Jump to content
The Dark Mod Forums
Sign in to follow this  
stumpy

NSA not hacked apparently

Recommended Posts

Im sorry, but this is completely misguided. Even if it were true, and we have reasons to be skeptical about what the us gov says these people are, as they have a lot of interest in the matter, whatever a whistleblower happens to be personally has nothing whatsoever to do with the information he has exposed. The information is either true, or it is false. Every other aspect in the matter is secondary in relation to this simple fact. Now if you choose to ignore the incredible atrocities they have dennounced but feel confortable in accusing them of being vile criminals because they happened to break confidentiality laws (designed specifically to prevent the gov officials from having to answer for their crimes in office), then you see why you are perhaps misguided.

 

As for the burning of the witch (assange), Im glad your leaders and authority figures have made some of you feel safer by finally taking this evil, evil man out of circulation.

:D

 

Safety (in the first world) is the today's Sauron Ring.....the one ring to rule them all (without any war real danger ad the door, there's no more atomic bomb menace and please don't tell me the laws can evict the brutal/violent tendencies in human beings, they barely can control them and so will still be through "monitor&control" policy).

 

Be safe! Be a gear of the system, keep it functional.....and eventually be a good beloved dead under your - of course totally confortable and safe as you, sir, has meritocratically deserved after a so conformistically commited life - tombstone (reminder for the livings ones: press F the pay respects - https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/press-f-to-pay-respects )

Edited by lowenz
  • Like 1

Task is not so much to see what no one has yet seen but to think what nobody has yet thought about that which everybody see. - E.S.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I got the idea Assange's day finally came because he was smearing poo on the walls inside the embassy, and probably that he was starting to go full Howard Hughes judging by his appearance, and somebody in the embassy made a command decision, probably after repeated warnings that went unheeded, that he'd overstayed his welcome and the embassy invited the police in to get him.

 

More broadly speaking, as a public law lawyer I'm interested in transparency and accountability. I've done FOIA work before (Freedom of Information Act, the law that requires the gov't to release certain info and there's a whole process about it), and have always felt the more info released the better. But I also feel like there needs to be rules where if something is abused, the person can be punished. That's the problem with Wikileaks. It's not accountable like gov't actors are, and Assange's case has always struck me as what impunity does to people, where he started getting cocky and rampantly abusing his power and using Wikileaks for blatant propaganda. If you're going to have it at all, it needs to be independent, professional, and its officers need to be accountable for what they're doing. They weren't. So this is an important step in that direction.

  • Like 3

20js9wp.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't care about Assange one way or the other. From what I read, he was abusing the hospitality of the Ecuadorian embassy and engaging in political activities, which is something you are not supposed to do while claiming asylum. Maybe he did do something unpleasant in Sweden and maybe he didn't, but there's no good reason why he should simply be able to evade a proper investigation and (if necessary) a trial.

 

Nevertheless, if he didn't actually hack US systems but is still extradited to the US for receiving and publishing classified information passed to him by someone else, that sets a terrible precedent. It would imply that US laws around official secrets apply to everybody, everywhere in the world, regardless of whether they have any connection to the US or have committed crimes on US soil. No single state government should have that kind of worldwide power.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
More broadly speaking, as a public law lawyer I'm interested in transparency and accountability. I've done FOIA work before (Freedom of Information Act, the law that requires the gov't to release certain info and there's a whole process about it), and have always felt the more info released the better. But I also feel like there needs to be rules where if something is abused, the person can be punished.

 

But why accountability makes you feel safe knowing everyone can exchange "public accountability" for "not-so-public benefits" ?

Public accountability can work if you care about your public image/figure, if you don't care about it's worthless (same for every "punitive" action if you don't care about - all this "public image dimension" seems so ethereal to me knowing a human being can't be reduced to his/her social image/projection).

Edited by lowenz

Task is not so much to see what no one has yet seen but to think what nobody has yet thought about that which everybody see. - E.S.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nevertheless, if he didn't actually hack US systems but is still extradited to the US for receiving and publishing classified information passed to him by someone else, that sets a terrible precedent. It would imply that US laws around official secrets apply to everybody, everywhere in the world, regardless of whether they have any connection to the US or have committed crimes on US soil. No single state government should have that kind of worldwide power.

