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Bikerdude

No Honor Among Thieves by Goldchocobo, 3.0 update by bikerdude (2015/05/30)

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This puzzle was part of the map from the very first version, but maybe I will import the triggered glowing eyes from the gatehouse missing to make it more abvious.

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I think I had two problems with this puzzle. Hmm, guess I'd better put the whole thing under a spoiler cover

 

First, when you go into the room you suffer damage and there's a completely obscure message on the floor. Ok, I obviously haven't discovered the clue to how to disable the security system or whatever needs to be done ... except, there is no such clue, the incomprehensible message on the floor is the whole story.

 

So, I come to this thread and see that I have to walk the room and that the skulls are a clue. I die and die (restarted a lot of times) until I finally twig that there's a wafer thin passage in the line of sight of each skull, and the only thing I can pick up is the goblet in the middle. Meh.

 

So: there's no text explaining or hinting what needs to be done, and without perfect knowledge solving the puzzle forces repeated death. This doesn't make a good combination.

 

Actually, I haven't tried -- could I have just dived into the middle of the room and grabbed the goblet? I presume not.

 

 

 

It's an old puzzle from an old mission, so I guess my grumbles have little significance.

 

Is the Forest the last part of the campaign? It seems to end somewhat suddenly with a bit of a dangling loose end --

what about the Archbishop, then?

 

 

Can you explain how the text is meant to guide the player to solve the puzzle? That's an even bigger mystery to me!

Edited by Araneidae

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Yes, I am curious about those 2 questions, too.
@Araneidae: I didn't understand how the security system worked, so I jumped in quickly, grabbed the goblet, and used a health potion to heal the damage.

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Can you explain how the text is meant to guide the player to solve the puzzle? That's an even bigger mystery to me!

 

Yes, I am curious about those 2 questions, too.

@Araneidae: I didn't understand how the security system worked, so I jumped in quickly, grabbed the goblet, and used a health potion to heal the damage.

I'm confused as well on this topic.

Running 3 hours across the mansion and re-reading everything for clues.

 

The mission is great but the level of how cryptic this is Myst-like.

Edited by Anderson

"I really perceive that vanity about which most men merely prate — the vanity of the human or temporal life. I live continually in a reverie of the future. I have no faith in human perfectibility. I think that human exertion will have no appreciable effect upon humanity. Man is now only more active — not more happy — nor more wise, than he was 6000 years ago. The result will never vary — and to suppose that it will, is to suppose that the foregone man has lived in vain — that the foregone time is but the rudiment of the future — that the myriads who have perished have not been upon equal footing with ourselves — nor are we with our posterity. I cannot agree to lose sight of man the individual, in man the mass."...

- 2 July 1844 letter to James Russell Lowell from Edgar Allan Poe.

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Finished it tonight.

Only words of prasie for everyone involved in the creation of this mission.
By now, after 5 years since the mission's inception its seems more standardized and on par with some other great FM's hear. The campaign format adds an additional layer of narrative bliss. This was a real pleasure to go through.

The only things is that I felt that the story left things a little in the air. But mystery is an indispensable part of Thief & TDM!

 

 

Just a few things I would underline to be hinted somehow on the last mission:

 

-I find that the puzzle concerning the chalice is not as clear as it could be. I never found the difference in the skull's external view and was really puzzled why some would let me live and the others would kill me right away. So I just played the last mission on easy.
-Figuring out that it was Nathan at the cemetery and it was specifically that piece of evidence in the box was what I needed was hard for me to figure. I thought that it was Billie's body for some reason or just some random adventure seeker who was bored at the mansion.
It's very easy to be mislead into thinking that the second piece of evidence is inside the mansion rather than outside it. That the locker near Nathan at the cemetary is just more loot and nothing significant.

 

Edited by Anderson

"I really perceive that vanity about which most men merely prate — the vanity of the human or temporal life. I live continually in a reverie of the future. I have no faith in human perfectibility. I think that human exertion will have no appreciable effect upon humanity. Man is now only more active — not more happy — nor more wise, than he was 6000 years ago. The result will never vary — and to suppose that it will, is to suppose that the foregone man has lived in vain — that the foregone time is but the rudiment of the future — that the myriads who have perished have not been upon equal footing with ourselves — nor are we with our posterity. I cannot agree to lose sight of man the individual, in man the mass."...

- 2 July 1844 letter to James Russell Lowell from Edgar Allan Poe.

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Araneidae,

Originally I had planned NHAT to be a 5 mission campaign. Unforunately, after having children, building 2 businesses, and life in general happened, I found myself needing to sacrifice at least one hobby :(.

Of course, that didn't stop me from suddenly jumping back into the mix 3 years later to work on The Gatehouse with Bikerdude, but that's the story.

I do have a script kicking around my brain for the complete NHAT story, however.

 

 


Is the Forest the last part of the campaign? It seems to end somewhat suddenly with a bit of a dangling loose end --

what about the Archbishop, then?

 

 

Can you explain how the text is meant to guide the player to solve the puzzle? That's an even bigger mystery to me!

