those which couldn't. A point of annoyance at the start I managed to climb onto the drainpipe to climb up to the open window but for no obvious reason I couldn't climb up it (I assume it was because of the small spikes sticking out).

 

Appearance was good but partly because of the above I didn't rate it as excellent

Story/Text The idea was good but the actual introduction was too drawn out for my taste. This is probably down to my preferences but a cleaner/shorter introduction would have suited me much better.

However, notwithstanding the scores, I thought that this was an excellent first effort and the basic idea (find your way to an undefined point without a map) could be used again with success but perhaps having a few readables scattered about to give hints. This would be more important if the area covered was greater and that there were a number of dead ends.

[RPGista 600]

Thiefette – glad you liked it. A few points: Cool way of getting rid of the peasants, its a shame though I couldnt make one respond to the other being KOed by the player. There's no reason to go into the factory, its basicly abandoned, but for the guard. Its there to add to the “atmosphere” (=consistency). The whole point of the mission is to “search between the buildings and inner streets for the churchyard”, thats why there's no clear path to follow, that also allowed me to create more than one way to get there. You just have to keep moving foward, thats all.

 

Oldjim – See above. The point was to search for the church. Once your there, its just a matter of finding the ring, so thats the “adventure” part (how to invade buildings and get past them, and see whats comes up next). I start to wonder if a lot of people have their gamma levels set correctly, or maybe if they are forgetting to adjust it to the map; its common to need to adjust the gamma a bit for each map, and people should probably do this here too, because I can see my way throughout the whole map quite clearly. (bold for others to see)

 

Oh and about the need to punch me. Refrain yourself boys, this is just a game after all.

Edited April 25, 2012 by RPGista

[Thiefette 40]

Thiefette – glad you liked it. A few points: Cool way of getting rid of the peasants, its a shame though I couldnt make one respond to the other being KOed by the player.

 

Just to let you know

 

they both responded when I picked the lock in the light. Only the seated one responded when I did it in the dark. He couldn't see me but looked and came farther up the hill in the dark. When he stopped looking that's when I KO'd him. I assumed the other never saw what happened. Then I took him out.

 

[Sir Taffsalot 457]

My issue with the platforming bit

 

 

When I entered the ruined building I assumed I had to find away to jump over the collapsed floor. I failed. Once I'm at the bottom of the pit my first thought is to try again. I assumed that to do this I would logically have to go back to the side of the collapsed building where I entered. I tried climbing a piece of wood and it didn't work. Now I naturally assume that all pieces of wood are not climbable. Why should a piece of wood that's facing the right way be any different to any other piece of wood. In fact I am now assuming that unless there is a ladder or something that looks like it can obviously be climbed I am not going to bother trying.

 

I like problem solving and I like it when FMAs try to incorperate other gameplay styles besides stealth. Plus due to TDMs greath mantling system platforming can be great fun. Unfortunately with regards to the platforming element I didn't have any fun. Hence the low grade for gameplay. I hope my explanation makes sense and this doesn't put you off trying new things in your future FMs.

 

[simplen00b 97]

For anyone who may be interested, I've uploaded a couple of video clips showing the two different routes to the churchyard from the courtyard:

 

Route 1 (through the derelict building):

Route 2 (through the couple's kitchen):

[RPGista 600]

Thats very cool Simplenoob, thanks for that, I'm going to put that into the walkthrough section if you dont mind, might help some people! I forgot to noclip that little detail on the wall, from where you can walk from the barn balcony to the cornice. And I must say the way you crossed the derelict building is not something I ever tried. This is the "official" way to cross it:

 

 

 

 

Also, another detail: because you alerted the cooker lady, you didnt get to see her play a small animation.

Edited April 25, 2012 by RPGista

[SiyahParsomen 31]

Great progress by touch-pad. It looks painful actually.

[RPGista 600]

Sir Taffsalot - I wouldnt expect another mission. The effort is tremendous...

