TDM Engine Development Page

[revelator]

Only in that map ?.

 

Ill have a look but if it is only in one map then it sounds like something that might have gone bad with it,

like the portal in crucible of omens that closed to early causing the sky to bleed through a solid wall.

 

Blinking sounds like something unrelated though so lets see.

[revelator]

Hmm no blinking here so at first i thought everything was ok, but then i changed back to r_shadows 1 and there is definatly something fishy going on.

r_shadows 1 looks fine, r_shadows 2 also looked ok but then i noticed a huge black outline covering parts of the starscape.

It also seems its not static cause if i move a certain distance it dissapears.

 

this resembles the bug i had in another map, but there the outline was blue not black, so easier to notice.

 

But if this is a portal bug would it not affect stencil shadows as well ?

[revelator]

with stencil shadows

 

 

with shadowmaps

 

 

Its a bit hard to see but it should be noticeable

[HMart]

Hmm no blinking here so at first i thought everything was ok, but then i changed back to r_shadows 1 and there is definatly something fishy going on.

r_shadows 1 looks fine, r_shadows 2 also looked ok but then i noticed a huge black outline covering parts of the starscape.

It also seems its not static cause if i move a certain distance it dissapears.

 

this resembles the bug i had in another map, but there the outline was blue not black, so easier to notice.

 

But if this is a portal bug would it not affect stencil shadows as well ?

 

Could it be the shadow mapping code not being handled by invisible dev materials and so a invisible brush is casting a shadow? This would mean that many more brushes using such materials would have this bug tho.

Edited September 11, 2018 by HMart

[revelator]

Yeah that would affect more maps then, it seems to only happen in a few, though it might be because you need to noclip above obstructions to notice it in other maps.

Ill see if that is the case, but tbh it looks like the viewport is not resetting properly when shadowmaps are on.

i noticed a comment in duzenkos code mentioning that, so this might actually be it in visible terms.

[revelator]

Not good with shaders so im going to ask some questions.

Am i right when assuming this is not peter panning ? if i understood it correctly peter panning just means the shadow newer connects fully with the ground (or floats a bit above it).

 

But peter panning the sky would just be rediculous, or might this actually happen ?.

 

The weird thing is the outline is a perfect square (a huge one even) and does not seem to represent any object in the world. The rendertool for shadowcasting does not show anything that should cast a shadow with that form unless it was actually throwing a shadow of the whole map onto the skyportal, if that is the case ouch.

 

noclipping a few maps showed a few others who had this bug, but it does not seem to be consistent, so finding out which conditions cause this is going to ruin my sleep lol.

[duzenko]

Not sure what it has to do with shaders

Finding what this thing is is half of the solution.

[revelator]

Was mentioned in a thread elsewhere with shadowmap pitfalls, bias etc.

Just making sure its not related before i go bughunting

 

It does not seem to be a thing at all, that is why im a little mystified about it. In fact i do not think its a shadow at all now cause the other map i mentioned witht this bug had a blue square in the sky not a black one, but else they behaved the same.

[revelator]

Its the freaking moon well actually its a combination of some unlucky circumstances, the maps affected seem to have a world box that is no bigger than the highest building (checked by noclipping) in fact those maps have places where the world actually is smaller than the highest object, causing some weird shadow glitches like the moon now casting darkness instead of light.

[revelator]

https://s8.postimg.cc/u3sy40ncl/rightful_2018-09-12_09.52.23.jpg

 

kept it full size because it can be hard to see on screenshot links.

 

notice the edges of the the moon where it should cast a lightray.

[revelator]

Not sure what the best way to get around this one would be, id propose a distance check so that we do not draw shadows further than a set distance, or in another word only close to the players view. Does this sound ok ?

 

After i finally found out what this bug was it turns out it is caused by bad geometry of the map, this is also why it was so inconsistent, since not all maps are affected.

[duzenko]

Not sure what the best way to get around this one would be, id propose a distance check so that we do not draw shadows further than a set distance, or in another word only close to the players view. Does this sound ok ?

 

After i finally found out what this bug was it turns out it is caused by bad geometry of the map, this is also why it was so inconsistent, since not all maps are affected.

It's not urgent, we have time to think about the best fix.

[revelator]

Yeah would be bad to break other stuff by fixing this one wrongly.

[duzenko]

 

Reap As You Sow issues:

• Shadow maps looking bad outside - disable for big lights?
• Pump room water distorting near objects

 

Added a new cvar to control how big a light can use shadow maps

[nbohr1more]

Pretty neat.

 

Too bad stencil shadows are invisible when soft shadows are enabled.

 

If you are going to get hybrid mode working with soft shadows, I think you'll need to normalize the softening behavior somehow.

