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wrichards

A few questions...

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please forgive me, Ive spent all weekend trying things, reading, watching/doing tutorials etc... but have some questions that are most likely so basic but im stuck on...

 

Remembering the Dromed editor of old, the now called "void" is/was both a solid AND empty space. as far as I can tell this "void" is empty... ok got that..

 

my first question related to that is: I was used to making a block then just pressing some key and boom an empty room... its this feature im trying to find/use. As I can tell the "hollows" block in a space, not create a true hollow. so heres my problem or way Im used to thinking...

 

what I want to do: Imagine a large empty room with a square pillar in the middle. I want to notch out a nitche. My thinking is outline the block half way in and half way out of the SqPillar and subtract, and viola a nitche.... is this a function in this editor? if so where is it? I just cant get a grip on this simple task.

 

this leads into cutting in a hallway into a room. Ive practiced a few diffrent ways.. all seem tiedious as I have to peel back walls patch areas above hallways etc.... the method of just hollowing out is what my brain thinks.....

 

Im almost at the point of making a huge solid block and tunneling it out...

 

all in all newbi problems that will fix over time, but a nudge would save me tons of time...

 

another problem: the old deRomed had an option to turn off the agression of the player to walk through your test level. I need this toggle to test AIs and such and not be attacked walking through a test run... is this toggle avail? is it a keystroke I missed while in game?

 

 

all in all been making test rooms and such finding everything in the menues and re-learning all the triggers and such. I forgot how deep the rabbit hole goes ;)

 

anyway, if this is not the right place to post questions like this let me know, I wanta get in the grove of this forum and editor quickly as soo many levels are waiting to be built :)

 

thanks again in advance for any responses....

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the old deRomed had an option to turn off the agression of the player to walk through your test level

 

Call the console and type "notarget". Or "god" if you want them to be able to see you but not damage you.

 

The other thing you're looking for is CSG Subtract, I believe, but I'll let others chime in on that.

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Yes CSG subtract but it's not recommended for general use because it splits brushes oddly. It's worth exploring how it works though so you know.

 

To make a room use the csg 'room' option not 'hollow' so there is no overlap of brushes.

 

A simple way to make a niche is split the wall into nine pieces like this: # then push in the one in the middle.

 

I'm fairly sure there is a niche described in the A-Z tutorial - the niche for the torch in the yard.

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I came at from a completely different approach, in that I had never done any 3D or map editing before I started playing around with TDM.

 

1. As I had no idea about the sizes and dimension of things, common sense dictated the std door (door96x48_2hinge) would be a a good idea to start with - so at grid selection 4 in DR thats 12 squares high by 6 squares across by half a square thick.

2. And I then built rooms wall by wall, then the floor/ceiling, instead of created a square/rectangle and hollowing it out. I still sorta do that to this day, a mixture of my first mapping methods and the recommended way.

3. The console command to make all Ai ignore you is "notarget 1" and then "notarget 0" to turn it off etc.

 

And lastly yes this is the right place to ask, if your based in the UK your welcome to pop down to my place and I'll give you a crash course in DR/TDM.

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ok I guess with fresh eyes, tryed the piller in a room thing and "subtracted a nitch, then I removed the block I used for the subtraction and , viola there was a nitche. Now I saw exactly what Fidcal described, it broke up the pillar into seprate brushes... ok i can live with this. I guess my main concern is later when I worry about wierd polys or such but I figure theres some kinda over all "trim" or such that will get rid of all the crap poly edges or such...

 

Thank you all again for the responses and so quick :) nice to know helpful peps are a call away... just have to warp my brain a bit to re-think the whole solid world thing, almost there :)

 

Thanks again guys

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Yes CSG subtract but it's not recommended for general use because it splits brushes oddly. It's worth exploring how it works though so you know.

 

To make a room use the csg 'room' option not 'hollow' so there is no overlap of brushes.

 

A simple way to make a niche is split the wall into nine pieces like this: # then push in the one in the middle.

 

I'm fairly sure there is a niche described in the A-Z tutorial - the niche for the torch in the yard.

 

yes thank you, the a-z I worked through mostly, again it was my "solid" thinking thatwas leading me astray....

