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Springheel

TDM NEW MAPPERS WORKSHOP

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I've been away on vacation, but I'm working on the next lesson now.

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Pretty cool! You answered most of my questions that popped into my mind while you were talking (sound attenuation/falloff, random timing to looping sounds (+/-5 secs), sound triggers, etc.), so "Thanks" for being thorough... and it's awesome the toolset is so flexible!

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Regarding ambients some point to be aware of -

  • If the s_mindistance is almost the same as the s_maxdistance, the sound will fade-in and out abruptly.
  • if they are a point source like say a cricket in a bush/tree you absolutely want the s_mindistance to be 0 because - you want the sound the fade in/out gradually and you want the allow the sound to be directional (this only applied to ambient sounds that are mono.
  • If the ambient sound is stereo, the engine wont treat them as directional. These ambient are excepted as being just that, an ambient sound to fill the area the player is in - and its the one that applied to Springheel's point @ 7:53
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Regarding ambients some point to be aware of -

  • If the s_mindistance is almost the same as the s_maxdistance, the sound will fade-in and out abruptly.
  • if they are a point source like say a cricket in a bush/tree you absolutely want the s_mindistance to be 0 because - you want the sound the fade in/out gradually and you want the allow the sound to be directional (this only applied to ambient sounds that are mono.
  • If the ambient sound is stereo, the engine wont treat them as directional. These ambient are excepted as being just that, an ambient sound to fill the area the player is in - and its the one that applied to Springheel's point @ 7:53

 

 

Wrote it for you in the YouTube comments for longevity of the info.


"I really perceive that vanity about which most men merely prate — the vanity of the human or temporal life. I live continually in a reverie of the future. I have no faith in human perfectibility. I think that human exertion will have no appreciable effect upon humanity. Man is now only more active — not more happy — nor more wise, than he was 6000 years ago. The result will never vary — and to suppose that it will, is to suppose that the foregone man has lived in vain — that the foregone time is but the rudiment of the future — that the myriads who have perished have not been upon equal footing with ourselves — nor are we with our posterity. I cannot agree to lose sight of man the individual, in man the mass."...

- 2 July 1844 letter to James Russell Lowell from Edgar Allan Poe.

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Wrote it for you in the YouTube comments for longevity of the info.

 

Points 1 and 2 were already covered in the video. Point 3 is only partially true, but gets into details that new mappers don't really need to know about.

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How is everyone coming on their missions, btw? It's been a little quiet the past couple weeks.

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Springheel, really enjoying the videos.

 

I’ve built by main house and sealed it up fairly well. I began working on an outdoor city street area and got a little carried away. Ended up with a few winding streets without really considering sealing and visleafs. Lesson 2 warned against that very thing, I know!

 

Outline is here: http://imgur.com/97ze0OY

 

For the time being I’ve just thrown a big portal sky around it all. Looking at your prologue map, the streets seem to be sealed with very large brushes of caulk and visportals. Should I be thinking of doing the same?

 

One other thing I forgot to mention, Delahunt...I have a video series about making a city street--the part about detailing might be useful. There are special models meant to go at the base of walls to hide the 90 angle there.

 

https://youtu.be/RRIY0K_8B2A?t=20m16s

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Spring, in the next episode when you do water, could you also cover the following please?

 

How to make underwater cloudy, or dark so it's partially clear. ie an ability to set the transparency of underwater.

 

How to have it so the player gets the oxygen meter when underwater. My current mission uses a lot of water,

and the player is going to have to use it, so I need to learn all these things.

 

What I really want, is the green murky water, that looks the same underwater, dark green and murky.

 

Also, I noticed in the grassdemo (where you had the beautiful flowing grass made by Arcturus) that he had water that would reflect lights. I need to learn how to do

that too. I tried to make his version of the water, but it just didn't work. I couldn't get the same look underwater, nor have it reflect lights. I really need that.

 

Thanks, love ur series, it's really really good.I hope you keep going after you feel ur done.

 

Neon

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I have an eclectic YouTube channel making videos on a variety of games. Come and have look here:

https://www.youtube.com/c/NeonsStyleHD

 

Dark Mod Missions: Briarwood Manor - available here or in game

http://forums.thedarkmod.com/topic/18980-fan-mission-briarwood-manor-by-neonsstyle-first-mission-6082017-update-16/

 

 

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Water can be quite complex to work with, and frankly I don't know that much about it. In my 4 missions, only one has had water and it was mostly copied from the water in the training mission.

