Fan Mission: Penny Dreadful 3 by Melan and Bikerdude (2016/07/10)

[Melan 1782]

Thanks, Lex!

 

I can see both points. PD2 was a less conventional mission, while this is a new iteration of techniques and ideas I have been doing since my first FM. I personally consider Erasing the Trail conceptually weaker than All the Way Up, and a flawed project in many ways - I stalled a third of the way through building it, and while it wrapped up decently I think, something is still "off" about the end result. Which is why I will not make new city missions for a while now, and focusing on other kinds of thieving. (Helping others is a different issue.) On the other hand, AtWU is not a very accommodating mission, while this one is fairly easy below expert (where the loot goal forces you to explore and be very attentive - it is kinda too strict). I can easily see how they can appeal to different people. And of course, PD4 will once again be another kind of mission.

 

I forgot about including the high-res map, but will do when the mission is revised (watching Fen's LP, the ghostly voices need a bit of a toning down ). Actually, my very first mission back in 2007 came with a printable player map to pore over while playing the mission - it's time to revive the tradition!

[V-Man339 162]

Sorry if this has been brought up but I figure it's worth mention.

Black sky as opposed to a proper one in this courtyard.

Edited September 15, 2016 by V-Man339

[Bikerdude 3736]

@Vman, are you sure your not clipping into something - thats normally whats happens when clip into something, you get a black sky.

[Melan 1782]

It is a confirmed bug.

[V-Man339 162]

It is a confirmed bug.

Yeah, no clipping involved here.

Edited September 15, 2016 by V-Man339

[Tarhiel 29]

Lex: Thanks! Both of the main objectives can be completed without killing your targets (directly or indirectly), or indeed, even setting foot inside their respective residences.

 

In Grunt's case, you are on one of the right tracks to complete the objective, but that's not one of the non-lethal solutions.

 

In the Almsmaster's case, doing it non-lethally requires some lateral thinking and a bit of careful cross-examination of what you have at your disposal. As far as I know, it hasn't been done yet, and I'd rather let someone from the community discover it on their own before spoiling it.

 

Fantastic mission, Melan!

 

There are several things I am not able to resolve by myself:

 

 

 

- tobacco mix at the table in tobacco shop - how can I use it? I tried burned it with slow match, to no avail.

 

- there is unfrobbable letter in Grunt´s office - a bug or a feature and where can I use it?

 

- how to "Kill" Almaster Quandt non-lethally? I was able to find out beggar´s note saying you should light up a fire (I guess it is the one right under his balcony, immediately after an entrance to his mansion, although that doesn´t make any sense, since he can´t see it - formerly I have thought he could see from his balcony to somewhere where it would be possible to light a fire, but there is just a stone wall right in front of it, so I was baffled as to what fire I should lit) and he will come to the balcony - no difference for me, since I grew impatient and blackjacked him, so there was no other option for me just to kill him.

 

- how to open the lock in gargoyle´s mouth?

 

 

 

Edited September 26, 2016 by Tarhiel

[Melan 1782]

Thanks, Tarhiel!

 

Hints and spoilers follow:

 

 

• You have to use something on the pile of tobacco...

 

How about some poisonous nocturnal lily dust?

 

You can find some nearby. Get into the small shop on Tar Street by frobbing the piece of paper under the door, then proceeding through a secret vent to an upstairs apartment.

 

 

 

• The document on the table is most likely an extra copy of The City Tribune, which you might already have in your inventory (TDM doesn't pick up identically named objects... and I forgot to make it stack).
• Doing the Almsmaster objective nonlethally is probably the trickiest thing in the mission, and you don't even have to enter his residence to accomplish it. However, the solution is fairly close, and needs a bit of creative reading...

 

Find Grunt's letter, resting on a table in the smuggler's house. While it refers to a different subject than Foxley, its text is sufficiently misleading to throw Archiband Flint off of your trail. Drop it into the coffin instead of the Almsmaster's body. This completes the objective.

 

• For the gargoyle's mouth, you have to look for its pair, high above...

