Jump to content
The Dark Mod Forums
Sign in to follow this  
Springheel

A new way of looking at Thief 4

Recommended Posts

Only when it suits your argument, otherwise he's NuGarrett.

 

And yeah, that was my point about Final Fantasy. They're all different games that are judged independently but are under the umbrella of 'Final Fantasy' because they're all made by Square and are RPGs. Picking up on the fact that there's a guy called Garrett and saying that means it must adhere to the values and mechanics of the first three is nonsense. That's like taking Final Fantasy and saying that since there's a Cid, a Biggs and a Wedge in almost all of them, they must all be the same but revamped since they're in a series and share similarities.

 

That's where you're making a mistake. Different characters can (and probably should) be different, as well as different worlds, different stories, etc. In this case were talking about the same character. What you're implying is that it would be nonsense to expect Sherlock Holmes to remain British, arrogant, and an avid smoker, or to expect superman to be able to fly, throughout both their series'.

 

Given a well told turn of events, Sherlock could stop being arrogant or a smoker, but not British.

 

Well then if it's not NuGarrett, what is it? It's certainly not Garrett Garrett because he has a completely different voice, methodology and frame of mind given the coverage thus far.

 

I don't know. I'll have to play the game and see. It's nothing new to see characters evolve.

Edited by Skaruts

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Friday the 13th ended up in space

 

 

From my experience, when a franchise goes to space it usually doesn't mean good things.

 

I didn't enjoy any of Jason, Leprechaun, Hellraiser in space. I thought they were hard to watch and had moments that I cringed at.

 

That being said, the first Friday the 13th and the first two Hellraisers I think are excellent movies. Leprechaun was just okay.

 

I love horror movies.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah but what about, "Machete Kills! Again! In Space....!"

 

Robert Rodriguez... yeah I said it. ::[trying for a straight face]::

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can't take the Machete movies seriously to begin with, so they have a slight advantage to movies that established themselves as more serious and less goofy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
They've already changed a load of things people have decried but all those people do is check it off and yell "next" in a 65 page circle-jerk disregarding the efforts of people who've worked at it for years, simply because it doesn't resemble old memories they have. I don't understand the mentality that the next game in the series has to play and look the same as those before it, only shinier and more optimized

 

Sorry, but that's a complete straw-man of the opposing side, and if there's one thing that's not good for honest, mature disagreements, it's that.

 

disregarding the efforts of people who've worked at it for years

 

How long people have worked on a project, or how much effort they've put into it, should have no bearing on your opinion of its quality. This is a product for purchase, not an art project from your kid.

 

I don't understand the mentality that the next game in the series has to play and look the same as those before it, only shinier and more optimized

 

I don't understand it either, but I haven't actually met anyone who HAS that opinion.

 

simply because it doesn't resemble old memories they have

 

Again, this is completely misrepresenting the opinions of the people who are angry about T4. There are very legitimate reasons to dislike many of the design decisions in the new game, many of which are fully explained in the thread you like to dismiss as a "circle jerk".

 

My OP was not intended to suggest that hating the game isn't a valid position. It's just that, for me, I've realized that I hated plenty of elements of TDS too, and there's no reason to assume I won't enjoy T4 to the same degree.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From my experience, when a franchise goes to space it usually doesn't mean good things.

 

I didn't enjoy any of Jason, Leprechaun, Hellraiser in space. I thought they were hard to watch and had moments that I cringed at.

 

That being said, the first Friday the 13th and the first two Hellraisers I think are excellent movies. Leprechaun was just okay.

 

I love horror movies.

 

Oh yeah, it ended up absolutely terrible.

My OP was not intended to suggest that hating the game isn't a valid position.

 

Yeah, I know, my main issue is the amount of hate directed at it before it's even been released and the argument that it won't live up to its predecessors, despite making very few attempts to make similarities or laying claim to the Looking Glass legacy.

Edited by Airship Ballet

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yeah, I know, my main issue is the amount of hate directed at it before it's even been released

 

There is a limit to how much you can know about a game without actually playing it, true, but if there's enough information released ahead of time, it's possible to predict whether or not you'll hate it with some degree of accuracy. Since liking and hating things is quite subjective it's hard to argue how much information is "enough".

 

and the argument that it won't live up to its predecessors, despite making very few attempts to make similarities or laying claim to the Looking Glass legacy.

 

Not sure what you mean here. Are you saying that SE and Eidos haven't layed claim to the legacy? Or that the people hating the game haven't?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is a limit to how much you can know about a game without actually playing it, true, but if there's enough information released ahead of time, it's possible to predict whether or not you'll hate it with some degree of accuracy. Since liking and hating things is quite subjective it's hard to argue how much information is "enough".

