Damage levels

[RPGista]

So I was playing Serioustoni mission and I have been noticing that it seems very hard to score a one hit kill in melee fights anymore (if at all). I used to be able to take out a guard with a good hit on the head/chest and now you need to hit the head at least two times, chest seems more, but not sure. Even the arrows seem quite a bit less effective - idle AI will still fall with a headshot, but alerted ones will need at least two arrows on the head, many more on the body. Let alone realism - the TDM thief used to be a lot more deadly (or am I just getting a wrong impression/imagining things here?)

 

If the damage levels were indeed lowered, isnt it unfortunate? It would make it pretty much impossible to defeat more than one enemy at a time because the player would never be able to take anyone out instantly; any fight would carry on for longer and loose excitment because it seems you can now be hit 4-5 times before getting killed yourself (should be 2-3 tops)... I always liked fights to be fast and furious, one, two hits and its over. Would there be a way to raise the damage levels? I could be wrong, its pretty late and I should be sleeping.

[jaxa]

I've never found melee to be really easy, and I know the emphasis is on making it hard to encourage most players to avoid melee. I don't remember any changes.

 

1.07

• added improved melee combat animations (Noisycricket)
  
• Weapons are now divided into three different categories of damage. Daggers no longer do the same damage as Longswords. (Springheel)
  

Edited April 29, 2012 by jaxa

[Springheel]

Damage levels weren't changed for the player. Did you adjust your combat difficulty? That has an effect on how hard AI are to damage, I believe.

 

As for AI hitting you, two hits with a longsword should definitely take you out; it would take more from smaller weapons.

[Tels]

So I was playing Serioustoni mission and I have been noticing that it seems very hard to score a one hit kill in melee fights anymore (if at all). I used to be able to take out a guard with a good hit on the head/chest and now you need to hit the head at least two times, chest seems more, but not sure. Even the arrows seem quite a bit less effective - idle AI will still fall with a headshot, but alerted ones will need at least two arrows on the head, many more on the body. Let alone realism - the TDM thief used to be a lot more deadly (or am I just getting a wrong impression/imagining things here?)

 

If the damage levels were indeed lowered, isnt it unfortunate? It would make it pretty much impossible to defeat more than one enemy at a time because the player would never be able to take anyone out instantly; any fight would carry on for longer and loose excitment because it seems you can now be hit 4-5 times before getting killed yourself (should be 2-3 tops)... I always liked fights to be fast and furious, one, two hits and its over. Would there be a way to raise the damage levels? I could be wrong, its pretty late and I should be sleeping.

 

I don't know if something was changed, but the way you describe it, it actually should be. Fights that are over after one hit are not "exciting", but frustrating, because it all suddenly depends on luck (the less hits it takes, the less chance you have to survive).

 

Also, basically, it should be hard to fight against an AI (if not, what would be the point of having them if you can just speed-run through the level and insta-kill anyone?) and it should almost impossible to fight against two. And fights with 3 opponents are very rare, afterall. (After you learn how to fight, it will get easier. If it's easy from the beginning, there is no progress for you)

[Sotha]

I don't know...

 

I sometimes enjoy a sword fight or two while WIP testing. Usually I face stab almost any foe with a single blow. Feels a bit too easy for me, but I don't know what my combat difficulty is. I never use autoparry.

 

Overall the combat has always felt easy for me. Gotta put the difficulty up next time...

 

Then again, I've a lot of Pirates, Vikings and Knights II experience, which uses a similar combat system as the one in TDM, but is an online hack&slash game. I know how to 'read' the situation.

[RPGista]

Then it is explained - I raised the melee difficulty a couple of months ago, never knew it would have an impact on damage levels. There seems to be quite a difference between normal and hard, I wonder how things are in expert? Might go for a few tests.

 

As for melee fights being easy - they are not, nor are they frustrating. The excitment comes from having to finish it as quickly as possible. The system used is quite nice and still has a lot of potential yet to be explored, in terms of small timings and small animations that could be added - its based on counters, so when a guard hacks at you, you block it and hit in the opposite blow direction. You should be able to kill the guy with one hit because that makes it feel like a brutal fight and a deadly character. It is silly to see the guard fighting and taunting with a face that is now a bloody mess. Again, you are supposed to be a deadly guy, one hit kills are essential for that feeling, this coupled with metal plates and armor mofifiers makes it perfect, as it rewards players that can be very accurate; you still get to feel you are dangerous even against heavily protected enemies, if you can find an opening, its all finished.

 

Fights against two are pretty difficult, made possible only by using accuracy as I said earlier. The same for 3 guys, possible only if you kill one right from the start and concentrate on the other two. I dont use auto parry, with it it is a LOT easier to defeat them.

 

Thanks for clearing that up. I would still like to have the option to increase the melee difficulty without changing damage levels (if anything, increasing them too!), but I guess I can just put it back to normal.

Edited April 29, 2012 by RPGista

[Springheel]

you are supposed to be a deadly guy,

 

Where did you get that impression?

[RPGista]

Player is invisible in shadows; can move silently under the nose of enemies; can KO anyone with a single hit, never missing; has a sword that carries bonus damage when you hit someone by surprise; can kill armored enemies fast by targetting open body areas; has anti-personnel mines, has two instantly incapacitating arrows (fire and gas), and steel heads can also kill with one shot, from a good distance, from the shadows, so enemies never know what hit them. I would say he is pretty deadly, and rightfully so, as "assassination" types of missions is one of the themes with the most potential in this mod.

[Springheel]

The player is smaller, less armoured, less trained and has a shorter weapon than most of the guards he encounters. You're a thief, not a warrior. Yes, you have some fancy equipment and can use surprise to your advantage, which makes you a good assassin, but if you wind up in a straight-on hand-to-hand fight with a guard, you should expect to be at a disadvantage.

[grayman]

'Normal' difficulty subtracts 50 from a melee-weapon-carrying AI's health. Melee damage is reduced by a factor of 0.6.

 

'Hard' difficulty doesn't change the health. Melee damage is reduced by a factor of 0.75.

 

'Expert' difficulty adds 35. Melee damage is unchanged.

[Xarg]

You can also change the health and damage modifier values for AI. The default AI health is 100, and the head hitbox has a modifier of 2.0. Changing the head modifier to 1.0 effectively doubles the "health", or halves the damage, taken to that section.

[Tels]

...The excitment comes from having to finish it as quickly as possible...

 

That's what he said!