 

I guess Im used to thinking in minimal polys, but todays comps and software most likley power the whole crunch down much better than 10 years ago LOL ;)

 

thanks again

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This might be below your skill level, but I like to pimp these vids when I can:

 

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Yeah CGS Subtract is not recommended because it can shatter a brush into splinters which is nightmare! But once in a blue moon it's useful. When in doubt, I wouldn't though.

 

The Cut tool works much better. That's where you draw a line across a brush, click it, and it cuts along the line, so you can precisely control what's getting cut. Then you move around or delete what you want.

 

Another good method to know, for windows & doors, is to multiply or cut a bigger brush into smaller pieces and pull the window or door hole out like pulling apart a curtain.

 

It's a different way of thinking between dromed's negative-space and DR's positive-space approach, but you get used to it.


What do you see when you turn out the light? I can't tell you but I know that it's mine.

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Yes thank You Demagogue, I can see now what my brain was rebelling against ;) the cut tool I C is what I was looking for, I just watched Springheels video, which to my dismay was the only one I didnt watch over the weekend ;( anyway, yea now that i know the editor can handle more polys than Im used to thinking, I'll try to keep thinking "less" polys but not over obsess ;) yea alota things just clicked this AM, I think too many hours in a row over the weekend dampened my thinking... fresh eyes fresh thinking... woo hoo... lets get editing ;)

 

thanks again guys for helping me get up to speed

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Another question, this one in regard to how the engine "processes", for lack of a better word, you level.....

 

I'm one of these guys that makes a few rooms, fleshes them out with objects and such then adds a few more rooms on....

 

My question is this, is it OK to build and add objects and some AIs while I go, or should I complete the archetecure first before adding AIs and advanced triggers and such? AI pa thing and such I add as I go after the major archet. Parts are done....

 

I'd like to know if I should wait or is it OK to make a blue room, and copy things from it to add to the level...

 

My concern is I need to make sure the map archet. Is processes BEFORE an AI or such is placed in the hallway, is there a sequence list I can access to see the order of what's being processed when? Every so often I would reuse an AI or such from later section and drag him to an earlier part of the map, this may conflict as the AI was "made" before the section of the map he was added....

 

Man I hope this makes sense.... its a sequence of when things are added in relation to where they are placed...

 

 

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Someone with more experience can probably answer better than I, but if I understand the question correctly there's no problem with sequence. TDM doesn't have a concept of time (or order) like Dromed does when it comes to brushes.

 

Moving AI around later on is fine as long as you've not done any special scripting or patrol work.

 

How you actually go about building (whether room by room, or architecture then lighting then objects etc) is a personal preference for the mapper. Some of the more speedy authors seem to do most of the brushwork first and then worry about detailing / texturing, but that approach doesn't seem to work for me. I prefer a more organic design process where the design changes as I go based on the feeling I get from lighting and texturing in any given section. Totally a personal thing though.

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No there's no issue with sequence that you need to worry about.

You just need to make sure everything is sealed from the void while you're building. That's the only real game-stopper.

 

There's a building method called stepwise refinement where you build the architecture for the entire level in a simple way first, then add increasing levels of detail. It's a good method, but it's not written in concrete if you have your own building style.

 

The other useful thing to know is you can build with layers (Cntl+L or View->Layers), which lets you hide architecture you're not working on and focus on things you are by working on the map in separate layers (with a region or room being its own layer). As the map gets bigger & more complicated, it also helps performance in DR, and just keeps things clearer.


What do you see when you turn out the light? I can't tell you but I know that it's mine.

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The other useful thing to know is you can build with layers (Cntl+L or View->Layers), which lets you hide architecture you're not working on and focus on things you are by working on the map in separate layers (with a region or room being its own layer). As the map gets bigger & more complicated, it also helps performance in DR, and just keeps things clearer.

 

I didn't know this. That is really going to make life easier. That's my something new learned for the day.


"I believe that what doesn't kill you simply makes you... stranger"

 

The Joker

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Don't build too much without dmapping and testing. I mean, if you did three weeks work then find it crashes it's a pain to sort out. Instead of one leak you might have twenty. When you dmap and test it confirms it's not leaking and gives you an idea of performance (slow down.) Keep in mind that lighting and AI both slow things down so if you leave them till later then allow for it. It sometimes happens someone builds a nice city and goes running around whoopee! - what great performance - I can afford to add that huge vista with all the towers! Then later they add lights and guards etc. and it grinds to a halt.

