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TDM NEW MAPPERS WORKSHOP

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It shows as public to me. Maybe it wasn't finished processing yet?

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Sticky this when it's complete, it's a damn fine idea


I have an eclectic YouTube channel making videos on a variety of games. Come and have look here:

https://www.youtube.com/c/NeonsStyleHD

 

Dark Mod Missions: Briarwood Manor - available here or in game

http://forums.thedarkmod.com/topic/18980-fan-mission-briarwood-manor-by-neonsstyle-first-mission-6082017-update-16/

 

 

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Thanks for that.

 

I think it was a very good idea to impress upon people the importance of establishing limits. I've had this issue with my own programming projects, where I'll have this grand idea in mind but never actually finish it because the scope ends up being just too large for person to handle. By working on smaller projects that become building blocks for future projects, it's possible to incorporate the things I've learnt and built previously, but can now use the ideas I had but didn't have the time to implement previously. Good to see that mapping is exactly the same. :)

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Love the video. Great start to things, thanks! Will be jotting some things down over the upcoming days to get some map/mission ideas on paper

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Great work on the video, keep 'em coming because this isn't necessarily just a nice resource for TDM mappers but level designers in general. B)

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I think I've completed this phase of the workshop, except for downloading Dark Radiant. Will do that soon.

 

I was thinking of making four regions: mansion, courtyard, town, and sewer. But the sewer will be very basic... maybe just a single tunnel with a small room or two as points-of-interest. I'm okay with keeping the courtyard and town pretty basic, too. For my courtyard, I'm thinking along the lines of the perimeter lawn areas in Thief 2: Running Interference. But depending on how things go, I wouldn't mind adding a fountain, some hedges, a few trees, and a statue or two; unless they'd be too complicated to implement at this time.

 

I'm okay with keeping everything pretty basic, since I don't want to overdo it, like you say.

 

Note: I want to become fairly proficient someday at making other things, like crypts. Do you have a guess as to how behind-the-curve on crypts I might become for not choosing them as one of my regions for this workshop? Or if I chose crypts instead of towns, how behind-the-curve would I get on towns? Just curious, to help me weigh the pros and cons of choosing the regions I have.

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I was thinking of making four regions: mansion, courtyard, town, and sewer. But the sewer will be very basic... maybe just a single tunnel with a small room or two as points-of-interest. I'm okay with keeping the courtyard and town pretty basic, too. For my courtyard, I'm thinking along the lines of the perimeter lawn areas in Thief 2: Running Interference. But depending on how things go, I wouldn't mind adding a fountain, some hedges, a few trees, and a statue or two; unless they'd be too complicated to implement at this time.

Note: I want to become fairly proficient someday at making other things, like crypts. Do you have a guess as to how behind-the-curve on crypts I might become for not choosing them as one of my regions for this workshop? Or if I chose crypts instead of towns, how behind-the-curve would I get on towns? Just curious, to help me weigh the pros and cons of choosing the regions I have.

 

We do have some good hedge and "lawn" type props, so that shouldn't be a problem.

 

As for crypts, it depends a little on the kind of crypt you have in mind. I plan on releasing some vaulted ceiling crypt-like modules in a package that people could use in this workshop if they like. There is also a tutorial somewhere (the link below is one, but I've seen a better one--have to find it later) on how to make vaulted ceilings in DR that didn't look too difficult--once you make one or two pieces, it's fairly easy to clone them around. http://wiki.thedarkmod.com/index.php?title=Vaulting_Junctions

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How is everyone else coming along? I'm putting together the next video already and aim to post on Sunday.

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I have put my planning so far in a LibreOffice Presentation as I prefer a digital version of notes. This is how it looks like:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/az5ndnmb96qu4qa/Level%20plan.odp?dl=0

I think I am good to go to continue. I think I might want another secret for the player to discover (have only one so far).

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I'm still struggling with defining the levels main goal. Should it be

- To steal an object?

- To assassinate someone?

- To hijack somebody?

- .....

So many options to choose from. The main thing that ceeps me occupied is how to later develop a neat and interesting story around it.

 

About the basic shape: I think I'll stick with the majority and aim for a mason mission. Nothing too fancy or extraordinary. I plan roughly 4 regions:

 

 

- A larger interior region.

- A smaller cellar.

- A small garden.

- A tiny fronyard/city street section.

 

 

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I have put my planning so far in a LibreOffice Presentation as I prefer a digital version of notes. This is how it looks like:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/az5ndnmb96qu4qa/Level%20plan.odp?dl=0

I think I am good to go to continue. I think I might want another secret for the player to discover (have only one so far).

