New Mapper Workshop

[Springheel]

I'm kind of tossing this out there to see whether there is any interest.

 

I've been trying, through the new module sets and videos I've been making, to make mapping for TDM easier for both veterans and newcomers. But it still can still seem like a daunting task for people who have never mapped before. So I had a bit of an idea. What would people think about a beginner mapper's workshop? I'm imagining something like a guided art lesson. New mappers would sign up, and then each week (or two) I would post some kind of small step by step tutorial for how to build a small mission. Everyone involved would follow along (either building their own idea or following a template I can provide). At each step, everyone could share their ideas, their questions, and their progress with others in the group, and I would be available to offer suggestions or look at any problems people run in to. We'd do one step per week until the missions were completed.

 

I know that when it comes to other artistic pursuits, knowing that other people are learning along with you can really help. It can also help motivate you when you know other people are eager to see your progress that week.

 

I'd also be willing to throw in little treat for those who stick it out until the end and complete their mission.

 

Is there any interest in something like this? Any members out there who have wanted to try their hand at mapping and were just waiting for an excuse?

[Obsttorte]

This sounds like an interesting idea, especially for new mappers.

[RPGista]

This is an amazingly beautiful idea, to have a TDM developer tutoring new mappers, who can learn and help each other as they go, all the while having that focused roadmap that you can only get from someone experienced in the subject. Ive only had great experiences from this model of learning and interaction, so Im in total favour of this. I love the idea of a plataform where you can collaborate, talk to each other and get personal feedback as you go. Its an incredible opportunity for anyone looking to start mapping or looking to learn with others.

 

Plus, all the material that will be recorded or have to be created for this will certainly become quite a useful starter kit for anyone coming into the community after the workshop.

[RPGista]

Be sure to let me (us) know if you would require any help to set this up, I know everyone is busy but its cool to be able to help with things like these, even if you can only afford a small contribution.

Edited May 17, 2017 by RPGista

[demagogue]

Is this meant to be like a group discussion on a thread, or more like a group Skype meeting?

 

I guess for logistical reasons it probably has to be the first. But a group mapping day over Skype sounds really motivating because everybody can talk with each other as they're mapping almost like a classroom setting. I guess you could ask what the potential participants prefer.

[Epifire]

I'm very new to the methods id4 uses for scripting as well as general implementation of gameplay mechanics. I assume you'd be covering some of that too right?

[peter_spy]

That's a very good idea. I think building and level design is a topic so broad, everyone will have an opinion about it. But, specific technical areas like scripting, writing materials, defs, making and importing animated objects - a form of consultations or guided/step-by-step workflow would help immensely.

 

The formula can be varied, if gathering all the participants at once is too difficult. You can have something like a Q&A session, e.g.:

 

Or, maybe something like assignments + comments?

 

I can offer my help in modeling (.ase) and texturing workflow and prototyping, as I know a thing or two about it (and frankly, that knowledge applies for other engines too). I'm not that good with materials yet, but I'm getting there. I was also thinking about making a modeling thread where anyone could ask about techniques and tricks to get the job done and exchange experiences, but I'm not sure how many people actually make custom models for their missions.

Edited May 17, 2017 by Judith

[Springheel]

I'm very new to the methods id4 uses for scripting as well as general implementation of gameplay mechanics. I assume you'd be covering some of that too right?

 

 

My plan would be to keep things very basic--the beginning skillset needed to create a simple mission like The Bakery or A Matter of Hours, so that it can be completed in a reasonable amount of time. But the first step is to see whether there is any interest, and then I can work out specifics according to what the participants would prefer.

[Delahunt]

I'd be all for this and would be happy to sign up. I go to a writers' workshop each week and know how useful the format can be.

 

I'll keep an eye on the thread!

[Springheel]

That's great! I think we'd probably want a minimum of 3 to get the best results. Anyone else want to take the plunge?

[teh_saccade]

This is a great idea.

 

 

I see demagogue has already suggested skype.

 

It is unfortunate that DR does not support the steam overlay, however:

Steam broadcast allows desktop streaming: Steam > Settings > Broadcast > Record video from all applications on this machine. Set it to > Anyone can watch broadcasts. Set up as required. Add TDM as non-steam game, run in windowed mode and with the sound turned off (if recording desktop sound). Make sure you are online on Steam. Open Steam overlay. Watch your own broadcast and copy the URL of the broadcast.

There is about a 10s delay only - watching your own broadcast results in hall of mirrors and audio feedback.

This would allow centralisation of the classes through a Steam group - event notifications and pop-ups for reminders, no need to "be friends" and also allow non-steam users to simply paste the broadcast URL into a browser window to watch and live-chat, either through text or voice.

The only downside to steam broadcast is that the text-chat can be difficult to see sometimes (tiny text in corner). It is easy to miss unless you are watching your own broadcast and keep an eye on the chatbox like those guys who stream games and are always looking to another screen 30s after someone writes a comment... Steam is very fast. This is the only downside - sometimes people must type twice quickly for me to notice they are trying to talk to me, as there is no beep or flash as with regular chat.

If using steam broadcasting URL (with sound disabled) with a discord / steam group chat for text and voice (priority speaker for admin, text chat for members) - that might be a good way to allow access to everyone without having to deal with skype issues and messing with screensharing and connection issues.

It would be possible to have a browser window open that allowed to watch, listen, chat, while also leave space on desktop to work in DR (without need for 2nd screen). Something like discord as back-up for non-steam members who cannot join the steam group chat because they don't want to sign up for steam (no d/l required only account creation and interact through web-browser).