 

Another thing is that, as a newcomer, it's best to learn from your mistakes in small doses rather than a hundred of 'em at once. You'll probably get a hundred - we all do (did I mean, ahem!) No problem - just work them out.

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Thank the builders! :) yea im a build room, dmap... add a hallway, dmap.. after MANY hours so far of building and a couple hours later find dmap leaks ARG... no more, ill make sure its water tight as I go..

 

GREAT to not have to worry about sequence, that was a bitch. I again very thankful to you all for this :) so far basic learning curve going flat. but soon comes the AIs, pathing, Frobing etc... haha the word Frob has been lost from my vocabulary for along time :P

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Note to self: DO NOT drag an entity from another section to a newly built room or you will go insane with a leak error trying to look at brushes. I chased a "leak" error for 3 hours today on a staircase section I built... turns out it was not a real leak but rather having draged the common_whore to another room.

 

Ive been using a commoner as a reference for height and such for hallways, corridors etc dragging it from room to room making sure headroom and elbow room was enough. was working well but kept returing a leak error... took a bit to figure out it was NOT a real leak but rather an old whore in a new room ;)

 

Build on!!

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Moving an entity from one room to another will not _cause_ a leak. But it can reveal an existing leak--a leak in a room with no entities causes no problems.

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Its always nice to see new folks mapping. My one piece of advice is to make use of the "bind" and "toggle" console commands. This can make it easier to issue commands over and over when necessary instead of having to always type them. For example:

 

bind n notarget

and then you can press n to turn notarget on and off


--- War does not decide who is right, war decides who is left.

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vrzvwm.jpg

 

still having problems with lights and such these are temp till I get better control, textures im working on alignment but...

 

from simple beginings come great things :)

Edited by wrichards

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The only issue I have with that scene is the texture scale on the walls and the texture used on the kitchen sink, other than that a very good start :-)

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Yea, I knew you guys would zoom in on the textures right away :-) I've corrected many on the "eyesores" to make things more in scale and natural looking, changed the lights and such. Its so much work to take order and make chaos look natural.. but that's what its all about. Sent two hours yesterday playing with an intersection, there was a minor glitch that most likely no one would see in the dark, but for me it was a mood breaker, I want total imersion, I hate having my illusion broken buy a bad texture or floating candle or something.... :-) anyway, big things comming

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I'm having problems,s using bevel... I've followed the tutorial, over a coupe hours I can't get it to render, I have a pink surface where it should bevel in the editor, when I go into test map it is invisible.... I'm trying to bevel the edge of the sink in the screen shot, it should be straight forward but its not rendering..... after a couple hours of playing with that edge I moved on and will come back later after I get better grip... I want a to round the corner just a bit, I tryed step by step the tutorial everything seems to work as should, I can see a "shell" in overhead of the bevel w three sides all looks as should but pink surface, in "lighted mode" its a wedge cut off leaving a hole where I can see the water inside..... not sure wuts up here.....

 

Beauler Beauler??? Anyone :-) thanks for responses in advance....

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One more thing, I tend to build dark, ambient at 4 or less, to try to make the "dark" consistant for other players I've locked my gamma in game at 1... have you guys made a standard as to gamma? Anyway fyi all my things will be based on gamma set at 1, figure player can set from there but at least 1 is base t what I'm stareing at.... :-)

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There is a gamma-setting room in the training mission. Just setting it to "1" doesn't mean much since monitors vary.

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Just guessing here about the bevel problem. I think all patch shapes now are created 'from above' - that is a cylinder is created so you are looking down the pipe from whichever grid view you have chosen. The bevel I think is similar - created with the angle showing not the side. This might be different in the old tutorial. Somehow I don't think this is the problem but just saying just in case.

 

Another possibility is you have the bevel inside out with the surface on the inside. Try menu - patches - matrix something - invert (something like that anyway.)

 

The other thing is it might be a rendering glitch. Doom3's dmap is not 100% perfect so sometimes we get rendering errors like black patches or transparent surfaces. As a test, try temporarily creating the bevel separately and very large so you can see it works. Then reduce in size. If the error returns then it's likely a rendering glitch.

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