 

That sounds fine...just be careful about letting the mansion get too large. You might want to use the same trick I'm going to use and block off areas of the mansion with dummy doors so the player can't access them. Mapping out an entire mansion would be months of work. Other ways of blocking off areas (so you don't have to map them) include:

 

1. An objective that fails if the player goes beyond a certain point ("Don't interrupt the Baron's party..stay on the second floor")

 

2. Physical barriers (The mansion is undergoing renovation and is blocked off)

 

3. An AI that cannot be bypassed (this takes some work to avoid loopholes).

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I'm still struggling with defining the levels main goal. Should it be

- To steal an object?

- To assassinate someone?

- To hijack somebody?

- .....

So many options to choose from. The main thing that ceeps me occupied is how to later develop a neat and interesting story around it.

 

 

What makes something an interesting story is never the basic plot. There are only a limited number of plots out there. Generally what makes it interesting is how it develops, how the player learns bits and pieces as they go. That's why secrets/mysteries are so useful. If the player knows everything at the start of the mission, a lot of potential enjoyment is lost.

 

Also, don't get too hung up on story. Plenty of great Thief missions had very basic stories. Gameplay, verisimilitude (feeling of being in a real place), exploration, and story all work together to create a strong mission. As long as two of those are well done, you're in good shape.

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That sounds fine...just be careful about letting the mansion get too large. You might want to use the same trick I'm going to use and block off areas of the mansion with dummy doors so the player can't access them. Mapping out an entire mansion would be months of work. Other ways of blocking off areas (so you don't have to map them) include:

 

1. An objective that fails if the player goes beyond a certain point ("Don't interrupt the Baron's party..stay on the second floor")

 

2. Physical barriers (The mansion is undergoing renovation and is blocked off)

 

3. An AI that cannot be bypassed (this takes some work to avoid loopholes).

I will keep it in mind, thanks! In my mind I pictured a couple of counter windows (like in a bank) and an area for waiting people in the west and only a small hallway with the stairs in the east. I am not quite sure if I want this hallway to be accessible from the waiting area. Both scenarios would make sense, I think. For the upper floor I intended two or three smaller offices (or a big room with several desks), a larger office for the boss/abbot/highest ranked builder above the smithy, and a balustrade above the counter windows. I originally intended this to be the whole building, but I like the idea to use dummy doors and make it appear part of a bigger building even better. It really helps to talk to people for input :)

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Since a number of people are doing mansion interiors, I'm going to create some prefabs using the mansion modules (basic hallways, rooms, etc). Should help speed things up.

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I am looking at a street with some sort of shop and a cellar and some rare object hidden somewhere inside.

 

Haven't worked out how to access shop from street yet. Might be from shop frontage or via cellar trapdoor in street (down side of shop?)

 

Shop to have three rooms upstairs and three down

 

I don't know whether this may be a bit ambitious for a first time!!

 

 

 

Second thoughts maybe an inn with a wine cellar and accommodation upstairs. That would work I think better

Edited by marcuskiwi
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I was thinking of having a greenhouse next to my mansion, out back. Is that a bad idea for this stage of my DarkRadiant career? Like an oversized shed, but with glass walls, more or less, of course. Player will likely be able to get on top of its roof as a way of getting inside mansion in an unlocked window, or balconey, etc.

 

Probably just need an assortment of potted plants and flowers, tools, bags of seeds/dirt (or the semblance/illusion of)... maybe some bright focused lighting like in a dimly lit museum.

Edited by Darkness_Falls

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I am looking at a street with some sort of shop and a cellar and some rare object hidden somewhere inside.

 

Haven't worked out how to access shop from street yet. Might be from shop frontage or via cellar trapdoor in street (down side of shop?)

 

Shop to have three rooms upstairs and three down

 

I don't know whether this may be a bit ambitious for a first time!!

 

Second thoughts maybe an inn with a wine cellar and accommodation upstairs. That would work I think better

 

I don't think that's too ambitious. We have a lot of good street modules to help with building city areas.

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I was thinking of having a greenhouse next to my mansion, out back. Is that a bad idea for this stage of my DarkRadiant career? Like an oversized shed, but with glass walls, more or less, of course. Player will likely be able to get on top of its roof as a way of getting inside mansion in an unlocked window, or balconey, etc.

 

Probably just need an assortment of potted plants and flowers, tools, bags of seeds/dirt (or the semblance/illusion of)... maybe some bright focused lighting like in a dimly lit museum.

 

 

That should be doable. Working with glass always adds an extra level of difficulty, but nothing too serious.

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I was thinking of having a street (or perhaps a thieves highway) with a few points of interest - accessible office of a guardhouse; or the garret room of a minor character.

 

The main objective will be in the house of a well-to-do merchant - not quite a mansion. So I'm thinking going over a high wall to a garden/yard, a biggish house, and a cellar area. Access points above and below.

 

Once in the house the thief will see there's more to the job than meets the eye...

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