Jump to content
The Dark Mod Forums
Sign in to follow this  
Sotha

US presidential election

Recommended Posts

You're correct and Donald plays nice with Putin but.....is this equilibrium stable?

I want to remind that Trump is also friends with Saakashvili - probably the most anti-soviet, anti-russian mafia and anti-Kremlin politician in the post-soviet space.

 

 

So it definately seems the next 3 months until he officially acceds into office will take some meditation and forethought to figure out the next step.

Edited by Anderson

"I really perceive that vanity about which most men merely prate — the vanity of the human or temporal life. I live continually in a reverie of the future. I have no faith in human perfectibility. I think that human exertion will have no appreciable effect upon humanity. Man is now only more active — not more happy — nor more wise, than he was 6000 years ago. The result will never vary — and to suppose that it will, is to suppose that the foregone man has lived in vain — that the foregone time is but the rudiment of the future — that the myriads who have perished have not been upon equal footing with ourselves — nor are we with our posterity. I cannot agree to lose sight of man the individual, in man the mass."...

- 2 July 1844 letter to James Russell Lowell from Edgar Allan Poe.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But he's also pro-Ukraine-in-UE.....https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikheil_Saakashvili

 

Saakashvili energetically supported Ukraine's Euromaidan movement and the 2014 Ukrainian revolution.[10] On 30 May 2015 Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko appointed Saakashvili Governor of Odessa Oblast (region).[11][12][13] He was also granted Ukrainian citizenship.[11]

Edited by lowenz

Task is not so much to see what no one has yet seen but to think what nobody has yet thought about that which everybody see. - E.S.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But he's also pro-Ukraine-in-UE.....https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikheil_Saakashvili

 

Saakashvili energetically supported Ukraine's Euromaidan movement and the 2014 Ukrainian revolution.[10] On 30 May 2015 Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko appointed Saakashvili Governor of Odessa Oblast (region).[11][12][13] He was also granted Ukrainian citizenship.[11]

Yeah and now he quit and wants to create his own movement in Ukraine. 1. To go to the Supreme Rada (Parliament) and 2. President post.

He creates his own party now. Best thing to have happened since Ukraine's independence.


"I really perceive that vanity about which most men merely prate — the vanity of the human or temporal life. I live continually in a reverie of the future. I have no faith in human perfectibility. I think that human exertion will have no appreciable effect upon humanity. Man is now only more active — not more happy — nor more wise, than he was 6000 years ago. The result will never vary — and to suppose that it will, is to suppose that the foregone man has lived in vain — that the foregone time is but the rudiment of the future — that the myriads who have perished have not been upon equal footing with ourselves — nor are we with our posterity. I cannot agree to lose sight of man the individual, in man the mass."...

- 2 July 1844 letter to James Russell Lowell from Edgar Allan Poe.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There was an article today that Trump's foreign policy ideas are so thoughtless and incoherent people don't even know what to expect. Will he start a war? Will he undermine NATO and the Pacific Alliance?

 

The only thing we know is he wants to drop free trade and raise tariffs so we have $20 pineapples and beer. What a coup.


What do you see when you turn out the light? I can't tell you but I know that it's mine.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@esme,

Thanks for the effort you put in the long explanation. I guess I mostly agree. Fear comes from uncertainty and Trump is the embodiment of unpredictability. Well, at least for now...

 

That said, fortunately, the US is not a dictatorship, so the officials and bureucratic machinery can still probably limit worst of the worst.

 

Remember, too much worrying, over a long period of time, may be detrimental for your health and general well being. Surely Trumps US won't be Nazi Germany. I hope...

 

A good rule of a thumb would be probably that when you start seeing any news about political purges, it is time to pack your stuff and move somewhere else. It always has to start with the purges...

  • Like 1

Clipper

-The mapper's best friend.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is the problem, we're going to wait and see if Trump can be controlled or moderated, if he's going to see reason, we're going to give him the benefit of doubt.

 

I can tell you right here and now, that's a mistake.

 

Just looking at the people he's choosing for his cabinet will tell you that's a mistake.