 

I'll doubt I'll be able to cover more than the basics in the video, but that should include murk.

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How is everyone coming on their missions, btw? It's been a little quiet the past couple weeks.

Good, these videos are helping out tremendously! I do have the same problem as Delahunt though as I'm trying to make this map wayyyyy too big. Gotta keep my map in check before it goes all over the place.

 

One suggestion for a future video (way on down the line, I'm sure your busy) would be one focusing on nature and maybe weather. Such as how to build a cave or a forest, and how to make it snowy or foggy. I feel like those are two subjects that don't get talked about that much.

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Good, these videos are helping out tremendously! I do have the same problem as Delahunt though as I'm trying to make this map wayyyyy too big

It's one of the biggest problems mappers face; even experienced ones. :)

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How is everyone coming on their missions, btw? It's been a little quiet the past couple weeks.

 

I've gotten behind "implementation-wise", but am feeling pretty good about the teachings you've bestowed upon us, so I, thankfully, don't really feel lost yet. It's just a matter of putting in the man-hours necessary to build and flesh out rooms/areas, which will help to make me feel more and more adept. For more detail on my status, expand the spoiler:

 

 

I've gotten my first room to a point where I feel I can move on, more or less. (There can always be more, but I don't want to worry too much about every detail at this point, since I'm trying to learn concepts.) I made a secret door to another room. I've gotten readables working. I have a good understanding of ambients and sounds, and put in a placeholder ambient track. I duplicated my room, which I need to customize more, and am about to build a hallway. After that, of course, will be stairs, outdoor area, etc. I truly look forward to doing these things! It's less about 'learning' at this point and more about 'doing', which is a cool place to be in. Bottom line: I've been a bit short on time lately (sorry), but will keep trying to chip away at it, as this is important to me.

 

I know what I have doesn't sound like much... and, well, it, admittedly, isn't much compared to where I should be and where others are. But I really feel as though it's just a matter of putting in the time to crank out the output. (I enjoyed messing around with particles for a couple hours, which was a fun diversion, as I'm into effects... but I try to balance experimentation (to learn, appease curiosity, and prepare for future mapping endeavors) with implementation.)

 

Edited by Darkness_Falls
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It's less about 'learning' at this point and more about 'doing', which is a cool place to be in.

 

 

Glad to hear it!

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Next lesson is up:

 

 

 

To install the new particle effect mentioned, create a new folder called "particles" in your mission folder http://www.mindplaces.com/save/splash.prt

The new particle is called water_splash_cycle

 

Wiki page on water: http://wiki.thedarkmod.com/index.php?title=Swimmable_Water

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I really dislike the sealing process. I still feel a bit like I'm throwing darts at a dartboard when trying to figure out why rooms leak. Redoing the brushes multiple times just trying to get something to stick doesn't seem right. I have a feeling I still just don't understand the 'rules' of sealing yet. The purpose of them is to prevent leaks from going out into the gray ether, right?

 

As you see in these screenshots, I have a brush box (a sealing box) completely surrounding this room, yet it leaks. I even have a moat/buffer between the room and the sealing brushes of at least a couple feet so I can clearly see/know that there are no leaks into the gray ether. Are you not supposed to have any gaps between the main room and the sealing brushes or something?

 

EDIT: Will try to upload my 2nd screenshot I wanted to show you shortly. It's saying my file size is too big, and I have to step away for a few first.

 

 

 

 

post-36-0-70237900-1503264227_thumb.jpg

Edited by Darkness_Falls

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I have a feeling I still just don't understand the 'rules' of sealing yet. The purpose of them is to prevent leaks from going out into the gray ether, right?

That's right.

 

 

As you see in these screenshots, I have a brush box (a sealing box) completely surrounding this room, yet it leaks. I even have a moat/buffer between the room and the sealing brushes of at least a couple feet so I can clearly see/know that there are no leaks into the gray ether. Are you not supposed to have any gaps between the main room and the sealing brushes or something?

One suggestion is to filter off all the entities when tracking down leaks (Filter --> All Entities). It can be easier to see the leak without them in the way. I probably can't tell what the problem is from screenshots--you have to get in and look 3d. I'd be happy to look at the map if you're stuck.