You got it man......but having "complete power" is what every state is about. To expand jurisdiction limits to protect people "interests" (it's how they sell it).

"Limited power" is enough power or a weakness in the system to resolve?

 

And there's always a way to justify more power when you accept that you need power (and you can even use the "powerless rights" propaganda as a jump pad / noble cover).

Edited by lowenz

Task is not so much to see what no one has yet seen but to think what nobody has yet thought about that which everybody see. - E.S.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Im sorry, but this is completely misguided. Even if it were true, and we have reasons to be skeptical about what the us gov says these people are, as they have a lot of interest in the matter, whatever a whistleblower happens to be personally has nothing whatsoever to do with the information he has exposed. The information is either true, or it is false. Every other aspect in the matter is secondary in relation to this simple fact. Now if you choose to ignore the incredible atrocities they have dennounced but feel confortable in accusing them of being vile criminals because they happened to break confidentiality laws (designed specifically to prevent the gov officials from having to answer for their crimes in office), then you see why you are perhaps misguided.

 

As for the burning of the witch (assange), Im glad your leaders and authority figures have made some of you feel safer by finally taking this evil, evil man out of circulation.

My sincerest apologies. I've been so busy looking into plutonium tea and Novichok filled perfumes that I forgot what true witch burning looks like.

The true question - is Assange fighting evil systems or serving his own vanity?

People like Sakharov or Vaclav Havel never allowed themselves that.

Nobody can propose a better foreign policy than the US because for China, Russia and the EU it's always "just business".


"I really perceive that vanity about which most men merely prate — the vanity of the human or temporal life. I live continually in a reverie of the future. I have no faith in human perfectibility. I think that human exertion will have no appreciable effect upon humanity. Man is now only more active — not more happy — nor more wise, than he was 6000 years ago. The result will never vary — and to suppose that it will, is to suppose that the foregone man has lived in vain — that the foregone time is but the rudiment of the future — that the myriads who have perished have not been upon equal footing with ourselves — nor are we with our posterity. I cannot agree to lose sight of man the individual, in man the mass."...

- 2 July 1844 letter to James Russell Lowell from Edgar Allan Poe.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's not about being a hero (and there's no such thing as "heroship" :P or "being a hero by the book" :D ), it's about to not being blinded by the illusion (i could say "delusion") that the law is the ultimate word about being human. "Civilisation" is NOT "Society" (luckly, I dare to say).

 

Oh, i would definitely say that it's about being a hero. And also about being confused about good and evil. And also about being confused about thousands of years of human development, progress and experience with the human nature. The younger generation (arguably the most influenced in regards of "whistleblowers") is confused about a lot of things. I can't explain otherwise why conspiracy theories are such a thing these days. Actually, i talked with my father about the very same thing earlier today, and he told me about something he heard in the series he watches, where a pastor, when asked if there is any proof that god exists replied "Well... do you have any proof that he doesn't exist?". In my opinion, that pretty well shows the argumentation. The problem is, i could claim that alien monsters exists, which suck our brains out, and we just can't see and perceive then. Who could claim that it is not the case? And that pretty much sums up conspiracy theories for me. And the ineducated hotbed which breeds them.

Edited by chakkman
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Oh, i would definitely say that it's about being a hero. And also about being confused about good and evil. And also about being confused about thousands of years of human development, progress and experience with the human nature. The younger generation (arguably the most influenced in regards of "whistleblowers") is confused about a lot of things. I can't explain otherwise why conspiracy theories are such a thing these days. Actually, i talked with my father about the very same thing earlier today, and he told me about something he heard in the series he watches, where a pastor, when asked if there is any proof that god exists replied "Well... do you have any proof that he doesn't exist?". In my opinion, that pretty well shows the argumentation. The problem is, i could claim that alien monsters exists, which suck our brains out, and we just can't see and perceive then. Who could claim that it is not the case? And that pretty much sums up conspiracy theories for me. And the ineducated hotbed which breeds them.

Actually conspiracy theories are *conservative* propaganda strategic weapons, 'cause that far-right-devoted people really like the idea that the "state" is not the "real state" (as the "pope" is not the "real pope" as you ask to a far-right catholic) cause it is too much gentle about people like Assange....."the real state must be feared AS GOD" ,"the real state must strike you down for your own good".