 

Find the entrance to Vitus Bellingcourt's barricaded mansion through the rooftops, and look in the mouth of the gargoyle there.

 

 

 

 

[Tarhiel 29]

On an unrelated note:

 

I have just learned about Lady Rowena´s passing.

 

That in game tribute/secret, of course, let me wondering, whether this is just another in game paying respect to another gifted modder/developer, or whether Rowena really did passed away, because this one seemed different.

I just learned today that the latter was the real reason behind it.

 

Her Seven Sisters mission, without any exaggeration, is amongst the best missions I have played in my life, level-design and story wise.

 

May she rest in peace,

Edited September 28, 2016 by Tarhiel

[dartollen 6]

Melan, Bikerdude

 

I really, really enjoyed this mission. Thank you so for making it - I appreciate that you guys must have put hundreds of hours into this project, and it's one of the very best on TDM.

 

In terms of more specific feedback:

 

1. The design of the map is really varied and topologically interesting. Lots of vertical exploration, unexpected connections between different areas of the map and secret passages. This makes for a great play experience. However, you need to make sure players are able to enjoy as much of the map as possible. If you make it too hard to get into places, only a few players will get to enjoy your hard work.

By way of example, I blackjacked the first guard inside the tenement, and the tenement key he was carrying was not visible once he fell. Given that this is the only guard on the whole map who is carrying loot, I was also not expecting him to be carrying anything, so I didn't move his body around to check for the hidden key. This meant I missed a whole section of the map (the bit with the tobacconist, the Book of Enigmas, etc.) because, unless I'm mistaken, the only route into that area was through the locked tenement door. You probably should have at least two ways into any section of the map to avoid this. Apologies if there is another way and I managed to miss both!

 

 

2. It's really refreshing to play a game where the puzzles are genuinely challenging and really well designed. Most games these days take the view that any puzzle has to be capable of being solved by a toddler, which is a bit dull. That said, I think you may have gone a bit too far in the other direction in some cases. Judging by the number of other posters in this thread who couldn't solve various puzzles, you might need to include slightly more hints (or clearer hints) in your levels.

To give an example, the red room puzzle did have a clue, but it was very well hidden under the servant's bed, and didn't actually give the key piece of information, which is that one switch operates both grates. A better clue might have alluded to this. Another example is the Book of Enigmas. It's a fantastic idea to include something like that, but I think you need to make sure that players will definitely find it - otherwise the players who most need the clues won't actually get them. As it happens, it is hidden very well in an area of the map which I didn't even make it into as mentioned above. One more example is the jewel hidden in the tapestry in the barricaded mansion where the wizard is wandering around - I can't imagine many players found that without using the console loot command. Perhaps there could have been a readable where he mentioned that he'd managed to keep one family heirloom safe? The greatest joy in puzzles is managing to solve them yourself, rather than having to read the solutions online or having to use the console. Getting the difficulty level just right is therefore critical.

 

 

3. On a related point, does the difficulty of the level scale with the difficulty setting? I remember in PD2 that the armoury key only appeared on low difficulty levels. Perhaps one way of addressing the difficulty of the puzzles would be to include more keys or more (or different) readables on lower difficulty levels. Just a thought. I've only played through on expert, though, so apologies if you've already done this!

 

4. There are almost no bugs, which is a great achievement.

I only found one bug, which was that I couldn't frob the key to the smithy through the window. I assume I was supposed to be able to do this? Or perhaps the key in the smithy and the key in the river are the wrong way around? It might make more sense for the key in the river to open the nearby smithy, and then the key to the smith's shop/house could be in the smithy.

 

 

Anyway, thanks again for making such an awesome series of maps. I'm really looking forward to the next one!

[Deadlove 259]

Haven't finished, but I LOVE the use of solid/movable objects set on ground/places that cause player to move very slowly and examine everything else they might step on something that can alert guards. Brilliant!

[Deadlove 259]

Melan, when you make revision in ghostly grail voices I also could attempt to alter bar noise from pub. If you'd like to include it. The pub now sound like player is inside while passing by not sound muffled by buffer (the walls between pub and player). Just something if the few that stood out to me that broke a wonderfully immersive work. Still not finished.

