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Couple Modeling Questions


Epifire

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That is looking super sweet!

 

Doom 3 automatically creates collision and shadows unless you specify noshadows and noclipmodel.

 

We tend to make our own low-poly meshes for these to improve performance rather than letting the engine build

them from the high-poly.

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That is looking super sweet!

 

Doom 3 automatically creates collision and shadows unless you specify noshadows and noclipmodel.

 

We tend to make our own low-poly meshes for these to improve performance rather than letting the engine build

them from the high-poly.

 

Ah thanks! I was supposing it might have been automatic. I was thinking on trying to get a manually created shadow mesh at least (so that I could get away with giving it self shadows in return). The normals look really odd if you have any lights parallel with the chair, since the light doesn't get cut out. For tagging the meshes though, do you just use their shader names like other meshes? I thought this was the case, because then you'd just call up the function you wanted to use in that instance. Only thing is I couldn't find a list of functions to be able to use for a model.

Modeler galore & co-authors literally everything

 

 

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Alrighty, hopefully the last question here but I didn't think it was worth starting a new thread over. And that is smoothing. Xcen edited my chair for the version you see there in the screenshot, but for some reason lwo exports break all the smoothing options Softimage generates. I tried another option for getting an ase into the game (through a really old Softimage version) but I was stuck trying to edit the file for correct paths with little to no luck. Trying to get this ottoman to render correctly in-game but as you can see all the edges (quads not the tris oddly) are all hard edges.

 

training_mission_2015-07-29_11.06.41_zps

 

 

Softimage has never been known for advanced smoothing because it actually doesn't really smooth like other applications. You have the option to mark hard edges or manually set what angle becomes hard or smooth in a local setting for the object. I've done every trick I know in the book for disabling any kind of auto-smoothing or hard edges (that might cause this on export) but to no avail. My only other alternative I can think of is to add smoothing through another modeling application. I feel like it would be a really cumbersome method to pick up another application just to export with, but that may be my only other alternative. Maybe there's a lightweight third party tool that can edit and save smoothing. That would be ideal but there's little else I can think of as to how I can fix this.

 

Also something weird is I can re-export that chair (overwriting the version with corrected smoothing) and it works fine. But if I export a basic sphere with the chair's same material on it, I get the hard edge problem. Or any other model I export for that matter, just has the same problem. I guess this is what I get for being the one guy to use the "odd man out-ware"

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Modeler galore & co-authors literally everything

 

 

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As long as I can actually load those .lwos in lightwave (I haven't been able to open some that people have exported recently) I can smooth them. It only requires two clicks.

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So can you export it without that hard edge or will Xcen/Spring have to tweak it.?

 

Also what modeling s/w are you using..?

 

Autodesk Softimage 2015. Formerly known as Softimage|XSI and before that Softimage 3D. It's a very old line of software I'm using, (with last notable dev company being Valve). I've been using it since '09 and am quite fond of it, even though it's getting discontinued by Autodesk. Those lousy money mongers. Anyway, yeah lwo doesn't preserve the smoothing options so either I try and get my ase exporter functioning correctly or I look for a workaround.

 

 

As long as I can actually load those .lwos in lightwave (I haven't been able to open some that people have exported recently) I can smooth them. It only requires two clicks.

 

That could probably work in the short term, I mean Xcen was able to import my chair and give it proper smoothing in Blender. While I do appreciate the option of having someone do it for me, I'd much rather be able to just do it myself so that no further work is required. I also want to be able to produce complete assets on my own setup so that I don't have to keep bugging people for assistance. Otherwise it looks like I'll just be looking for some really lightweight tool or modeling app that can simply output lwo files with smoothing. I'm okay with a small workaround, as long as the application doesn't take a day and a half to load. And honestly ase files don't seem to be any quicker since they require their paths manually edited per export. It's frustrating as I like my pipeline to be as condensed as possible, but I think a secondary export application will be my only option.

 

EDIT: Well I'm not sure what's going on with this now. I just picked up Blender (and maybe I just don't know wth I'm doing) but it all looks smoothed there and I even toggled it to make sure the settings ran just once. Saved and then exported an lwo to run in TDM. BUT IT STILL IS HARD EDGED! I dunno, maybe some strange thing carried over in the file from XSI, but it's getting to be absurdly annoying, given I even deleted the original file in my models folder to make sure it wasn't an overwrite failure. For the in-game tests I'm not sure if it makes a difference but I'm running the compile each time I test, so I think that would definitely find and update the mesh in the level with the new version. Maybe if I duplicated in Blender it would change? Hard to say but I seriously just installed to try this method out, so I may be missing something else too. Blender's import from OBJ did some weird material name changes too which I had to nail down. For any other Blender users though, is there a good method for stripping away any previous mesh data before I re-export the lwo?