 

And you know the same people can't consider the today "progress" as a real progress (and so they claim about "cultural marxism" all the way down, everywhere they see it like a phantom - a phantom of their weak mind I could say), being *conservative* exactly 'cause that. It's what being *conservative* is about today, spreading paranoia and fearmongering "fighting for the real good".

Edited by lowenz

Task is not so much to see what no one has yet seen but to think what nobody has yet thought about that which everybody see. - E.S.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My sincerest apologies. I've been so busy looking into plutonium tea and Novichok filled perfumes that I forgot what true witch burning looks like.

The true question - is Assange fighting evil systems or serving his own vanity?

People like Sakharov or Vaclav Havel never allowed themselves that.

Nobody can propose a better foreign policy than the US because for China, Russia and the EU it's always "just business".

Can a man NOT serve his own vanity?

Can the abnegation kills the narcisism?

A totally selfless (for the state!) man is a man? Can he recognize and accept another man limits having bypassed his own limits?

 

They are tough questions, psychologically and sociologically speaking.

Edited by lowenz

Task is not so much to see what no one has yet seen but to think what nobody has yet thought about that which everybody see. - E.S.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

People like Sakharov

GREAT people like Sakharov (it's not by chance STALKER devs named an NPC Sakharov :D) became an icon of freedom, but being an icon isn't itself counterproductive if you want people to avoid following any idealistic narrative?

(Dead) Icons sell so well (so they become like counterintuitive pillars of the system they fought when alive, take Guevara as a clear example about how our system can reduce a militant figher to an Invisible Hand Inc asset :P - express yourself.....BUYING THE DAMN SHIRT )

 

Remember Nietzsche in Ecce Homo "I got a terrible fear they'll make me a saint".

Edited by lowenz

Task is not so much to see what no one has yet seen but to think what nobody has yet thought about that which everybody see. - E.S.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't care about Assange one way or the other. Nevertheless, if he didn't actually hack US systems but is still extradited to the US for receiving and publishing classified information passed to him by someone else, that sets a terrible precedent. It would imply that US laws around official secrets apply to everybody, everywhere in the world, regardless of whether they have any connection to the US or have committed crimes on US soil. No single state government should have that kind of worldwide power.

Spot on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Actually conspiracy theories are *conservative* propaganda strategic weapons

 

Yes, yes, of course. Your side is totally rational and smart, and it's only the other people who believe in stupid conspiracy theories.

 

The other side of course would say the exact same thing. The Real WTF is that you think that's a convincing or persuasive argument.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Yes, yes, of course. Your side is totally rational and smart, and it's only the other people who believe in stupid conspiracy theories.

 

The other side of course would say the exact same thing. The Real WTF is that you think that's a convincing or persuasive argument.

 

I'm not "sided" anywhere :P (Do you know the greek figure of Diogenes? Here I am :D )

I despise the "libtard" as a human stereotype, but still I consider the "libtard-obsessed" individuals as the maximum expression of retard in knowing how the political manipulation acts.

 

It's not an "argument", it's a straight up fact that TODAY (2019) in the so-called Souverainism era the conspiracies are strange attractors (using a system theory term :P ) for the far(-alt)-right people actually perverting and proposing in a convoluted way the same marxist thesis they despise if presented in communist form.

 

Take Evalion ( https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Evalion ) "back-end" people.....they are straight up believers in Strasser ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregor_Strasser ) ideas.

Edited by lowenz

Task is not so much to see what no one has yet seen but to think what nobody has yet thought about that which everybody see. - E.S.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm afraid, as so often, i have to bail out of this argument, because, no side will convince the other anyway, and, frankly, the argumentation becomes way too esoteric. :) I'm not esoteric. I believe in facts when i see them. That's how i tick. And that's also why no conspiracy theory in the world can convince me, especially when they come from people from the far left spectrum. Especially the Snowden whistleblower affair was absolutely ridiculous, especially when you consider that he fled from the evil, evil american sectret services... and got asylum in a country which is led by a former high tier employee of the much more evil russian secret service. If i was a friend of conspiracy theories, i would say that that would have been stuff for a very good script. ;)

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, take this by the way: today "alt-right" movement is an expression of some kind of unholy "reactionary anticapitalism" humus that always existed here in Europe (take our italian Fascism as example). They imported it into the US to fight Obama/Clinton establishment using Trump as a non-GOP champion (and that move won the game) and then re-exported it worldwide customizing/tailoring it for every nation (France->Le Pen, UK->Farrage, Italy->Salvini, etc. etc. etc.)