[montag 34]

Great mission, Melan! This might be my favorite of all the missions you have produced. I knew before playing that this would be another winner, you never fail to make enjoyable missions. Between you and Bikerdude, how could it go wrong? Real-life complications caused several interruptions while playing, but I managed to finish in just under 3 months with over 10 hours of game play! (66 saves, only 1970 loot, and a stealth score of 14, I promise to do better in my replay) Can't wait for things to settle down so I can give this the time it deserves. Will not give up till I have explored everywhere/everything that you have created here! I try to play every fan mission in the order they are released, so I have two to catch up on. That should provide enough time to re-approach with a fresh head. There is no way to explain just how much this mission was helpful to me to keep what little sanity I have left, just wish I could have come at it with no distractions, to give it the justice it deserves. If you had a poll going, score would be - Near Perfect, Near Perfect, Near Perfect! I will reserve a detailed review for after I have had an opportunity to really play it. (and learn how to use spoilers ) Thanks for all your work, really a superlative effort!

[Deadlove 259]

Has anyone else noticed that you can put wooden mugs (or other sizable sturdy objects) on top of torches and they will block the flame from alerting the light gem?

[Melan 1782]

Thanks for all the feedback, folks! I have had a hellish few weeks so I couldn't be around much, but I appreciate your intelligent comments.

[Cambridge Spy 113]

Here's a playthrough video of PD3:

 

[video=youtube]

 

This also happens to be the first video of TDM 2.04. I also found a couple of bugs during recording, keep an eye out for annotations.

[Bikerdude 3736]

1. I really, really enjoyed this mission. Thank you so for making it - I appreciate that you guys must have put hundreds of hours into this project, and it's one of the very best on TDM.

You probably should have at least two ways into any section of the map to avoid this. Apologies if there is another way and I managed to miss both!

That said, I think you may have gone a bit too far in the other direction in some cases.

On a related point, does the difficulty of the level scale with the difficulty setting?

I couldn't frob the key to the smithy through the window. I assume I was supposed to be able to do this?

1. Melan is the artist here, I was merely the engineer

2. There is - The the 'old womens sewing shop' via the fireplace and a 'small alley of the small square' round the back of the tenements.

From Melans PoV, t was a balance btween what he want to put in his map and me pointing out that some players wont find some of places/puzzle. What we ended up agreeing on was that this map was designed so that both casual and hardcore please would find this rewarding.

Nope fraid not in this mission. The levels of difficulty are more like real life in tat ts ard as the player wants it to be.

Hmm, if you mean the lantern maker in the allery up the way from small church - you should be able to frob that key, have you tried leaning in or to the side to get the key to frob-hilight?

[goodtaffer 0]

Is there a way to play this mission without shitloads of bugs, some dissapearing models and crashs every 3-5 minutes ? im going crazy this should be divided into parts this is so heavy graphic for one mission it is not working.

[Anderson 261]

Is there a way to play this mission without shitloads of bugs, some dissapearing models and crashs every 3-5 minutes ? im going crazy this should be divided into parts this is so heavy graphic for one mission it is not working.

What are your system specifications?

You'll go crazy each time until you provide data to work with I'm afraid..

[Bikerdude 3736]

Is there a way to play this mission without shitloads of bugs, some dissapearing models and crashs every 3-5 minutes ?

What are your system specifications?

yup, fraid we can't help when the only info given is all shouty.

[goodtaffer 0]

Sorry,

 

acer 4830tg laptop with :

i5-2410m

nvidia 540m

8gb ram

256gb samsung evo ssd

 

windows 8.1 enterprise 64 bit

 

 

crash is happening on all missions, but it is way more often on this one.

can this crash problem be solved ? when i quicksave its crashing more on this mission. sorry for my english .

i updated everythnik its not working.

 

can it help to jump on windows 7 ?