 

The only issue with this is that after you've developed a predisposition, you really have to be wowwed to go back on your beliefs.

 

Without this predisposition you can enter the game world and experience it unbiased and draw your own conclusions from the experience.

 

 

"You shall no longer take things at second or third hand, nor look through the eyes of the dead, nor feed on the spectres in books. You shall listen to all sides, and filter them from yourself"

 

Walt Witman

 

 

"Age is no better, hardly so well, qualified for an instructor as youth, for it has not profited so much as it has lost. One may almost doubt if the wisest man has learned anything of absolute value by living. Practically, the old have no very important advice to give the young, their own experience has been so partial, and their lives have been such miserable failures, for private reasons, as they must believe; and it may be that they have some faith left which belies that experience, and they are only less young than they were. I have lived some thirty years on this planet, and I have yet to hear the first syllable of valuable or even earnest advice from my seniors. They have told me nothing, and probably cannot tell me anything to the purpose. Here is life, an experiment to a great extent untried by me; but it does not avail me that they have tried."

 

Henry David Thoreau

 

 

Here is Thief, an experiment to a great extent untried by me.

Edited by Lux

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not sure what you mean here. Are you saying that SE and Eidos haven't layed claim to the legacy? Or that the people hating the game haven't?

 

Eidos and SE haven't. If they have, shame on them, no denying that.

 

I'm neither generalizing nor misrepresenting the opinions of "people who are angry about T4" but rather the people who've already made up their minds about it. There's a lot of coverage out by now that details a lot of the game, and it's perfectly okay to form an opinion based on that. What is irritating is the petty way in which some people with negative views have simply condemned it. Even then, even with such a binary view of things they've seen, it's fine to opt out of it. The issue I have is with people who are saying over and over again that it's crap and they'll never play it and this is why and this is why and then agreeing with one another perpetually, probably until release. Posting the next bit of coverage and scoffing about it to one another, seeing statements that are either ambiguous or negligible and just viewing it negatively, having already made their minds up. Those select few are circle-jerking and casting a really bad light on people who just don't like the idea of the game as presented thus far, like you and Skaruts. They're acting like the kind of people who call themselves "true" fans and the like. If you could pass your mature don't-know-for-sure-until-it's-here mentality over to those types, we'd be golden.

 

With regards to it not being representative of particular people and their posts, it is, and I can see them, I just don't want to go pointing fingers since the last thing I want is discussion turning to argument.

Edited by Airship Ballet

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Personally I think Springheel does like the look of the game. I think its the other things that put him off and obviously I can't speak for him. I'm sure he'll chime in, but that's just the notion I've gathered from reading his posts on the subject.

 

I do have an artistic background though and visually at least the game looks very interesting. Whether the mechanics/story fail it or not.

 

I want to play it just to see the world they've created.

Edited by Lux

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The only issue with this is that after you've developed a predisposition, you really have to be wowwed to go back on your beliefs.

Without this predisposition you can enter the game world and experience it unbiased and draw your own conclusions from the experience.

 

Well, that's true enough. But you'd have to work awfully hard to not get any information at all about a game like Thief when you frequent fan forums.

 

In addition, we're talking about a product you pay money for. You could make a case that the prudent thing to do is get as much information as possible before spending your money, rather than giving it away without any idea whether you'll like the product or not.

 

I have lived some thirty years on this planet, and I have yet to hear the first syllable of valuable or even earnest advice from my seniors.

 

Well he sounds rather full of himself. :)

 

 

Eidos and SE haven't. If they have, shame on them, no denying that.

 

So you're saying that Eidos has not laid claim to the Looking Glass legacy, and has made "few attempts to make similarities"? I'm still not sure I understand you then. When a company releases a game with the same name as a beloved classic and talks about how they've stayed true to the DNA of the originals, I would think that's exactly what they're doing. Have they ever said anything remotely like "This Thief is not similar to the originals"??

 

The issue I have is with people who are saying over and over again that it's crap and they'll never play it and this is why and this is why and then agreeing with one another perpetually, probably until release. Posting the next bit of coverage and scoffing about it to one another, seeing statements that are either ambiguous or negligible and just viewing it negatively, having already made their minds up.

 

Well, if you agree that it's fine for people to form opinions in advance based on the wealth of evidence we've seen, then why should this bother you? Would it be okay for people to say over and over again how great it's going to be and how excited they are to play it, and that they can't wait? And talking about each bit of coverage that comes out, taking ambiguous statements and theorizing about how good it might be, and all agreeing with each other? Say like the Crucible of Omens thread? I have a hard time imagining someone showing up in that thread and chastising people for making up their minds until they've played it.