 

Rest assured you wouldn't be the first mapper to be frustrated tracking down a confusing leak. It probably happens to everyone at least once a mission.

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If you have a sliver gap or shard or other messy brushwork, the renderer can barf on it, break the seal, and it leaks. But if you use clean brushwork that doesn't happen. If the brushwork is clean, then there has to be a gap in there somewhere.

 

(A leak can happen if an entity is in the void too.)


What do you see when you turn out the light? I can't tell you but I know that it's mine.

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Awesome. It finally happened. I typed a reply in the box, but when I clicked "Post" it told me I wasn't logged in and completely erased my post. Back arrow didn't let me recover my text. So, I still wish the reply box didn't display unless you're logged in ;)

 

So, here's an abbreviated/less-friendly-sounding version of what I tried to post:

Thanks for the replies. Here's the other screenshot; sorry for the delay... though, I realize it may not help at all. My PC has been crashing hard the past while, and last week or two have been particularly brutal, where I can't keep it in the Windows OS environment for longer than 2-5 minutes unless I'm super lucky. Makes it hard to map when I come home after work and spend 30 minutes watching my computer crash over and over in hopes of it eventually working, but I often just give up. So, if I'm unsuccessful at figuring out the leak issue, I'll send you my map for expert diagnosis, but try not to judge my lack of map buildout too much.

 

 

 

rbpRzvP.jpg

 

 

Edited by Darkness_Falls

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Some typical cases leading to leaks are

  • angled brushwork
  • brushwork not on grid
  • working with small grid sizes (for the sealing geometry, it is ok for the rest)
  • using brushwork far away from the world origin
  • minor plane shifting (has been reduced but is still there)
  • using non-sealing (for example transparent) materials on the brushwork
  • entity origins out in the void

The first five points can cause leaks due to rounding errors, so you do everything right but it still leaks. From what I can see in the screenshots this doesn't seem to be the case here, though.

 

It could be that you have used a non-sealing material by accident. The last point would be visible by the pointfile, as the red line would start and end in the void.

 

Btw, from your screenshots it looks like you have placed brushwork directly behind the modules (that is ok) and than surrounded everything with more brushwork farther away (that is odd). Any reason for that, or is this just meant to be temporary and get removed later on?


FM's: Builder Roads, Old Habits, Old Habits Rebuild

WIP's: Several. Although after playing Thief 4 I really wanna make a city mission.

Mapping and Scripting: Apples and Peaches

Sculptris Models and Tutorials: Obsttortes Models

My wiki articles: Obstipedia

Texture Blending in DR: DR ASE Blend Exporter

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Makes it hard to map when I come home after work and spend 30 minutes watching my computer crash over and over

 

 

There's no way I could work under those conditions. :wacko:

 

Again, it's hard to see anything specific in the screenshots...too many models in the way. It certainly looks like it's going through the corner in the top left, which suggests a gap, but I'd have to look at the map to be sure.

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It is quite frustrating, to say the least. Just hope I don't lose hard drive data (like some of my artwork, or photos) in one of the crashes :P I should keep backing up, I suppose.

 

Yeah, seems to be going through that mansion prefab module ... the prefab that has an alcove of windows. But I figured the sealing brush (the bright ornate gold texture, the same texture you used in one of your vids) I created was there to corral it in. So, to me, I thought the issue is that it is escaping my big sealing gold box. I put the big gold box there to prevent anything from entering the ether... but maybe the ether, in the engine's eyes, is a millimeter behind the window alcove and not on the other side of the gold sealing box?

 

I will try to remake the brush box using Grid Size of 8 (in case I used 1, 2, or 4 size and that's bad?), and if that doesn't work, I'll send your way because I am curious :) (10-13 hours from now)

 

Thanks for the list, Obsttorte, that's awesome!

Edited by Darkness_Falls

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Be sure you filter out all the models and entities so that you see only brushwork. It's a lot easier to see gaps then.

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And filter the patches. They won't seal, too. (Although it looks you haven't used some of them. However, good thing to keep in mind.)


FM's: Builder Roads, Old Habits, Old Habits Rebuild

WIP's: Several. Although after playing Thief 4 I really wanna make a city mission.

Mapping and Scripting: Apples and Peaches

Sculptris Models and Tutorials: Obsttortes Models

My wiki articles: Obstipedia

Texture Blending in DR: DR ASE Blend Exporter

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