 

He's in charge and he knows it, the Republicans have the presidency, the senate and unless Obama does something drastic very soon they will also have the Supreme Court. Trump will do what he wants, when he wants as often as he wants, no one will stop him and he will roll over any one or any group who tries to get in his way, he is not a nice person, he is not doing this for the good of America, he's doing this for his own ego. America will suffer because of this, and that's a problem because when America sneezes the world catches a cold.

 

He'll probably spend his first year dismantling every achievement of the Obama administration starting with the affordable care act, then he'll start satisfying his grudges & go after everyone who ever slighted him most likely starting with Clinton, which redneck americans will absolutely love, it will be prime time tv, then he'll start looking at acquisitions, "the middle east is full of bad people, really bad, the worst, you know, they could give us their resources but no, they're awful, lets do something about that" and redneck america will cheer as the troops are deployed.

 

As for voting someone else in in 2020, assuming we get to 2020, by then there will be so many disenfranchised voters, mainly among those who don't have white skins that he'll get another term by a landslide.

 

So if people don't want this, there aren't many options left and waiting to see what happens & trying to deal with it after the fact is not going to work.

Edited by esme

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm constantly trying to understand why people think Trump is going to be a good president? Without success but I will keep trying. Can people who voted for him say the same thing for those of us who think he is nuts?

 

The thing that annoys me the most is that in 4 or 8 years all the people who voted for Trump are going to hate him. They're going to be blaming him for all the problems we will have. Of course, by then they will have conveniently forgotten that they voted for him. Just like they got bamboozled by GWB(who was clearly an idiot). And then they're going to be looking for a reasonable person(someone like Obama or Bernie or even Hillary) to lead the country again.

 

People have a very short memory for their mistakes. And that's a prediction I will stick by. Check this post in 4 years ;)

Edited by Stepan1010

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm constantly trying to understand why people think Trump is going to be a good president? Without success but I will keep trying. Can people who voted for him say the same thing for those of us who think he is nuts?

 

The thing that annoys me the most is that in 4 or 8 years all the people who voted for Trump are going to hate him. They're going to be blaming him for all the problems we will have. Of course, by then they will have conveniently forgotten that they voted for him. Just like they got bamboozled by GWB(who was clearly an idiot). And then they're going to be looking for a reasonable person(someone like Obama or Bernie) to lead the country again.

 

People have a very short memory for their mistakes. And that's a prediction I will stick by. Check this post in 4 years ;)

Very few people actually fully support or prefer Trump compared to other potential candidates, but for many he becomes an answer of preference over Hilary.

 

You need to remember, the republican party actively fought against using him as their candidate the whole time, and many people agree with this sentiment, to say the least.

 

For the record, while I'm not informed enough to make any real discussion out of it, and disclaim any reasonable amount of ability to answer question on the matter, I was personally hoping for Ted Cruz vs Bernie Sanders, as were many others.

I feel like if that had happened, we'd see a real choice for America to make rather than two of the least likable candidates possible.


I like to record difficult stealth games, and right now you wonderful people are the only ones delivering on that front.

Click here for the crappy channel where that happens.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There was an article today that Trump's foreign policy ideas are so thoughtless and incoherent people don't even know what to expect. Will he start a war? Will he undermine NATO and the Pacific Alliance?

 

The only thing we know is he wants to drop free trade and raise tariffs so we have $20 pineapples and beer. What a coup.

Well, he's maybe only a dumb vote-collector front-end for his son-in-law: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jared_Kushner

Edited by lowenz

Task is not so much to see what no one has yet seen but to think what nobody has yet thought about that which everybody see. - E.S.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Surely Trumps US won't be Nazi Germany. I hope...

It's obvious, Nazi Germany was an answer to the WWI defeat, a defeat in a never-seen-before war (due to technological progress) with never-seen-before consequences (long run empires wiped out).


Task is not so much to see what no one has yet seen but to think what nobody has yet thought about that which everybody see. - E.S.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Very few people actually fully support or prefer Trump compared to other potential candidates, but for many he becomes an answer of preference over Hilary.