 

and my windows gamma is fucked up as allways , it doesnt matter what i do, only i can do is restart system.

the problem on here :

http://forums.thedarkmod.com/topic/17527-screen-display-very-light-after-crash/

 

Some bed curtains, some other models i forgot and sky is dissapearing , sometimes everything is dissapearing and there is only darkness and dark sky.

thanks.

Edited October 16, 2016 by goodtaffer

[nbohr1more 1881]

This is TDM 2.04 correct?

 

What driver version is installed for your 540m GPU?

[Bikerdude 3736]

acer 4830tg laptop with :

• i5-2410m
• nvidia 540m
• 8gb ram
• 256gb samsung evo ssd

windows 8.1 enterprise 64 bit, can it help to jump on windows 7 ?

The specs are all just about 'ok', if you had been running win10 I would immediately pointed the finger at that. But as it is it looks like you might have a hardware or driver issue. But back to your system -

• reasonable high mid-teir mobile CPU (2.3Ghz(2.9 turbo), 3m cache, dual core)
• This is now considered a low end mobile GPu (96 core), but as its nVidia it should handle TDM on low-medium settings. The issue I will guess your having is a lack of Vram, I am guessing it only has 512-1024Mb..? if so you need to tweak you darkmod.cfg file to tweak-down TDM for only have 512-1024Mb of vram to play with. See the following wiki entry - http://wiki.thedarkmod.com/index.php?title=FAQ There are a number of usefuall section in there, but the first you should look at is the "The game is very slow!" section.
• You have more than enough ram and hard drive space.

[goodtaffer 0]

 

The specs are all just about 'ok', if you had been running win10 I would immediately pointed the finger at that. But as it is it looks like you might have a hardware or driver issue. But back to your system -

• reasonable high mid-teir mobile CPU (2.3Ghz(2.9 turbo), 3m cache, dual core)
• This is now considered a low end mobile GPu (96 core), but as its nVidia it should handle TDM on low-medium settings. The issue I will guess your having is a lack of Vram, I am guessing it only has 512-1024Mb..? if so you need to tweak you darkmod.cfg file to tweak-down TDM for only have 512-1024Mb of vram to play with. See the following wiki entry - http://wiki.thedarkmod.com/index.php?title=FAQ There are a number of usefuall section in there, but the first you should look at is the "The game is very slow!" section.
• You have more than enough ram and hard drive space.

 

Hmm but i tried updating my drivers 10 times before past years, you know when you type problem in google the forum topic appears i tried all things there before. i will try updating nvidia driver again and that ram fix.

 

my 540m is 1024mb driver is 327.02

 

 

and i suspect from one thing too but this is not effecting any other game or after effect cuda or anythinhg.

 

in nvidia system props there is some ram but i dont know how to use this 4gb video ram.

 

Edited October 17, 2016 by goodtaffer

[goodtaffer 0]

Plus i dont know this can affect this but i had a hardware problem in past my acer 4830tg has a problem with hdmi output on windows 7-8 when i try dos command :

devcon.exe restart PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_0116&SUBSYS_054F1025&REV_09\3&11583659&0&10

it works by this bat file but its not working normally and it took 1 year to realize this is a hardware damage problem not driver or software. So there can be something in my video bios, onboard intel hd3000 or somewhere something going wrong.

here is the topic i writed there with hdmiproblem nick :

http://www.sevenforums.com/graphic-cards/267901-hdmi-vid-signal-only-works-safe-mode-not-windows-7-a-3.html

 

shit is a hardware or bios damage im sure. But there is no problem on any game, only on TDM.

 

can this effect tdm ?

[nbohr1more 1881]

If you aren't really using the Nvidia GPU because of a hardware issue, other games may work better with your Intel GPU than

TDM.

 

Please:

 

1) Launch TDM

2) Open the console (ctrl-alt-tilde) and type "condump goodtaffer.txt"

3) Collect the goodtaffer.txt and Darkmod.cfg files and zip them into one archive package

4) Rename the package.zip with a txt extension: eg. goodtaffer.zip.txt

5) Create a reply post here and use the "More Reply Options" then attach the file.