Fan Mission: Old Habits by Obsttorte (2012/10/19)

[Obsttorte 1439]

Thank you ST, nice to hear that you liked it

 

For the critics:

 

- the z-fighting you mentioned isn't one, it's a lighting problem that I thought I resolved , well I was never sure what caused it

 

- wood: I know, I tried to fix this afterwards but I guess I missed some

 

I plan to do a second release of this mission in the future, but I don't know how long it wil take

I already started making my second FM but didn't worked on it for 2 weeks now

I guess I'll make the update when the second one is in beta phase what I hope I can accomplish before christmas

(so I'll have a little present for the community)

 

also thanks for the criticism, always good to try to get better IMO

[ECHELON 16]

@Echelon: you need keys for this locks

 

So there are keys for this locks? :

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Obsttorte 1439]

yes

 

 

look on the right

 

 

yes

 

 

there is a guy in the kitchen

 

 

yes

 

 

you were almost staring at it

there is a hint nearby

 

 

[ECHELON 16]

thanks.

 

However, I have to congratulate with you for lighting management. really fantastic.

 

But, (because there is always a but ),

 

the difficulty of the upper floor is beyond any logic for those who want to make 100% stealth: guards that you can not stun, some with torches, marble(!!) floors etc...

 

[Obsttorte 1439]

good to hear you liked it, thanks

 

and in regard to your spoiler

 

 

 

it is possible to ghost the upper floor, but you have to knock out the guard with the attic key via a gas arrow

so it would be 99% stealth

but yeah, I guess I'll change that in my update

 

 

[raymeld 28]

Completely stuck on this one

can someone give me a clue on where to find the key(s) to the two doors at the top of the stone stairs to the left of the lower floor on way to storeroom with two patrolling guards ( warning on lower door says closed at night per Lord A )

i've checked every body I've disposed of must have missed it somewhere!

[Obsttorte 1439]

servus

 

general hint

 

 

there are four possible locations for the key

 

 

less general hint

 

 

not all these locations are the belts of guards

 

 

detailed hint

 

 

the locations are:

the belt of one of the two guards with plating

the chest in front of the doublebed in the guard quarters

under the helmet on the table in the guard quarters

 

 

[raymeld 28]

Thanks!

[Obsttorte 1439]

no problemo

[raymeld 28]

Thank you Obsttorte , very enjoyable . My those castle rooms were cavernous! Maybe a lot of them were in olden days. Getting the scepter was easier than I thought it would be in the end. Thanks again for all the effort you put into the mission.

[Obsttorte 1439]

You're welcome

[Oldjim 154]

OK I have now finished the mission on the hardest setting getting all the loot.

The only two things which, in my opinion, need fixing are as reported earlier

getting the jewels through the window from the balcony in the courtyard and getting the telescope in the attic window. I tried knocking it with an arrow but it was knocked through the window not into the courtyard.

The other thing is a question on how to get up to the balcony in the courtyard. I never did find a rope arrow so the only way I found was

to mantle onto the roof from the ledge which I used to get into the room but this then had problems with getting down onto the balcony. It would have been better to have allowed access along the roof in front of the attic window (the one with the telescope) as this would have solved both problems I found

 

[Obsttorte 1439]

hi

 

 

on the right sight of the targets behind the streetlamp there is vine on the wall which you can climb on

you can than move to the left and just jump over the balcony

 

 

the two things you've mentioned

 

 

the purse is not suppossed to be there, that was mentioned earlier in this thread

don't know how the telescope could get through the window , but htere is something on the balcony that is quite helpful for this task

 

 

[Oldjim 154]

I tried

the oar but couldn't get that to work either

[Obsttorte 1439]

yeah, that's what you're supposed to do. Other people (including myself) had no problems with that

 

well, it's just a bonus

[Thiefette 40]

I tried

the oar but couldn't get that to work either

 

I too had difficulty with it. I didn't seem to have enough room to maniputlate it once it was off its supports. It was a good thing I got rid of the guards first as I made so much noice I'd have brought the whole army down on me.

[Springheel 4320]

Not done yet, but I just wanted to say that I am having a blast with this mission. I wasn't won over immediately, but now that I'm on the top floor I'm loving how challenging it is! I'm losing track of the number of times I've almost been caught, but I haven't had to reload yet.

[Obsttorte 1439]

thank you, nice to hear

I'm loving how challenging it is!

most people said the opposite , I somehow forgot to mention it is designed to be a bit harder than the "average" FM

[Springheel 4320]

Played a bit more tonight...I got busted a couple times right after loading, but I blame that on not being warmed up

(I accidently dropped a flashmine at my feet while trying to lockpick and got caught by the guy with the torch. Not counting that, I've been able to continue without saving, although I had to shoot the second torch-wielder with my gas arrow (getting sandwiched between TWO elite guards with torches was pretty brutal). I also alerted all the guards in the upper wing where the scepter was and had to flashbomb my way out.

 

I got stuck after that, as I couldn't find a way into the attic. There was a note that seemed to suggest climbing from the courtyard, but it was impossible to get in there without alerting the guards, so I couldn't really test out very many ways to jump up to the clear window (if that is indeed the way in).