 

You need to remember, the republican party actively fought against using him as their candidate the whole time, and many people agree with this sentiment, to say the least.

They are going to be begging for someone as relatively sane as hillary(compared to Trump) in 4 or 8 years. She may have been part of the system but at least she could pass a 5th grade history exam. The republican party chose him as their candidate - and they are now responsible for him.

 

For the record, while I'm not informed enough to make any real discussion out of it, and disclaim any reasonable amount of ability to answer question on the matter, I was personally hoping for Ted Cruz vs Bernie Sanders, as were many others.

I feel like if that had happened, we'd see a real choice for America to make rather than two of the least likable candidates possible.

Let me inform you a little bit about Cruz(who is just below Trump on the nut-o-meter).

 

Cruz opposes both same-sex marriage and civil unions.

 

Cruz rejects the scientific consensus on climate change. He has stated: "They call anyone who questions the science who even points to the satellite data – they call you a, quote, 'denier.' Denier is not the language of science. Denier is the language of religion. It is heretic. You are a blasphemer. It's treated as a theology. But it's about power and money. At the end of the day, it's not complicated. This is liberal politicians who want government power."

 

Cruz has said this about non-religious people:

"I kind of thought it was the job of a chaplain to be insensitive to atheists.”

 

Also:

"Ted Cruz Was One of Eight Senators to Vote Against the Violence Against Women Act"

 

Or just watch this:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, that video shows Ted being a "Pharisee".

 

Matthew 6:5

 

And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites.

For they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners,

that they may be seen by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward.

For folks raised to expect the "end times" seeing a Christian Pharisee in such a prominent

place is definitely going to raise alarm bells.

 

If the DNC weren't foolishly following a pied-piper strategy of promoting Trump until the general,

they probably would've made mention of this.


Please visit TDM's IndieDB site and help promote the mod:

 

http://www.indiedb.com/mods/the-dark-mod

 

(Yeah, shameless promotion... but traffic is traffic folks...)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So, the aftermath? :D


Task is not so much to see what no one has yet seen but to think what nobody has yet thought about that which everybody see. - E.S.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Or just watch this:

How an honest man can't realize this sort of dream is a propaganda machine induced *BAD* hallucination? (bad 'cause it generates a false sense of reality, a childish reality!)

Edited by lowenz

Task is not so much to see what no one has yet seen but to think what nobody has yet thought about that which everybody see. - E.S.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"I really perceive that vanity about which most men merely prate — the vanity of the human or temporal life. I live continually in a reverie of the future. I have no faith in human perfectibility. I think that human exertion will have no appreciable effect upon humanity. Man is now only more active — not more happy — nor more wise, than he was 6000 years ago. The result will never vary — and to suppose that it will, is to suppose that the foregone man has lived in vain — that the foregone time is but the rudiment of the future — that the myriads who have perished have not been upon equal footing with ourselves — nor are we with our posterity. I cannot agree to lose sight of man the individual, in man the mass."...

- 2 July 1844 letter to James Russell Lowell from Edgar Allan Poe.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

China shouldn't dictate who our President can talk to. Trump did something right for once.

 

Trump’s call with Taiwan’s leader looks like a calculated move, some experts say

 