Edited by Epifire

Modeler galore & co-authors literally everything

 

 

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That chair keeps getting better and better looking, it somehow reminds me assets from Dishonored quality wise. Being curious about how the collision and shadow meshes are working, I tried to load some of the models .ase files in blender but they only contain the main model. I suppose that collision and shadow ones are into the prefab files. If I'm right, is there a way to open these .pfb files?

Edit : I don't see why blender would keep data from previous meshes after the import unless you let it do that. Have you tried messing with the .obj import/export options in the lower left corner of the screen? I'm not sure that panel is visible by default.

Edited by Gast
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Smoothing can be a problem indeed, at least for me, when using modo and now with bender. Its odd you get to see your model already smoothed when you import it, because I think the default is that shading is flat, you have to turn smooth shading on on the tools panel on your left. Still, thats for viewer only. For it to apply to the mesh, you need to have it selected and go to the object data menu on your right (it has a triangle with 3 dots as an icon), check autosmooth and then set the angle.

 

That should work. No clue why your software isnt doing it, but if I had to guess, the problem should be in the exporting options.

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For the in-game tests I'm not sure if it makes a difference but I'm running the compile each time I test, so I think that would definitely find and update the mesh in the level with the new version.

You don't need to recompile if you change models, materials or textures. The entity that you placed in your map is just a link to a model.

 

// entity 1

{

"classname" "func_static"

"name" "func_static_1"

"model" "models/darkmod/furniture/leather_chair_001.lwo"

"origin" "-27.3595 9.94161 0.976092"

"rotation" "0.707107 0.707107 0 -0.707107 0.707107 0 0 0 1"

}

TDM looks for a "model" in folder "models/darkmod/furniture/" with the name "leather_chair_001.lwo". As long as there is a model with this name it doesn't matter what changes you made.

 

Being curious about how the collision and shadow meshes are working, I tried to load some of the models .ase files in blender but they only contain the main model.

You build two additional meshes and give them the materials "textures/common/shadow" or "textures/common/shadow2" for a shadow mesh or "tdm_collision_metal" for a collision mesh. There are more materials for collision in "tdm_textures_base01\materials\tdm_collision.mtr".

 

I suppose that collision and shadow ones are into the prefab files.

http://wiki.thedarkmod.com/index.php?title=Prefabs

 

If I'm right, is there a way to open these .pfb files?

DarkRadiant or a text editor.

 

BUT IT STILL IS HARD EDGED!

 

Here is how I did it:

 

1. I use Blender 2.75a with default settings. Nothing changed. Like a clean install. I started from your first uploaded .lwo model.

 

2. Start Blender.

3. In the top left click on "File" and go to "User_Preferences"

4. Go to "Add-ons" -> "Import-Export" -> and activate "Import-Export: Import LightWave Objects"

5. Download this exporter: http://www.blenderartists.org/forum/showthread.php?336749-The-LWO-import-export-project

6. In the "User-Preferences" -> "Add-ons" go to "Install from File...", install the exporter and make sure it is activated.

 

7. In the top right is a window named "Outliner" where you can see a "Camera", "Cube" and "Lamp" entity.

8. Right-click on the names and delete them.

9. Go to "File" -> "Import" -> "LightWave Object (.lwo)" and load your model.

10. In the top right "Outliner" window left-click on your model. Now you should see an orange outline on your model. If not press key 'a' to select your model.

11. Check that you are in "Object Mode". Near the bottom of your window to the right of the "Object" menu you can select a mode (Object, Edit, Sculpt, Vertex, Weight and Texture).

12. On the left side go to "Tools" -> "Edit" -> "Shading" and select "Smooth".

 

13. Now press key 'tab' or click "Object Mode" near the bottom of your window and change it to "Edit Mode". When changing to edit mode you can see every triangle/quad highlighted in orange. If not hit 'a'.

14. Press 'a' to deselect your model.

15. Near the bottom of your window check a box (a cube with an orange line) named "Edge select".

16. If you right-click on an edge you can select it. Press and hold 'shift' while you right-click and select some edges that you want to split.

17. With the edges selected press 'ctrl' + 'e' to open the "Edges" menu and select "Mark Sharp". Now you should see a cyan line (and some orange sparkling through). If you want to unmark an edge go to "Edges" -> "Clear Sharp".

18. Switch back to "Object Mode" with 'tab' and then press 'a' to deselect your model.

19. On the right side below the "Outliner" is the "Properties" window. Sometimes you need to rescale the window to make all entities visible. Just left-click on the border and drag.