Just read through some comments and found another option, so I'll try that tomorrow night.

 

Btw, I managed to jam the gears in the basement with a dead rat. Didn't stop the machine though.

[Springheel 4320]

Well, finally finished this. I quite enjoyed the mission overall.

I played on medium difficulty and found it just a tad too difficult on the upper floors...while dodging the one torch-wielding guard in the hallway is great and very tense as you try to lockpick in time, it's a little frustrating to then open the door to find yet another torch-carrying guard. It really just comes down to luck at that point...if the new guard is too close to the door, you're going to be spotted and there's nothing you can do if you're out of gas arrows. Although, having said that, I did get past both, without reloading, so.....

 

I really loved the room where the guard turns on the electric lights...having to catch the door as he closes it in order to sneak in and out was great.

 

It was a bit strange to have a torch-wielding guard patrolling the attic, while no one was in the nearby room with all the valuables....

 

There was a big block of z-fighting around the hanging cupboard in the kitchen, as well as a few other places.

 

The door in the attic was a bit frustrating. I thought I had gotten all the crates moved away and still couldn't open it. I didn't see that you could mantle in and had to kill the guard in order to explore with my light out to find it.

 

A few recommendations for next time:

 

-- try varying the vocals used by guards. It seemed like only 3 different ones were used and it got a bit repetitive after a while.

-- shrink the scale of the map...rooms and hallways were cavernous, which also left them feeling quite empty.

-- give some thought to the layout of your map in advance--look at example floorplans if you're making manors or castles. While the map was great fun for gameplay, the layout made no sense whatsoever from an immersion point of view (how many people come to eat there? There must have been at least twenty different dining tables in three different rooms yet only a single stove in the kitchen.)

 

 

 

 

--

[Obsttorte 1439]

thanks a lot for your feedback

 

 

give some thought to the layout of your map in advance--look at example floorplans if you're making manors or castles. While the map was great fun for gameplay, the layout made no sense whatsoever from an immersion point of view (how many people come to eat there? There must have been at least twenty different dining tables in three different rooms yet only a single stove in the kitchen.)

I see what you mean, but never thought about it before (and also other people didn't, well, at least they didn't mention it)

The door in the attic was a bit frustrating. I thought I had gotten all the crates moved away and still couldn't open it. I didn't see that you could mantle in and had to kill the guard in order to explore with my light out to find it.

This is an unintented bug due to some last-minute map changes, but I think I placed a very obvious hint there to show the player how he can get in there, so sorry

It was a bit strange to have a torch-wielding guard patrolling the attic, while no one was in the nearby room with all the valuables....

It was first intented that the guard in the hallway goes in there from time to time, but for some reasons unknown to me this screwed up the pathfinding

 

 

some of the things you've mentioned were mentioned before (no problem ) I'll see if I find the time to make a second version over the holidays (unsure)

Edited December 11, 2012 by Obsttorte

[simplen00b 97]

It really just comes down to luck at that point...if the new guard is too close to the door, you're going to be spotted and there's nothing you can do if you're out of gas arrows. Although, having said that, I did get past both, without reloading, so.....

I did comment to Obs when I was beta-testing that I felt like I often got away more by chance than by planning, but the fact is - I often got away with it. I had more "I cannot believe I didn't just get busted" moments with this mission than any other I can remember playing (which I loved) - made me wonder if he had some brilliant AI routing system in place that was engineered to give the player loads of narrow squeaks.

 

P.S. Very impressed you got past the torch-bearing guards without water-arrowing the torches. Just the idea of trying that makes me go all faint and giddy...

[Obsttorte 1439]

made me wonder if he had some brilliant AI routing system in place that was engineered to give the player loads of narrow squeaks.

or maybe just some luck with the "well, let's try this there" setup

[Springheel 4320]

 

 

I managed to dodge the first torch-guard and get to the far room (the one that eventually led to the scepter. I opened the door, and crap, there was another torch-guard looking right at me. He charged as I drew my gas arrow and fired at him. He got one hit with his sword before collapsing. Luckily the other guard was at the other end of the hall and didn't hear anything. When I opened the attic door the guard inside was at the far end, so I was able to slip in unnoticed. He did spot me when he came back to the stuck door and we played cat and mouse around the tower of crates for the longest time. Eventually he caught me when I was trying to figure out how to get

through the door, but I was able to kill him with a lucky thrust to the face.

 

 

 

I had more "I cannot believe I didn't just get busted" moments with this mission than any other I can remember playing (which I loved)

 

Yes, I had a lot of those too. That's one of the things I enjoyed the most.

[Obsttorte 1439]

I'm not sure what you mean with the "far room", but to avoid things like you've mentioned I

 

 

never stand in front of a door when opening it (if that's possible)

 

 

here's a little tip for the upper part

 

 

if you knock out the elite guard with the torch that patrols the upper hallway, you'll see that the upper floor becomes relatively easy to manage

It's also helpful if you have some water arrows left (IMO they are not needed on the lower floor)