Several leading members of his transition team are considered hawkish on China and friendly toward Taiwan, including chief of staff Reince Priebus.
Indeed, advisers explicitly warned last month that relations with China were in for a shake-up.
In an article for Foreign Policy titled “Donald Trump’s Peace Through Strength Vision for the Asia-Pacific,” Peter Navarro and Alexander Gray called Taiwan a “beacon of democracy in Asia” and complained that its treatment by the Obama administration was “egregious.”
The article, flagged to China experts as a significant policy blueprint, described Taiwan as “the most militarily vulnerable U.S. partner anywhere in the world” and called for a comprehensive arms deal to help it defend itself against China.
Friday’s phone call does not necessarily mean that will happen, but it does look like the first sign of a recalibration by a future Trump administration, experts say.
It was planned weeks ahead by staffers and Taiwan specialists on both sides, tweeted Julia Famularo, a research affiliate at the Project 2049 Institute, an Arlington-based think tank, adding that she had spoken to someone with direct knowledge.
The goal was to address and amend counterproductive “protocols” that prohibit direct contact between the U.S. president and Taiwan’s leader, she wrote.
“Of course both sides agreed ahead of time before making contact,” Alex Huang, a spokesman for Tsai, told the news agency Reuters.
The call looks like an attempt to test the waters of a new approach before Trump becomes president, experts said: After the inauguration, a similar move would have had more serious diplomatic ramifications.
“This was a planned action by the incoming president-elect and was neither ad hoc or done without deliberation,” said Christopher Balding, an associate professor at the HSBC Business School in Shenzhen.
“This is clearly part of some strategy by the incoming Trump administration about how they plan to treat China and Taiwan,” he added, calling it a “bold and potentially risky move” that clearly shifts policy priorities.

 

 

Trump's foreign policy strategy looks good so far. Instead of butting heads with both Russia and China like we have done in recent years, a possible rapprochement with Russia could be in the works. Russia is a shadow of a superpower compared to China. Russia's interests are mostly contained within its "sphere of influence", whereas China is rapidly spreading its influence to Africa and South America.
Combine this with Trump's promises of non-intervention (although there are contradictory statements, such as those pertaining to ISIS), and we could have the most successful foreign policy since the Cold War. Bigly successful.
Edited by jaxa

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

China shouldn't dictate who our President can talk to. Trump did something right for once.

 

Trump’s call with Taiwan’s leader looks like a calculated move, some experts say

 

 

Trump's foreign policy strategy looks good so far. Instead of butting heads with both Russia and China like we have done in recent years, a possible rapprochement with Russia could be in the works. Russia is a shadow of a superpower compared to China. Russia's interests are mostly contained within its "sphere of influence", whereas China is rapidly spreading its influence to Africa and South America.
Combine this with Trump's promises of non-intervention (although there are contradictory statements, such as those pertaining to ISIS), and we could have the most successful foreign policy since the Cold War. Bigly successful.

 

But, the world needs a Reagan in Europe against Russia. The costs are minimal. In fact one of the most righteous things Trump said is the need to increase defense spendings among NATO members and for potential NATO membership candidates in the future. Not enforcing that was a mistake of Obama.

 

Russia is irreconcilable. A KGB agent in power won't be step back. He will only be brought down by force by the oligarchs who put him there in the first place when they understand the dead end to which he's brought them to. Peace is an illusion that sells well by Megadeath concerning Russia. They have to expand territorially or be put back to their misery the hard way. There are no good solutions any more. It went too far.


"I really perceive that vanity about which most men merely prate — the vanity of the human or temporal life. I live continually in a reverie of the future. I have no faith in human perfectibility. I think that human exertion will have no appreciable effect upon humanity. Man is now only more active — not more happy — nor more wise, than he was 6000 years ago. The result will never vary — and to suppose that it will, is to suppose that the foregone man has lived in vain — that the foregone time is but the rudiment of the future — that the myriads who have perished have not been upon equal footing with ourselves — nor are we with our posterity. I cannot agree to lose sight of man the individual, in man the mass."...

- 2 July 1844 letter to James Russell Lowell from Edgar Allan Poe.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No, Russia is a has-been superpower that is going nowhere. It will be even less of a concern once Putin is out of the picture.

 

Russia is a distraction from China.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No, Russia is a has-been superpower that is going nowhere. It will be even less of a concern once Putin is out of the picture.

 

Russia is a distraction from China.

Okay, good luck getting Putin out of there because he has a great KGB system of blackmail deceit and manipulation to stay there. They have nuclear weapons, interests in Syria and a good agenda of combining things, using weaknesses of developing democracies and of developed democracies and so on.

Yes, it is not Putin's style to go head on like with Crimea and Donbass but a person that has the personality inferiority complex as him, is a dangerous factor.

 

In general, Russia was and always will be one of the strongest stabilising or destabilising factors for the world - depending on the leader. And it's horribly affecting the neighbours.