Of course Russia is happy about this, so no need to tell me that Assange acted as a useful idiot for Putin (and Dugin) :P

Edited by lowenz

Task is not so much to see what no one has yet seen but to think what nobody has yet thought about that which everybody see. - E.S.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

"cultural marxism"

Agreed that this is extremist stuff.

But, you can hardly deny that socialists are very friendly to Russia, even if their internal policy for the country looks neat. From Simone de Beauvoir, Jean Paul Sartre to politicians from France or Germany (Nord Stream 2).

 

 

Can a man NOT serve his own vanity?

Can the abnegation kills the narcisism?

A totally selfless (for the state!) man is a man? Can he recognize and accept another man limits having bypassed his own limits?

 

They are tough questions, psychologically and sociologically speaking.

Another problem altogether is when he labels himself as such a hero... When Assange disregards the sanctions that the civilized world imposed on Russia for poisoning Skripal... Incredible cynicism.

 

How many times should we be so naive?

Edited by Anderson

"I really perceive that vanity about which most men merely prate — the vanity of the human or temporal life. I live continually in a reverie of the future. I have no faith in human perfectibility. I think that human exertion will have no appreciable effect upon humanity. Man is now only more active — not more happy — nor more wise, than he was 6000 years ago. The result will never vary — and to suppose that it will, is to suppose that the foregone man has lived in vain — that the foregone time is but the rudiment of the future — that the myriads who have perished have not been upon equal footing with ourselves — nor are we with our posterity. I cannot agree to lose sight of man the individual, in man the mass."...

- 2 July 1844 letter to James Russell Lowell from Edgar Allan Poe.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Agreed that this is extremist stuff.

But, you can hardly deny that socialists are very friendly to Russia, even if their internal policy for the country looks neat. From Simone de Beauvoir, Jean Paul Sartre to politicians from France or Germany (Nord Stream 2).

Problem is "I see everywhere cultural marxism" extremists are the first (degenerate kind of) marxists today.

Reactionary marxists (aka souverainists or if you prefer "proper national-socialists" = "strasserists" back in the days) that label as cultural marxists the liberal leftists to avoid being recognized for their real nature as marxist theyself.

 

And it's not a secret that souverainists appreciate Stalin as a strong nationalist leader vs Lenin seen as a fool revolutionary. Because you know, souverainists simply love the idea of an iron-forged identitary society (Russia vs old "multiethnic and collectivist" - and so "weak" - URSS). So TODAY it's not through socialism itself that Russia makes "friends", it's through strength fascination of those states organized as mystical bodies (the idea behind italian fascism was to forge people as the mystical body of the State) such the OLD soviet reality that now can "be great again".

You can't even imagine how much here in Italy we went submerged by Putin memes during the 24 months before 2018 elections.....Putin everywhere on Facebook literally as a prometheic figure (and in fact he's the contrary).

Edited by lowenz
  • Like 1

Task is not so much to see what no one has yet seen but to think what nobody has yet thought about that which everybody see. - E.S.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Another problem altogether is when he labels himself as such a hero... When Assange disregards the sanctions that the civilized world imposed on Russia for poisoning Skripal... Incredible cynicism.

 

How many times should we be so naive?

Naive or slave to the nostalgic narrative?

 

Here in Italy when someone speaks about "sanctions" the far-right go full force "Remember when in 1936 the callous Albion - the UK :D - imposed sanctions against out beloved grandfathers to strangle us? Now they bring the same to our russian brothers, those imperialists!" bla bla bla.....you know the trick....and it works everytime :(

 

It's a display of course, a smoke screen, but it works.....humans are so fool(ish) and self-victimizing.

Edited by lowenz
  • Like 1

Task is not so much to see what no one has yet seen but to think what nobody has yet thought about that which everybody see. - E.S.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...