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Fan Mission: Deceptive Shadows by Shadowhide (16/Sep/12)

Fan Mission: Deceptive Shadows by Shadowhide (16/Sep/12)  

55 members have voted

  1. 1. Gameplay: Enjoyment. Fun duration. Smooth flow, ect. Versus Bugs. Frustration, Boredom, framelag

  2. 2. Appearance: Vertical use, Visual pleasure, lighting, visual style, deduct bad texturing etc.

  3. 3. Story & Text: Story. Text. Briefing. Graphic storytelling



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Shadowhide , haven't had the chance to thank you for a very interesting and absorbing mission. Just finished with a little help from my friends on here and the odd sneaky noclip ! Gets good votes from me.

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Finished it! :D

 

What a detailed fm. The story and environmen were well made, readables weren't excessive/boring and the actual events that take place are pretty neat!

 

Although it's visually very detailed and seems like it must have took months to do it, I didn't find it very appealing. I hope SH doesn't take this the wrong way, I can be extremely annoying when it comes to visual design.

 

The gameplay, I voted poor because it was a very frustrating mission but there are positive aspects about it. The whole positioning of the guards and lights and the layout of the mission are pretty great! this makes for an excellent stealth mission. However, there's this whole lucas-arts-adventure style of puzzle that just doesn't work well with the tdm stealth. In those old games it could be pretty frustrating to come and go trying to find out what to do next etc, but we could do that easily! here we have to sneak the same guard once, twice, three times, four times, noclip once, noclip twice, and so on. It becomes tiresome and not fun. I'm not saying it's impossible to pull this off but it requires more care. For example, one could divide the level into segments, a more exploratory part, where you can laid out special items and secret passages and all that style of puzzle, and the other with more traditional stealth, so they don't get in the way of each other. Anyway, it's just a thought.

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Ok, barely started this and I'm already stuck. One way leads to a dead-end with magical symbols, the other way leads to a dead end with a locked door. I can't find keys or a lockpick anywhere, and when I tried alerting the guards on the other side, they didn't seem to be able to open the door either.

 

Is there a key hidden somewhere or should I be looking for an entirely different route?

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Springheel

 

Hint:

Look closer in the room with the symbols.

 

 

Big Hint:

Frob the ring and listen for a door (close by) to open. After searching this new room I believe the other door should open.

 

Edited by Thiefette

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Ok, barely started this and I'm already stuck.

Are you stuck in the cell? If so, (i) you're not the first (I suspect noclip has been used more than a few times) ; (ii) there's a readable outside the door which gives an admittedly pretty lateral clue about what you need to do.

Small hint:

There's something just outside the cell door that you can 'use' on something in the cell (in line with the readable).

 

Big hint:

There's a bottle which you can pick up outside the cell door - use it on the pagan seed just inside the cell door.

 

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On the off-chance they could be useful, here are lower-detail mission maps (mainly, I've marked the locations of various brothers' rooms so you know where to go when you find the key):-

 

post-9265-0-10130800-1349350766_thumb.jpg

post-9265-0-51397800-1349350750_thumb.jpg

post-9265-0-01323000-1349350729_thumb.jpg

 

 

High detail maps showing locations of secret levers, secret rooms etc can be found in my earlier post here.

 

HTH.

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No, he was thrown-out for his continual trolling and bad forum behavior.

 

His initial criticisms of the mod diminished over time and he eventually conceded that it's

generally a "good thing" though he still questioned the quality of his peers (other FM authors)...

 

I am glad to converse with him over at TTLG. They can deal with him going into troll-mode if needed.

He can enjoy himself and those antics over there. He's a happy bachelor but he still offers gifts to

his divorcee... :laugh:

 

Yeah he needed to temper his apparent contempt for everyone's hard work but refused, so was eventually banned. He lasted a lot longer then he should have. It is a shame as he did release a decent mission that pushed several boundaries mostly in scripting.

I am very excited to play this mission although haven't had time yet. Need to get you some screenshots of this mission for moddb.


I always assumed I'd taste like boot leather.

 

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Ok, I got past the last spot I was stuck and had a good half hour of enjoyment...but now I'm stuck again. I've got a bunch of blocked routes, and no keys to open them. There's the gate at the bottom of the stairs, two locked doors on the lower level, and a statue that needs a "holly hammer" that I can't find. The only keys I've found is the one that was on an AI's belt to "Florian(?)'s room" that had a breath potion in it, and a key to a cabinet that I already picked open.

 

I'm pretty sure I checked all the AI for keys, though it's possible I missed one. Any hints about where to find something to allow me to continue would be appreciated. I might once have had the patience to run around a mission searching every nook and cranny for some hint of what to do next, but not these days.

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Yes use the walkthru. Even I finished it but I'd be hard pressed to remember each step. If the bottom gates are locked, that sounds like the key that Diego posted. (The lockboxes on the wall beside the gates may be a bit hard to see).