 

As far as your experiences, a couple of points: all pieces of broken wood are physical objects, that are potentially climbable, just havent been given a nodraw brush, so they can be unstable. Im not suggesting people might be coming at the mission too impatiently, because I see many trying hard, but I frankly do not know how else I could have structured that map section and make it any more obvious. Just take a look at the picture of the derelict building in the previous post. There are two big, perfectly clear beams that are almost touching each other, clearly within your reach (the right one), how else would you try to cross that pit? All others look way too broken down to even get your attention. Simplenoob discovered an easier, unexpected way, but THAT jump not even I thought you could make from the looks of it. Its the whole thing about not being able to tell if people will spot the solution too quickly and find the whole thing boring and predictable, or maybe they wont be able to see the path no matter what, and get completely lost. To tell you the truth its a bit disappointing (not you of course, but the whole situation of having literally half the public thinking it was a great challenge and the other half being disgusted by it), but short of spawning a "tutorial" text that said "hmmm... That beam looks like a good way to try to cross this pit", and thus annoy players for holding their hands, I dont really know how to make that path more obvious without ruining any chance of people finding out for themselves and getting rewarded for their own cleverness.

Edited April 25, 2012 by RPGista

[Sir Taffsalot 457]

Sir Taffsalot - I wouldnt expect another mission. The effort is tremendous...

 

That is very sad to hear. I was only critical of the platforming bit because as far as I'm concerned everything else was really impressive and I would very much like to see what you could do with your next effort. I know real life stuff has to come first but never say never?

[Melan 1782]

Sir Taffsalot - I wouldnt expect another mission. The effort is tremendous...

That's not what I hoped to hear either.

[simplen00b 97]

Thats very cool Simplenoob, thanks for that, I'm going to put that into the walkthrough section if you dont mind, might help some people!

Hoped it would help - might give players some idea of where the 'targets' need to be positioned in the screen (e.g. for the drainpipe, I need to aim quite high). Something else I do quite often is take a slight step away from a wall if I'm right next to it (you can just see it about 25 secs into the route #2 video) - don't honestly know if it really makes a difference, but I like to think it does.

This is the "official" way to cross it:

That's cool! Just gone back in to try it. I'd say the first two jumps are much easier, but I nearly always get some damage from the last jump. That first jump is great fun though, and I think it's great that even in that confined space, there are different routes across.

Also, another detail: because you alerted the cooker lady, you didnt get to see her play a small animation.

Usually, I don't alert her - I jump in while she stands stirring the pot, then I shadow her out as she leaves. I was quite pleased the video did show her being alerted as it showed what you can do if that happens. (Is the stirring the animation you referred to, or there another one?)

I wouldnt expect another mission.

Could you maybe insert 'in the foreseeable future' after that? I hope you feel differently after having a rest from it, 'cos even the players who hated the climbing part of your map seemed to agree it's a really beautiful mission. (Maybe take it easier and avoid meeting a deadline next time... )

 

(BTW - in case anyone was wondering, the first video is garishly bright because I let Google 'correct the darkness'. I actually think it helps see what's happening (in the derelict building especially), but the Route #2 video is more indicative of my gameplay settings.)

[simplen00b 97]

OK, last post for the night - another clip showing my way of dealing with the priest and, more importantly, What Lies Beneath ;

 

Note: it just goes up to getting one of the AI into the graveyard. What you do with him after that is up to you .

 

Aside: I'd love to know if anyone managed to survive this section the first time they went there without having to do a fairly prompt reload.

 

A reload of the game, that is.

Not a reload of their pants.

With the smell of fear.

**Schoolboy snigger**

 

 

Sorry. It's late. Gonna crash now.

 

EDIT: Forgot to put link to video in. Did say it was late .

Edited April 26, 2012 by simplen00b

[Diego 169]

I survived that part

 

When the screaming began I stood in a lit place so I could see when something approached me. When I saw the zombie I lured him upstairs so the builder buy could fight him. Then I fought with the builder (I'm pretty good with this sword fight thing!)

 

[Slither 0]

I feel let down by this mission. The intro was so good and lighting done very well, but I started feeling a little uncomfortable with it when I walked on a ledge that appeared to be about 1cm wide.Then, the back of the destroyed house ended it for me. Just too much die/reload. Thief fans use the word "immersion" frequently; endless save/reload to get past a jumping puzzle is the ultimate immersion-breaker... and this mission teetered too far over the line of frustration for me. If your testers were getting frustrated with it, best to edit it rather than wait for the player to "get it."

[Xarg 173]

I take it you weren't a fan of Komag's "Swing" then?

[RPGista 600]

I feel let down by this mission. The intro was so good and lighting done very well, but I started feeling a little uncomfortable with it when I walked on a ledge that appeared to be about 1cm wide.Then, the back of the destroyed house ended it for me. Just too much die/reload. Thief fans use the word "immersion" frequently; endless save/reload to get past a jumping puzzle is the ultimate immersion-breaker... and this mission teetered too far over the line of frustration for me. If your testers were getting frustrated with it, best to edit it rather than wait for the player to "get it."

