Thief 4 is trash.

[Viktoria]

Can we, like, stop with the run-on sentence and the big words now? They make my head hurt.

 

Haha, I think they're fun.

 

If we can't go back outside and complete the bonus objective, that's linearity.

As far as I recall, the devs confirmed we can go inside/outside of areas, through doors/windows and go about our business as we choose. Upon return to these areas, things will be as we left them.

I'll see if I can find the link for everyone.

Edited November 24, 2013 by Viktoria

[Springheel]

No personal insults please.

[jay pettitt]

I guess jtr refers to the known example from the E3 Eurogamer demo where the player receives an alert cancelling the the objective to pickpocket the guard captian when entering a new area.

 

 

It's a small thing, may not even be in the final game, and maybe isn't the end of the world anyway. But it's also not as though Eidos Montreal are selling the game on the basis that there's cohesive simulated environments and emergent game play opportunities within.

 

Push comes to shove, going back and forwards is linear. jtr bemoans what looks like very limited possibilities for the player to be creative about how he or she goes back and forward. Some might argue that a next gen Thief game should push those kinds of features harder than the previous games, not less (i.e. with limited rope arrow attachment points).

Edited November 24, 2013 by jay pettitt

[jay pettitt]

Anyway - new (to me at least) moving picture show featuring bits of T4...

 

 

And yes, Stepahne Roy announces different shades of light and dark as a next gen feature. Cor blimey gov.

[Goldwell]

Anyway - new (to me at least) moving picture show featuring bits of T4...

 

http://youtu.be/nU0scGjXNTs

 

And yes, Stepahne Roy announces different shades of light and dark as a next gen feature. Cor blimey gov.

 

Wow the game keeps getting better and better. I will admit at first I was very apprehensive towards it however it has changed a fair bit (the interface at least) since E3 and since they have removed XP, Takedowns and it seems like that stupid shroud is pretty much gone this game looks very awesome. I'm really looking forward to it!

Edited November 24, 2013 by Goldwell

[Springheel]

They have not removed takedowns to my knowledge. There have been some small improvements to the HUD though, by the looks of it (transparent icons, desaturated colours, smaller rectangle for inventory instead of giant circle, etc).

[New Horizon]

Has this guy really and truly played the original games? He's talking about the 'in-between' of light and dark as if it did not exist in the original games and it certainly did.

[jay pettitt]

Yeah, it's obviously nonsense. I guess it's just something he blurted out when asked to provide a soundbite to recommend the potential of the PS4.

[jtr7]

...........

Edited February 19, 2014 by jtr7

[kyyrma]

Lots of really disheartening things in that video, although they have fixed some of their previous bad decisions like XP. The loot glint is really obnoxious, and seeing icons above the guards saying things like "Alert!" is ridiculous. Do they think players don't want to be immersed these days?

 

Here is another video, that was new to me at least:

 

 

It features some more icons popping out of guards, and the worst hidden safe in the history of hiding things. I'm afraid every house will have that identical "oddly protruding painting" that highlights when you get closer than five meters to it.

[Goldwell]

Lots of really disheartening things in that video, although they have fixed some of their previous bad decisions like XP. The loot glint is really obnoxious, and seeing icons above the guards saying things like "Alert!" is ridiculous. Do they think players don't want to be immersed these days?

 

Here is another video, that was new to me at least:

 

<snip>

 

It features some more icons popping out of guards, and the worst hidden safe in the history of hiding things. I'm afraid every house will have that identical "oddly protruding painting" that highlights when you get closer than five meters to it.

 

Well if you keep the icons etc turned on yeah it will be annoying but you know you can turn that stuff off right?

 

I do hate how they try to cater to the lets say "call of duty" class of gamers but at the same time they're a business and want as much profit as possible which is obviously the motivation behind a lot of decisions like that.

 

But hey as long as we can turn off the baby hand holding stuff i'm happy.

[jtr7]

............

Edited February 19, 2014 by jtr7

[Viktoria]

Well if you keep the icons etc turned on yeah it will be annoying but you know you can turn that stuff off right?

 

I do hate how they try to cater to the lets say "call of duty" class of gamers but at the same time they're a business and want as much profit as possible which is obviously the motivation behind a lot of decisions like that.

 

But hey as long as we can turn off the baby hand holding stuff i'm happy.

 

Your post is full of logic and sense and I couldn't agree with you more.

[jay pettitt]

Off the screen isn't good enough if systems built with them in mind are affecting gameplay.

 

That worries me too. Push comes to shove, features like T4's focus ability aren't there arbitrarily. They're a solution to a design problem. Take the solution away and you've still got the problem. I'm not sure how a game full of unresolved design problems promises to be a classic (or future classic) Thief experience, hardcore or otherwise.

Edited November 25, 2013 by jay pettitt

[Loa4ever]

The loot glint is really obnoxious, and seeing icons above the guards saying things like "Alert!" is ridiculous. Do they think players don't want to be immersed these days?

Apparently they do not I'm afraid :\, because.... well, you know, as a gamer you are suppose to be told when they are alert, because you never played a thief game before; or something similar. Or simply because you aren't intelligent enough to know when a guard is alert. I'm afraid we will see things like this in our games, a shame.