 

Your comment on China is well founded because in spite of all this Russia has been making serious concessions in front of China. Therefore there is hope the Trump administration will bring balance here.

 

I adore how this scene from Tarkovsky's Mirror is still close to the modern Ruso-Chinese relationships:

 

 

 

I.E. the Sino-Soviet conflict of the 60's

https://youtu.be/9Yn9q25NWAw?t=1h4m42s

 

Edited by Anderson
  • Like 1

"I really perceive that vanity about which most men merely prate — the vanity of the human or temporal life. I live continually in a reverie of the future. I have no faith in human perfectibility. I think that human exertion will have no appreciable effect upon humanity. Man is now only more active — not more happy — nor more wise, than he was 6000 years ago. The result will never vary — and to suppose that it will, is to suppose that the foregone man has lived in vain — that the foregone time is but the rudiment of the future — that the myriads who have perished have not been upon equal footing with ourselves — nor are we with our posterity. I cannot agree to lose sight of man the individual, in man the mass."...

- 2 July 1844 letter to James Russell Lowell from Edgar Allan Poe.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So, this may or may not be related to the discussion but I figure I'd say something, enlightened, retarded or otherwise.

 

I think after seeing just how divisive this entire election and post election period has been I'm just going to avoid the topic of politics with you guys specifically because I like all of you too much and don't want to lose any of you, especially since most of you seem actually quite reasonable.

Not risking these bridges, not when it would be something I have such limited control over regardless.

Hit me up on Twitter or in private, but I'm not making this a public forum issue in light of the fact that you're all cool people.

  • Like 2

I like to record difficult stealth games, and right now you wonderful people are the only ones delivering on that front.

Click here for the crappy channel where that happens.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My personality tends towards the wonk side, which means politics is about statistics and policy, and emotion isn't a relevant factor for me. I recognize it's emotional for other people, but not really for me.

 

Anyway, the Taiwan call I thought was blunderheaded, first because of the perception that he took it more to promote his plan to build hotels there than promoting US interests, but more deeply because it goes against the ethos that you pick your battles that are worth fighting. The status of Taiwan is China's most sensitive issue, the one thing it's willing to actually go to war over, and the thing it look 40 years of tough diplomacy to reach the current status quo, and the status quo is actually peaceful relations since the '70s. There's no looming crisis. But in the long run I think China is pragmatic enough to realize that it was a bluff and nothing will come of it.

 

It's China's encroachment in the S. China Sea that's the bigger threat worth fighting, and over the longer term its occupation of Tibet, Uyger rights, and human rights of its people generally. Things like that, where there is an actual crisis happening. Start with the important battles first. Well that'd be my foreign policy if it were me.


What do you see when you turn out the light? I can't tell you but I know that it's mine.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We've had some pretty heated debates here but I think folks have mostly remained civil.

 

For my own part, I know that I have a tendency towards conspiracy theories so I'm always in a position of defense.

 

I think the larger picture is that this is mostly a group of left-leaning folks in-fighting.

 

I seriously doubt anyone here is:

 

1) A climate change denier

2) A Christian theocracy booster

3) A trickle-down economics booster

4) Anti LGBT

 

and there are probably vanishingly low numbers of opponents of "Pro-Choice"

or anything else that is in the stereotypical far-right polarity.

 

That probably applies to most online spaces with political bickering about "The Donald".

 

I'd suggest that even most of Donald's current supporters know he's not an ideal choice so you

generally wont get too much argument about "bad things said about him" other than the hysterical

stuff like the media "freaking out about his private steak dinner" (etc).

 

Nope.

 

Most of the really heated stuff will be "Hillary REALLY sucks" vs "Hillary only sucks a little."

and "Outsourcing and Globalism" vs "Nationalism". Which aren't really Right vs Left debates per se.


Please visit TDM's IndieDB site and help promote the mod:

 

http://www.indiedb.com/mods/the-dark-mod

 

(Yeah, shameless promotion... but traffic is traffic folks...)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...