20. Select the wrench icon to open the "Modifiers". Go to "Add Modifier" and select "Edge Split" in the second column.

21. Uncheck "Edge Angle" and make sure "Sharp Edges" is activated. Don't hit "Apply" yet.

22. Now the previously marked edges look sharp. But the modifier isn't applied yet. You only see what you will get when you apply the "Edge Split" modifier.

 

23. Press 'tab' to switch back into "Edit Mode" and select all edges ('shift' + right-click for selection and 'ctrl'+'e' -> "Mark Sharp" to mark for splitting)

 

24. When every edge is marked for splitting go back into object mode (press 'tab') and hit "Apply" in "Properties" -> "Modifiers" -> "Edge Split". Make sure only "Sharp Edges" is checked.

 

25. If your model isn't triangulated go to "Edit Mode" (hit 'tab'), select everything (hit 'a') and press 'ctrl'+'f' to go to the "Faces" menu and select "Triangulate Faces".

 

26. To change the name of the material go to "Properties" on the right side and go to "Materials".

27. Below the list on the top is a field where you can enter or edit the name. Change it to the name of your material in the ".mtr" and hit 'enter'. Now you should see the new name in the list on the top.

 

28. For export make sure you are in "Object Mode" (hit 'tab') and the model is selected (hit 'a'). There should be an orange outline now. This is important.

29. Go to "File" -> "Export" -> "Lightwave (.lwo)".

30. On the bottom left there is a "LwoExport" window.

31. Check "Smoothed". Don't actiavate "idTech compatible". And uncheck "Recalculate Normals". If there is something inverted ingame make sure to uncheck this one.

32. "LwoExport" in the top right.

Edited by Xcen
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That chair keeps getting better and better looking, it somehow reminds me assets from Dishonored quality wise. Being curious about how the collision and shadow meshes are working, I tried to load some of the models .ase files in blender but they only contain the main model. I suppose that collision and shadow ones are into the prefab files. If I'm right, is there a way to open these .pfb files?

 

Edit : I don't see why blender would keep data from previous meshes after the import unless you let it do that. Have you tried messing with the .obj import/export options in the lower left corner of the screen? I'm not sure that panel is visible by default.

 

Thanks! Even just hearing someone make that comparison is awesome. Since I basically painted the whole diffuse from a Wacom, this was the one time I could actually get away with a fully painted mesh (besides the baked maps from the highres). I actually had the Dishonored furniture in my head when I was working on it. I haven't had working custom collison/shadow meshes yet. I just picked up the latest version of Blender last night so I haven't seen these settings yet.

 

@ Xcen - Fantastic breakdown! I did find that same exporter last night but I didn't know about all the additional settings to check before exporting. According to what RPGista was saying I was just toggling smoothing for the viewport only. Do I'll have to put these methods to use tonight when I get off of work. I'll keep you posted on how that goes.

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Modeler galore & co-authors literally everything

 

 

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I thought you only used AO to get the details of the leather done, nice painting work then! If you plan to get more familiar with blender, make sure to check the amazing paint option they added recently, it's kind of fun :smile: .


Edited by Gast
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Just to clarify the shadow mesh a bit further (awesome tutorial there by xcen btw):

 

Your model would actually include 3 meshes on separate layers, the sofa chair we see in game, the shadow mesh and the collision mesh (if it is something that can be thrown around).

 

The mesh we get to see has all its textures and normals and what not. The shadow mesh (a much simpler version of the first, polygon wise, that is supposed to be inside the borders of the original) is textured with the "shadow" texture that is found in TDM (any uv layout will do). The same for the collision mesh (collision texture found in TDM), also its supposed to be basicly a box, very little faces.

 

You would then go into the texture's material file for your chair and set the diffuse layer as no_shadow (Im pretty sure its only the diffuse, but you can look into my other model, a stone bench, if you want to study the material file, its included in TDM). So now your chair is not casting shadows, only the invisible shadow mesh inside it is.

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Welp I'm politely happy and content to say it now works. I feel a little dumb to think all I'm gonna be using Blender for is exporting, but for now that's probably what I'm stuck with until/if I find out what's causing the problem with Softimage. If I were smart in any kind of way I'd probably try and define some custom buttons and settings in Blender to limit exactly how many clicks it takes to load in and export out.

 

Either way now that I finally am able to get models exported to the game correctly, I think I'm gonna start working on the final collision and shadow meshes to improve performance. I generally don't get this much help anywhere when I've had a problem, so I really can't thank you guys enough for the quick and well detailed responses. Really feelin the love. :wub:

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Modeler galore & co-authors literally everything

 

 

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That love does come with a binding contract though.. now you need to make us TWENTY more sets of furniture! :o:D

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