[kyyrma]

But hey as long as we can turn off the baby hand holding stuff i'm happy.

Your post is full of logic and sense and I couldn't agree with you more.

 

Unfortunately this rarely works out well. Designers create a game around those systems (there is simply no way a team would have enough time to balance each level for both the players playing with and without quest markers, loot glint, awareness indicators, etc. any variations thereof) and when you disable them, you'll run into situations where the level doesn't flow as intended.

 

A very good example would be the Professional mode in Hitman Absolution, which is an absolute trainwreck. Or disabling item glow in Deus Ex: Human Revolution, which also made the weakened walls invisible. Or trying to play Splinter Cell: Blacklist without the slow-mo instant takedown ability, where it is painfully obvious many rooms have guard placement set with Mark & Execute in mind.

 

[rant]

 

This is really something that I hate about modern games in general. I think looking at The Elder Scrolls is a good example.

 

In Morrowind you would find books that describe vaguely a hidden ruin or something similar. Sometimes you even updated your journal automatically with this information. You could then decide to go and search for this hidden ruin in your own power, uncovering more clues as you go. When you finally put all the clues together and found the place it was an amazing feeling.

 

In Oblivion and Skyrim, you would open a book and BAM, you have a new quest "Find the lost artifact." Activate that quest and you get a quest marker pointing you right at the goddamn location, even if it wasn't even mentioned in the whole book! Its terrible, lazy, instant gratification. And I wonder who it caters to, as games like Minecraft are immensely popular which to me suggests that people still like to actively explore the unknown instead of being spoonfed everything.

 

[/rant]

Edited November 25, 2013 by kyyrma

[Lux]

And I wonder who it caters to, [...]

 

Seriously? It caters to the whole of the world and buddy its a sad state of affairs.

 

There are plenty of other examples out there.

[kyyrma]

Seriously? It caters to the whole of the world and buddy its a sad state of affairs.

 

There are plenty of other examples out there.

 

Buddy, you are aware that P4R is a satire website? Nothing posted there is true.

 

You'd think one with old-school gaming skills could have deducted that

 

Usually they are pretty subtle, but articles like this or this should give will give it off.

Edited November 25, 2013 by kyyrma

[Sotha]

kyyrma, I completely agree with your rant.

 

I remember, in oblivion, a ruin that seemed to have a puzzle leading to a hidden chamber no one had visited since the ancient times. The premise was exciting! What could be beneath the stone slab?

 

I thought it to be a puzzle, maybe a button combination to tease my brain, maybe an ancient carving to decipher... But no.. It was just a locked door which opened when you had a quest item which was left to be found while a big red arrow pointed at its direction.

 

Looking at modern games I feel ashamed. Behold! The decay of western civilization, right in front of your eyes!

 

Are we really that stupid, do we really have so low attention span? Why do people play these games, where there is no challenge and thus no feeling of accomplishment. Just drudgery, mindlessly following the big red arrow.

[ungoliant]

Just drudgery, mindlessly following the big red arrow.

 

First it was "who has time to read" when you can see the movie. now its the big red arrow. I guess its a hallmark of the age of information, where all marks of "progress" relate to how quickly information and experiences can be processed, and the sheer volume of that content / data that you can fit in and store in as few brain cells / bytes as possible. more content that takes less time to process or experience is always better. right?

[jay pettitt]

There is a sense where you're kinda left asking, oh so it tells you what to do, where to go, how to solve the puzzles - but you have to keep it topped up with readily available tokens - and... seriously, that's your game?

[vvGarrettvv]

@kyyrma: I couldn`t agree more.

@sotha: I`m a music-instructor (music&drums) and in ongoing communication with my scolars. My girlfriend (wife @14.04.2014 :-) ) is

working in an orphanage. SO: Yes! kids definetely got a lower attention span. And some fo my scolars ask me if I know

this game in which we could be a thief " Thie4f! Woaow! Cool. And if the guards see me, I can kill them ."

What do you think, I´m telling them? :-/

They really like the " big red arrow "-thing. For them it`s kind of normal to be guided through a game ( I HATE THIS, but should I tell them? If I would do, I`m the pooper...)

So. Yes! unfortunately = These are the signs of the times.

Good thing is, that the TDM is old -fashioned :-))))

[Lux]

Buddy, you are aware that P4R is a satire website? Nothing posted there is true.

 

You'd think one with old-school gaming skills could have deducted that

 

Usually they are pretty subtle, but articles like this or this should give will give it off.

 

Yeah, I was shocked to read it initially and honestly I didn't think much of it because most all of the information in the article is "quoted".

 

Also, a reputable place had linked to it... I've never heard of P4R before.

 

Thanks for point that out, kyyrma. I have egg on my face!

[jay pettitt]

yumyum

[simplen00b]

Really liked this article: http://www.p4rgaming.com/new-mirrors-edge-uses-no-buttons-in-its-controls-to-improve-accessibility/

 

OK, they're pretending to say it about Mirror's Edge, but we know which game they really mean.