Currently r_softShadowsRadius 8 in shadow maps is about equivalent to r_softShadowsRadius 2 in stencil shadow mode.

[duzenko]

Pretty neat.

 

Too bad stencil shadows are invisible when soft shadows are enabled.

 

If you are going to get hybrid mode working with soft shadows, I think you'll need to normalize the softening behavior somehow.

Currently r_softShadowsRadius 8 in shadow maps is about equivalent to r_softShadowsRadius 2 in stencil shadow mode.

Appreciate the testing

...

Couldn't get that fixed tonight. Reverted my bigger changes and for now only committed separate FBO's for cubemap and stencil shadows. To be continued.

[duzenko]

Pretty neat.

 

Too bad stencil shadows are invisible when soft shadows are enabled.

 

If you are going to get hybrid mode working with soft shadows, I think you'll need to normalize the softening behavior somehow.

Currently r_softShadowsRadius 8 in shadow maps is about equivalent to r_softShadowsRadius 2 in stencil shadow mode.

Try now.

Note that when falling back to stencil the shadows are not softened. Reasons:

• for contact hardening we'd have to do both stencil and shadow map render which is probably going to get expensive - want to hear from other devs first. This is not so much the cost of actually drawing shadows as the cost of additional texture samples in the interaction fragment shader.
• general murkiness of stencil SS due to its screen-space nature
• adding more condition checks to code which is already not looking exactly pretty
• personally not excited to invest more time in stencil shadows at this point
• normalizing soft radius is something I'd need @stgatilov's input on

[revelator]

Been away for some days due to training but interresting

 

Have to check the commits to see what was done

[duzenko]

Been away for some days due to training but interresting

 

Have to check the commits to see what was done

How is that skybox bug? Any progress?

[nbohr1more]

Works as advertised.

 

I think Stgatilov wanted to look at using a "low resolution" shadow map as an input

for contact hardening softening behavior for stencil shadows. So if you got the softening

part done with the same method on both Shadow Maps and Stencil Shadows that would

be 90% done.

 

With that said, I will suggest that it wouldn't be too hard to add a bias factor to the shader

that toggles radius_size vs (radius_size / 4 for stencil) when in hybrid mode and then render both

styles of softening?

[duzenko]

Works as advertised.

 

I think Stgatilov wanted to look at using a "low resolution" shadow map as an input

for contact hardening softening behavior for stencil shadows. So if you got the softening

part done with the same method on both Shadow Maps and Stencil Shadows that would

be 90% done.

I'm wary of adding more code weight to the current solution on my own. I would like a peer review first. I suspect some of my softener shader code to be suboptimal at best. And I would really like someone to figure out the "side blocker" math.

Re that particular idea I particularly need @stgatilov's input.

 

 

With that said, I will suggest that it wouldn't be too hard to add a bias factor to the shader

that toggles radius_size vs (radius_size / 4 for stencil) when in hybrid mode and then render both

styles of softening?

Right, that should be straightforward. The big deal is to balance it between the decent output quality and GPU class requirement.

 

In other words, I feel a bit out of my league here.

[nbohr1more]

How is that skybox bug? Any progress?

 

I would try reverting the transparency change in rev 7661.

 

I'll test that when I get enough PC time.

[revelator]

Trying to get a hold on a standing workstation cause im having problems sitting down in front of my PC atm.

 

well strange thing happens here, world is now fullbright edit: had to delete DarkMod.cfg its back to normal now.

atleast it allowed me to clearly see where the skybox goes bonkers.

 

It seems to be a map bug to me cause even with SS on, this map clips off the top of the buildings "no better way to describe it im afraid".

Should be rather noticable with high gamma just try and walk around while looking at the top of the highest buildings.

with SM on i still get the dark block in skybox to in that map, looks like farclip is messed up but it only affects a few maps.

[duzenko]

It seems to be a map bug to me cause even with SS on, this map clips off the top of the buildings "no better way to describe it im afraid".

Should be rather noticable with high gamma just try and walk around while looking at the top of the highest buildings.

with SM on i still get the dark block in skybox to in that map, looks like farclip is messed up but it only affects a few maps.

You don't see how we can fix it on the renderer level? What about @nbohr1more's suggestion above?

[revelator]

Not sure it can be fixed on renderer level, but we could try with nbohr1mores suggestion.

Maybe its the same bug i have in crucible of omens, in that one it is just a far away solid object that acts like a portal untill you get closer.

Unfortunatly it is hard to see in screenshots in that particular map, but what happens is that a solid object "a wall in this case" lets the skybox shine through at a far away distance.

 

Hmm this could indeed be caused by a bug with transparency after further thought, ill have a look at the commit in question.