20js9wp.jpg

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I posted a walkthrough on the previous page if you need help.

 

Thanks. I'm trying not to spoil the whole thing, but if I get stuck again I'll look there.

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Re the 'holly hammer' (sic): -

 

You need to climb up the hole in the ceiling in one of the basement rooms. On my first runthroughs, I did it by hauling down the two crates from the dining hall (near the growling demon statue), stacking them on the bed & jumping. Then I found the rope arrows

in the kitchen

, which saved a couple of trips. :P

 

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Ok, played for a bit longer tonight, but I've about had enough. There's nothing I find less enjoyable than searching through dark, massive complexes looking for the one single key that will allow me to actually progress further in the map, which seems to be what this mission is all about. The map does look pretty good in spots, and I get the sense there are some clever things about, but when you make tasks that are so unfathomable that you have to literally drop scrolls with instructions right in front of them.... Just not my cup of tea. Maybe I'll use the walkthrough at some point to get to the end and see what all the fuss is about...so far I've seen absolutely ZERO story, so I assume there must be more somewhere given the voting.

 

It's a shame, because the main floor of the chapel was great and the conversation was immersive, so I had high hopes.

 

(Btw, I had a freeze too; something I've not had in TDM before)

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I enjoyed this one. It was a bit of a key hunt, as others have pointed out, but the locations had a logic to them that made it challenging rather than frustrating (for me). From reading this thread, I knew there was some sort of big surprise toward the end, but what happened was quite a lot different from what I'd guess would happen. I've tried to navigate from that point, but have met a challenge I don't much enjoy, and that's the

undead guards who pop in when the fireball alarm is triggerd.. I squandered my gear and now have to remember how to get downstairs while avoiding the guards, as they cannot be snuck past.

Overall, this is a good mission. I like the puzzles and the setting. I thought there was enough background story to make it all seem reasonable, even though I dislike the 'oops-you-got-caught-now-get-out' element. Still, it WAS fun getting out. I didn't need to peek at hints until about three quarters through. I never use no-clip, ever. Thanks for the mission!

Edited by ithel

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I enjoyed this one. It was a bit of a key hunt, as others have pointed out, but the locations had a logic to them that made it challenging rather than frustrating (for me). From reading this thread, I knew there was some sort of big surprise toward the end, but what happened was quite a lot different from what I'd guess would happen. I've tried to navigate from that point, but have met a challenge I don't much enjoy, and that's the

undead guards who pop in when the fireball alarm is triggerd.. I squandered my gear and now have to remember how to get downstairs while avoiding the guards, as they cannot be snuck past.

Overall, this is a good mission. I like the puzzles and the setting. I thought there was enough background story to make it all seem reasonable, even though I dislike the 'oops-you-got-caught-now-get-out' element. Still, it WAS fun getting out. I didn't need to peek at hints until about three quarters through. I never use no-clip, ever. Thanks for the mission!

I've found that, assuming you've got any left ,

a rope arrow will finish them off. Might enable you to get past a couple to the exit , it did the job for me !

 

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Yeah this was

 

 

painful.

 

I can't imagine this kind of thing appealing to anyone, puzzle based adventure games died out for a reason. No one bothered to improve them, give the puzzles alternate ways of solving, its just one thin strand of logic, one hidden item somewhere you missed, one place you didn't notice. Here its that times 10, I must have gotten stuck 5 or six times with no hints as to how to progress. After finally managing to get hold of key in a spiderweb I finally get down there, with some exploration I get up to the mr bonesy which from a readable I knew what to do with his skull. Using the key I found on that door I couldn't get opened before I search the room for a way into his secret chamber... I open the wall then guess what... another locked door...

 

What really ruined it was having to find that missing lever then the room for it to get the key for the small chest... which contains the mysterious key I need, why oh why is that mandatory in order to progress? That seems like extra loot to me not something that interrupts our progress just before the good part.

 

After that it only gets more tedious, I thought the ruby was the good loot I needed but turns out I had to put it onto the gargoyle statue I hadn't noticed before. Why these abstract puzzles? A ruby in some alternate dimension to put on some gargoyle statue to get a amulet? Whats the story behind that?

This needed a hint badly or just place the gargoyle somewhere more noticeable.

 

Story, non-existent from what I've seen, apart from 2 notes on Cedric being "corrupted".

There is some voice acting from the builders & a ghost which was good.

 

Aesthetics are quite nice in the beginning, good use of lighting to so that shadows play tricks with you and hide hidden buttons or just make things creepy as hell, problem is 20 minutes in and I'm bored as hell. The lighting in the second floor in particular is to sparse making me run blind back & forth looking for keys.

 

 

Edited by TheUnbeholden

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I thought the ruby was the good loot I needed but turns out I had to put it onto the gargoyle statue

[...]

This needed a hint badly or just place the gargoyle somewhere more noticeable.