 

Route 1 (through the derelict building): http://youtu.be/t8g67kLt3q0

 

Sir Taffsalot, Melan, Simplenoob - alright, lets say in the foreseeable future then.

 

Xarg - Thats a formidable idea, but for some reason I was never able to finish the map! You gotta admit that thing gets you pretty dizzy...

[BlueSkyBullet 1]

alright, lets say in the foreseeable future then

 

For someone who created a mission with such an obvious love for the crafting of gameplay and story and elegant beauty... I give your statement about not doing any more of it... about as much weight as I give Sotha's latest pronouncement of retirement.

 

Y'all both love it.

 

You get exhaunsted -- and who wouldn't, even and with the additional in the aftermath of responding to the praise and criticism --- but y'all both love it!

 

 

[Xarg 173]

Xarg - Thats a formidable idea, but for some reason I was never able to finish the map! You gotta admit that thing gets you pretty dizzy...

 

It got close the first time I walked out of the enclosed area that you start with, then after a period of appreciation and working out how it was done (via a few accidental falling off the level incidents) I managed to tune the scenery out to concentrate on the map. It's a fantastic map though, definitely not your everyday mission.

[simplen00b 97]

@Diego

(I'm pretty good with this sword fight thing!)

Not me - I flail it around like a three-year-old with a bargepole .

 

Interesting that 'Swing' has been mentioned, cos I've been thinking of that and "Illusionist's Tower" as puzzle maps that I struggled with and eventually gave up on. "Illusionist's Tower" I gave up on very quickly when it turned into a

wretched 'set the switches in the right order' puzzle

- sorry; can't abide 'em. Gave it about ten minutes and then went onto the next FM. I gave Swing much longer (it did involve jumping and climbing after all); I got to the top OK but after about an hour of trying to work out how to get back down without dying I gave up.

 

It's possibly ironic this particular mission became my first-ever experience as a beta-tester, because I'm prepared to spend a lot of time working out climbing puzzles in TDM, whereas ghosting, for example, is something I almost never try to 'work out' (although that might be beginning to change ). (I was surprised and honoured RPG asked me to beta-test, BTW; I had just offered to check the readables .)

 

So (if I am allowed to do any more beta-testing in the future), a general rule of thumb might be "If simplen00b finds your climbing/mantling puzzle a bit tricky, there's a good chance a lot of other players will want to punch you ".

 

Because, frankly, if the game doesn't have a climbing/mantling challenge, I'll find one. (Warning: subtitle of this video clip is 'Me Showing Off'):-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRt0cK0-7Ws

[RPGista 600]

I give your statement about not doing any more of it... about as much weight as I give Sotha's latest pronouncement of retirement.

 

Although Sotha retiring from mission making would surely be a shame, I wouldnt say the same about me. The point was to create a piece of fantasy, something Ive been looking foward since my teens, TDM seemed like the right place to do it, but there are no plans for more. What people dont seem to realise is just how much time you have to pour into this to make a mission playable. Specially if you want to do something that wasnt streamlined in TDM, like I tried to do. There are no wiki articles, no tutorials. You have to read dozens of things and put the pieces together, you have to try it in game a zillion times, and most importantly, you have to be bugging knowledgeable people all the time, and hope they'll share the answer. In fact, if you want to make a mission, I advise anyone to do it now. There's an intellectual core in the forums, a certain group of people who possess invaluable knowledge that they are willing to share and guide you with. If it wasnt for them, there wouldnt be missions.

[Sir Taffsalot 457]

I think your first FM is always your hardest. Especially if you've never done any level editing before. You have to learn everything from scratch. You should find making an FM a lot easier now that the first ones out of the way.

[Sotha 1905]

Yup. That's the addicting thing in mapping. Each mission you create makes creation of subsequent works more easy. After producing so many missions, I know all the time what I am doing and how to implement any features I'd like. I need to do trial and error testing quite rarely and you can focus entirely on the interesting stuff.

 

I like the creation process and that has kept me mapping. However, I have so low amount of free time nowadays that I don't think I can keep up anymore. I aim to finish the TP series with a one more mission after my current WIP. After that I hope my works will inspire others to make more missions for the mod. I certainly will hang around and try to help anyone wanting to learn to map as I've done thus far.