I believe this to be the most effective solution for remote demo to an unlimited audience, so long as they know where to find it and at what time. Which is where the steam group might come in handy...

 

 

 

 

I would take part, because I like to learn things and a black-belt is nothing more than a white-belt that has been worn so often it has turned black, but I am training with automatic weapons in Texas from 19th til 27th of this month and then will be doing a solo trek that will take several weeks off the grid sometime in the next few months - if you do this in between those times, you can count on me to take part.

(and breathe heavily and eat chips into the microphone if I am allowed, there are 2 people watching me type this... weirdos. I think I am one)

[RPGista]

Maybe we could be a bit more ambitious, since this is such a cool opportunity. If we could get a poster done (I guess any cool ingame screenshot would do), it could be used to start forum discussions around (the thief forum, for example), post it on facebook, on steam or whatever it is (have not used it), moddb, on the news section of the site... Maybe that would bring a few more guys to join up.

[teh_saccade]

That is a good idea.

 

In personal ambition, we remain individual.
As a group, we achieve as one.
Achievement results from the realisation of ambition.
In any ambitious undertaking, it is never enough to rely simply upon oneself.

I like ambitious people - they inspire me.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BEzIPDJPwss

Ambition must be realistic, unless it is preferable to fail than be among the greatest.

 

I would volunteer to make such a poster, should I be able to acquire some brand assets and copy - perhaps complete before end of May.

[Springheel]

I considered posting something on TTLG, but I feel like there is some sensitivity over there about TDM members pestering mappers to switch to TDM. I don't want to add to it.

[NeonsStyle]

I think it's a good idea. The first lesson should be how to build with modules, and the second how to build with brushes, so you end

up with complete mappers.

 

The only suggestion I could make for the video side of it, is speak up, and not mumble. It's often hard to remember that you're speaking

to strangers who aren't familiar with you. I do this all the time, and end up having to re-record something because what I said was unintelligible lol.

 

As for the mentor side of things, I think it's a great idea, something more of us could help with if needed. There are a lot of very talented people here.

 

Neon

[teh_saccade]

Perhaps attraction is preferable to pestering and attempted pilfering?

Common ground placement, "if you build it, they will come [in their pants, if it's awesome enough]", rather than intrusive raids to "kidnap".

There's also the question of old guard vs new blood.
I see plenty of old guard here who are very knowledgeable wrt TDM and there are newbloods (such as myself and many others I have read in the forums) who are keen.

I switched here from T2/3 FMs and TTLG forums because I played TDM and used DR and thought, hey - I can have more fun with this.
No-one asked and no-one noticed.

http://www.gnartsch.de/Thief-FM/Thief-FanMissions.shtml <--- good list of resources to read, regularly crawled - places such as Arianne even have forums devoted to TDM.

 

// If I lurk there, it's likely they lurk here. Cliques are weird.

Edited May 18, 2017 by teh_saccade

[Fingernail]

I'd be up for this potentially... I'm still working but haven't shown anything as it's still very early stages. I've also scaled back my initial idea in favour of something smaller and more achievable, which I may actually get done....

[Aosys]

I might participate too? It depends on what my schedule looks like, but definitely I think the whole idea is super awesome!

[demagogue]

I think we can post on TTLG, it's just a matter of how you phrase things. You need to phrase it like, we love FMs wherever they come from, and enjoy TDM and T2 FMs existing side by side, and we hope there's more crosspolination in our communities.

 

Then you bring up we're having a new mapper workshop for people to learn how TDM mapping works, if you're curious. There's no expectation for you to become a TDM mapper if you want to stay with T2 mapping. But you may have a broader perspective learning TDM, or you may be one of the types that builds on both T2 and TDM both (at least I've heard such people may exist).

 

Edit. On second thought it might be better to keep it short and sweet. "Hey everybody, we're having a TDM new mapper workshop you can join if you're curious. No pressure to become a TDM mapper. Just an workshop open to everybody curious." Or I don't know. Some people might get annoyed no matter what, but you can maximize the good will by being as deferential and nonchalant as possible. And at the end of the day, these are just games and it's not like a real dispute or rivalry.

[RPGista]

Yeah, a "hey we are having a TDM mapping workshop directed by one of the team's leaders if you are curious" should work well. But really, I dont think TTLG should be a priority, I see perhaps more potential on new "forums" like the facebook page, steam, moddb, cg artists forums (hell, a lot of assets here were made in blender (mine, for example), maybe we could post on their community), the main page news section, we can contact some of the online magazines that have mentioned TDM in the past and maybe they would be interested in spreading the word. I dont know, just seems like a harmless way of gathering a bit more attention. I can make a simple poster if it comes to that. But its up to springheel and what he envisions for the workshop to be.

[Springheel]

I was imagining something small scale to being with: five or six mappers would be ideal. I'm not going to turn people away, but much more than that and it becomes easier for people to slip through the cracks. If it's successful, there's nothing stopping us from doing another one.

 

I'll wait another week or two to see if there are any other interested parties, and then we'll see how many people are able to participate, then go from there.

[DoubleOhZero]

I'd be very interested - I will have lots of free time coming up soon and I've got a half-completed WIP FM that I have been tinkering with but not really making nay progress on - would love to be involved with this workshop.

[Springheel]

Great! I'll be posting something in a matter of days.

[Springheel]

Ok, the sign-up thread is here: http://forums.thedarkmod.com/topic/18931-new-mappers-workshop-sign-up-here/