As far as I remember the statue is talking to you "my eye", so this is the hint ;)

 

 

It's been a while I was playing this mission, but I'm pretty sure there are hints to almost any key or whatever else you had to find (to be fair)

 

puzzle based adventure games died out for a reason

they're still there, refusing to die (and still a lot of people liking them, although I wouldn't count myself to them) :smile:


FM's: Builder Roads, Old Habits, Old Habits Rebuild

WIP's: Several. Although after playing Thief 4 I really wanna make a city mission.

Mapping and Scripting: Apples and Peaches

Sculptris Models and Tutorials: Obsttortes Models

My wiki articles: Obstipedia

Texture Blending in DR: DR ASE Blend Exporter

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It's been a while I was playing this mission, but I'm pretty sure there are hints to almost any key or whatever else you had to find (to be fair)

 

I haven't played this mission, and this remark isn't about it, either. But if a mission/game needs you to go on the web and check a forum for a hint more than once, then it is either badly designed, or the player approaches it the complete wrong way (which can be either a cultural misunderstanding, or the player just being daft, or just really really impatient :)

 

In any way, this isn't "fun". A game/misison should be self-contained, there should be enough hints so you can complete it on your own.

 

Or did you mean this mission has enough hints in it?

 

they're still there, refusing to die (and still a lot of people liking them, although I wouldn't count myself to them) :smile:

 

I'm not really a fan of the old-school adventure game,which are very linear (use item A on item B and solve puzzle C with the combination, or you are stuck), and very often illogical (you can dig with the spoon, but not with the spade or the half-bottle. what?)

 

But puzzle games can be fun :)

  • Like 2

"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man." -- George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950)

 

"Remember: If the game lets you do it, it's not cheating." -- Xarax

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Or did you mean this mission has enough hints in it?

that's what I've meant

which can be either a cultural misunderstanding

yep, on In the North I searched over an hour for

 

 

the secret lever (with the candle on it)

 

 

until I realized, that I was in the church, not in the chapel <_<

So I misunderstood that, too, what was really annoying at this point but nothing I would blame on the mapper (grayman in this case)

 

This FM here is similar

The main problem IMO is that you have a lot of hidden items(keys) you need and therefore lot of room to misunderstand the various number of hints

(It also seems to me that shadowhide himself isn't an english native, not sure. So he has to write his hints clearly enough but not too clear in a foreign language and the players have to understand the hints written in a for them foreign language :unsure: )


FM's: Builder Roads, Old Habits, Old Habits Rebuild

WIP's: Several. Although after playing Thief 4 I really wanna make a city mission.

Mapping and Scripting: Apples and Peaches

Sculptris Models and Tutorials: Obsttortes Models

My wiki articles: Obstipedia

Texture Blending in DR: DR ASE Blend Exporter

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that's what I've meant

 

yep, on In the North I searched over an hour for

 

 

the secret lever (with the candle on it)

 

 

until I realized, that I was in the church, not in the chapel <_<

So I misunderstood that, too, what was really annoying at this point but nothing I would blame on the mapper (grayman in this case)

 

This FM here is similar

The main problem IMO is that you have a lot of hidden items(keys) you need and therefore lot of room to misunderstand the various number of hints

(It also seems to me that shadowhide himself isn't an english native, not sure. So he has to write his hints clearly enough but not too clear in a foreign language and the players have to understand the hints written in a for them foreign language :unsure: )

 

Yeah, he is Russian, so you get a "Russian to English to German" translation probem :D

 

And I understand the problem you are having, sometimes missing a small detail can make for a lot of frustration, esp. if this is repeated in every other room. I'll have to see how I can avoid this in my mission.


"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man." -- George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950)

 

"Remember: If the game lets you do it, it's not cheating." -- Xarax

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Done and... Heh. Typical Shadowhide, always going for novelty and obnoxious complexity on purpose, remaining uncompromising to the end.

The key hunt is absolutely horrible, but it's such a painful chore that every glimmer of progression, every new and beautiful setpiece in the mission shines like a jewel and feels like a just and oh so sweet reward.

 

It's brilliant, with every meaning of the word. Colorful and flashy but tasteful, original and emotional with that end scene, atmospheric and always moving. I really felt the strange pagan magic progressing, eating away at every inch of the builder's compound, the desperation and dereliction of its priests.

 

It's rough, especially with regard to hints, layout, readables and syntax, but it's not that rough for one of Shadowhide's FMs.

I'll be sad if this really was his last mission, but then that's the perfect way to end a short and occasionally brilliant career.

 

EDIT: I also feel like it captures so well what made Thief's pagan levels so otherwordly. Uncanny.

Edited by Briareos H
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This post is just to bump the thread to announce that Shadowhide has released an updated version of his FM that's compliant with TDM 2.0 and a few other changes. The new download link is in the opening post (and here: http://rghost.net/48078929). Someone can post mirror links & I'll edit them in later, or an Admin can edit them in the first post.


20js9wp.jpg

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