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Thanks Anderson!!! It tickles me pink to see people still enjoying NHAT 6 years after it's inception.

 

Finished it tonight.

Only words of prasie for everyone involved in the creation of this mission.
By now, after 5 years since the mission's inception is seems more standardized and on par with some other great FM's hear. The campaign format adds an additional layer of narrative bliss. This was a real pleasure to go through.

The only things is that I felt that the story left things a little in the air. But mystery is an indispensable part of Thief & TDM!

 

 

Just a few things I would underline to be hinted somehow on the last mission:

 

-I find that the puzzle concerning the chalice is not as clear as it could be. I never found the difference in the skull's external view and was really puzzled why some would let me live and the others would kill me right away. So I just played the last mission on easy.
-Figuring out that it was Nathan at the cemetery and it was specifically that piece of evidence in the box was what I needed was hard for me to figure. I thought that it was Billie's body for some reason or just some random adventure seeker who was bored at the mansion.
It's very easy to be mislead into thinking that the second piece of evidence is inside the mansion rather than outside it. That the locker near Nathan at the cemetary is just more loot and nothing significant.

 

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I do have a script kicking around my brain for the complete NHAT story, however.

Should you want to move forward with that, just let me know. :-)

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Originally I had planned NHAT to be a 5 mission campaign.

 

 

 

 

No wonder the campaign seemed rather incomplete, like we don't know the fate of the Archbishop after NHAT finishes.


"Let me guess - little blue men with three heads stole your sweetroll?"

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Solid campaign, very well-designed environment and you can feel the work attached to it. Some elements might be a bit confusing through, but nevertheless well done! The ending is quite abrupt, as some people above already mentioned!

 

 

The puzzle is in my opinion more irritating than amusing - it just feels arbitrary and clueless ...

 

Edited by Silverd

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WOW. I haven't played every FM out there for DM but this is my favourite so far. It just gelled with me. Amazing campaign.

 

Some critical feedback:

 

  • Maybe consider allowing the shop between levels and to use gold which has been looted? Just seems like a no-brainer for a campaign?
  • This guy got stuck, made my life easier. Bonk.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/41236265/forum%20thread%2020151202/nhat3_2015-12-01_05.21.01.jpg

  • Another, with save.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/41236265/forum%20thread%2020151202/nhat3_2015-12-01_21.23.37.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/41236265/forum%20thread%2020151202/NPC_stuck_2.zip

  • Is that an old version of the theme I hear at the menu?
  • The map uses door hardware (doorknob) to show doors which aren't meant to be opened ever. But there are some doors in some maps (like the back of the estate in Forest) that are inconsistent with this.
  • I thought the game was supposed to stop things if they collide?

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/41236265/forum%20thread%2020151202/nhat3_2015-12-01_20.59.32.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/41236265/forum%20thread%2020151202/nhat3_2015-12-01_21.03.47.jpg

  • Is it the FM's fault that I have to load the entire previous map just to continue the campaign if I forgot to save at the start of the next map? Never played a campaign before in DM and this just seems very inefficient of autosaving between missions.

 

 

I hope one day we get the whole thing! :)

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I finally played the updated campaign. Solid work all around, but.

 

This is a bit about me being a stick in the mud, especially with such a wonderful update, but I am sorry that all the wild flowers were removed from this version. They gave a wonderful character to the original NHAT, a look that was more Grimm than grim (fairy tale vs. gritty realism), and which looked wonderful as they swayed in the wind. That is a big loss. With such outstanding visual work through the mission pack as the updated caves in mission 1, the sewers and smugglers' cove in mission 2, and the little touches in mission 3, and the refined gameplay throughout, it is disappointing they of all things were cut.


Come the time of peril, did the ground gape, and did the dead rest unquiet 'gainst us. Our bands of iron and hammers of stone prevailed not, and some did doubt the Builder's plan. But the seals held strong, and the few did triumph, and the doubters were lain into the foundations of the new sanctum. -- Collected letters of the Smith-in-Exile, Civitas Approved

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The problem there is that every vertex in each flower needs to be translated to it's new position by the CPU for every move of that pendulum.

Arcturus did something similar with his grass demo so I guess it's not too bad but it depends on the number of polys in the source model. (and shadow casting is definitely out of the question).

Maybe a simpler flower model ? (hard to say how much simpler you can go there though).

 

GPU Skinning is on the engine roadmap so maybe someday this wont be as much of a concern...


Please visit TDM's IndieDB site and help promote the mod:

 

http://www.indiedb.com/mods/the-dark-mod

 

(Yeah, shameless promotion... but traffic is traffic folks...)

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Lovely campaign, even if unfinished. I have two questions about the 2nd mission, though. It's literally been years since its release, so I guess unspoilered is okay, and makes for better searchability in the future.

 

I - How do I get food for for my bum friend? The only frobbable food items I've found are a loaf of bread and an apple on a table in the tavern, but these don't go into your inventory. Am I supposed to hold one in front of me (as a 3D object) and take it all the way to Harry like that?

 

II - There's a warehouse with a LOT of crates on two levels, and a well-hidden locked crate inside. Where's the key to it?

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