 

Some people just don't like negativity in general, which is fine, and if someone wants to stay away from negativity they should by all means do so. But I don't see any reason to say that negative opinions are less valid or less appropriate than positive ones, if they're founded on decent evidence.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think primarily by taking Thief in the direction they have, they've distanced themselves from the original IP. I can't speak for them with regards to whether or not they intended it to follow on from the first few but given the ommissions and changes they made, they seem to consider it more of a reboot. I feel like they'd be crapping on the originals as much as people imply if they, say, took Stephen Russell and gave him lines that mocked his Looking Glass rendition. A good example was the edgy protagonist of the newest Devil May Cry, wherein they had a white mop brush fall on his head that looked a lot like the original character's hair. Then he said "not in a million years" or something like that and threw it off in disgust. That is crapping on its roots, but they seem to be doing their own thing with the same name, similar to how they translated Deus Ex into Human Revolution. If they ever claimed that it's true to the originals then they're completely wrong and should feel pretty bad, but that won't stop me judging the game on its own merits once it's released.

 

I agree with you 100%: negativity based on evidence is fine. It's the snobbery, self-entitled attitude and close-mindedness of the select few that gets me. The way I see it is that if you've made your mind up you've nothing left to say. I think that beyond a certain point anything you say is redundant and tends towards self-indulgence. These are the kinds of people that rarely make allowances for good qualities in something they've set their sights on and cherry-pick both responses and coverage that suits their frame of mind. I've no problem with being negative, and only a mild issue with people who jump the gun and condemn something so early provided they back it up. It's honestly just the attitude of some; I'm by no means generalizing because the same archetypal people crop up every time a sequel is announced. Those people need to get over themselves.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Did you ever play Resident Evil (the remake)? *THAT* is how you do a reboot/remake of a game. It was a massive improvement in graphics and sound quality, it added lots of new content (and nasty surprises!) and it was very unforgiving in terms of difficulty. If you didn't destroy the zombies properly, they would get back up later and charge after you much more aggressively than before.

  • Like 1

--- War does not decide who is right, war decides who is left.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

EM posted new footage of Thief this time (finally) without commentary or edits just pure gameplay footage

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAQhxHmptS8


The Accountant
Part 1: Thieves and Heirs | Part 2: New In town

 

Shadows of Northdale Campaign

ACT I | ACT II

Stand Alone Missions
Lord Edgar's Bathhouse | Spring Cleaning

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

...........

Edited by jtr7

A skunk was badgered--the results were strong.

I hope that something better comes along.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

nice to have some footage without some douche talking about how much they respect the franchise dna during a 40xp headshot.

It looks fair, but its also someone playing this trying to put the best foot forward for the game. show me footage of a gamer playing this and i'll show you a video of a guy repeatedly swooping into a wall while trying to jump on a barrel.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

..............

Edited by jtr7

A skunk was badgered--the results were strong.

I hope that something better comes along.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey I just noticed something about that Thief video, it's description shows:

 

THIEF will be out on February 25 (North America), 27 (Australia) and 28 (worldwide) for PC, PS3, PS4, Xbox 360 and Xbox One

 

I thought it was 29th or 28th, that's nice.


I always assumed I'd taste like boot leather.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Any notable audio moments? That's the big reason for asking for commentary-less footage. B-)

Hardly any... :(

 

Hollywoodish overly bassy and sensationalist whooshes and wushes, some questionable voice acting (some good too), and some vainglorious speech lines that don't contradict what I read on an article: "The guards are blank, thuggish enemies".

 

Apart from sounds, I just can't stand when they make the camera fly away from inside the character in these games... I saw the tower before it flew away thank you. And even if I didn't I'd like to find it myself thank you. It feels much better when you think "Oh! I can see the tower from here!! I almost missed it. Nice touch!" instead of when you think "Yea yea I see the tower, now let me play".

 

Whether the game is going to be fun or not, still can't say. I remain disengaged... That the game looks aesthetically beautiful, is irrelevant to me until the rest of it gets me engaged.

 

One thing I can say with full certainty by now, though, given all the distractions (referring to the camera thing, cutscenes, dubious voice acting, and sensationalist sounds - not the hud and stuff, though the generic hud is in itself a distraction for me): this game will be the game with the most potential for imersiveness and still the least imersive game I've played in a long time.

Edited by Skaruts

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...