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CarltonTroisi

Important member banned

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A bit surprised by the banning, but now after reading through all of this, I understand it completely.

 

Listen, Bikerdude is a good guy. I shared some beers with him and Sirtaffsalot, back in the day. Hes helped me, as well as others. Obviously, he has been going through personal issues for a good while now, things which we all must eventually face, one time or another. Pretty sure he'll find other avenues for his creativity and new places where to find a sense of belonging. If I could suggest something, it would be to take some art classes, cool way of making new friends. Totally respect the team here. These are all good, generous people themselves. We are lucky to have them - lots of knowledgeable, helpful people to go around. TDM community is covered.

 

We are all coming and going, sometimes we have to move on, sometimes we feel we can contribute yet again. Maybe some of those people will feel like coming back in the future and doing some more great work for us. Steve, Airship, Shadowhide, even Biker himself... Either way, the work theyve already done is here for us to enjoy.

Edited by RPGista
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I don't think I've ever interacted directly with BD much or at all through the years; so, from my perspective, he's always just been one of those names I see as a big Thief fan and big contributor in his own way to TDM. (Sorry BD if I'm just forgetting!... but I am not yet an official mapper, so I'm pretty sure we haven't really chatted much.)

 

But what I'd like to say is that the 'Banned' label being in a vibrant red, bold font underneath his name on his posts now, seems a little harsh. For now, it might be an okay and appropriate font/label; that's not for me to say. However, will it be like that for a year? 5 years? 10 years+? I don't really believe in having that harsh bright red bold stigma tied to him or anyone, engraved in Internet stone, for so long. People can and do change. Sometimes there are personality conflicts that cause a ban in the first place. A whole multitude of reasons can cause disagreements and eventual moderator bans; even if the mod is wrong and the label recipient is right. Sometimes we don't know what the person has gone through or is going through in their personal life. (Though, I do know why BD was banned here, based on this thread and thread(s) before.) I would just hate for the vibrant scarlet letter 'banned' label under his name to follow him the rest of his life, and cause issues (or be a dark cloud) five or ten years from now in his personal life for something he learned from or changed his ways regarding, ya know? I think if it was just black font, or dark gray, that would be effective without it feeling so judge, jury, and executioner for life. It's just my opinion, though. I know he verbally asked for the status change, and his offenses were not well-received by the community; so take my opinion for what it's worth :) (The term 'Banned' has room for being eventually softened, imo, as well ;) ... but I probably shouldn't go there right now.)

 

I think this way for most anyone, really. And by me not really knowing BD, I speak from a perspective of not being biased when I say this.

 

Carry on, friends!

Edited by Darkness_Falls

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I am very, very disappointed to learn it has finally come to this, but with all the issues accumulated in the last few years, I suppose it was inevitable. Sadly enough. :( I'm not thrilled about Bikerdude's banning, but he had plenty of warnings and good-natured heart-to-hearts with the rest of the community about some of his habits as a seasoned TDM contributor. In light of all those warnings and the drama it was causing in this modding community, I can't say BD's banning is unjust. He knew very well he was playing with fire, for a fairly long time now. He was warned plenty of times, but I suppose his compulsion to edit others' FMs is just too strong (or something).

 

I know bans happen only very rarely on these forums, but I'm of the same opinion as the one I hold on another forum I frequent (where plenty of people have gotten banned for repeated bad behaviour or questionable behaviour): Sometimes, the only solution to stop a person from repeating their questionable behaviour is to stop their activity in the community for good. I am exceptionally disappointed this ban had to be carried out, but as Springheel and others have said, Bikerdude had his chances. He's a grown adult. He could have course-corrected at any time.

 

Everything useful he did for TDM in his many years on the development team or as an individual mapper is laudable. With me documenting various stuff for TDM over the last year, I did notice he contributed a great deal of highly useful stuff. However, as Bienie pointed out on the first page, if Bikerdude has a constant compulsion to edit other people's maps, then his banning will probably be helpful not only to restore a sense of calm and trust to this community, but also let him rethink things. TDM might be his hobby, but when a hobby starts becoming intrusive in the work of other contributors to that hobby, something is not right. It's a good point to step back at that moment, relax, etc. Hobbies should never consume us.

 

At this point, Bikerdude had only himself to blame for not listening to previous pleas and advice. I'm pretty sure we all want to get along well here, in a civil and friendly atmosphere, helping each other and respecting each other (and our works). I don't think Bikderdude wanted anything else, but he became blind or deaf to the warnings of others that he's began to cross some acceptable boundaries. Being too nosy and immersed in others' work becomes rude after a point, not merely just an interest in helping. If something is a cooperative work, some consent of others is required.

 

I'm sad this had happened, but for a while now, it really felt like this was going to happen sooner or later. I hope Bikerdude won't miss it here too much, and I wish him good luck with whatever positive endeavours he engages in and works on.

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Why is this thread still open?

In engineering terms, I think, it acts as a pressure release valve. Let everyone have their say about the matter here, and then be done with it.

 

Conclusion and closure. Case closed.

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Clipper

-The mapper's best friend.

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BD still 3rd most posts all time in this forum, over 20k.

 

Do you guys think this ban will increase new mods being released or is that some other mechanic altogether? I mean were people holding back modding and releasing due to BD being in the way of production?

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BD still 3rd most posts all time in this forum, over 20k.

 

Do you guys think this ban will increase new mods being released or is that some other mechanic altogether? I mean were people holding back modding and releasing due to BD being in the way of production?

I can't really imagine that. True, there were some concerns discussed due to Bikerdude's most recent stunt, but I do not think that anyone held back anything just because of him. This is a hobbyist community and I believe real life and/or burnout is what gets in the way most of the times. At least, I do not want to believe that the mistrust in this commuity is so big that it would prevent people from releasing stuff.

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Actually, that was already said both here and in other threads, at least I know I raised the point that working in such conditions is really discouraging, and I still mean it. There must be some minimal trust and respect in the community. That or locked map/asset pack files.

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I still don't exactly get what happened.

 

Did BikerDude plagiarize something, and Judith who is pretty much the "prosecutor" here showed proofs, which BD rejected as "false evidence" despite being true, and the 'drama' was going too extreme that Springheel had to use an extreme measure (ban)?

...And this was going on for more than three years, where BikerDude was doing unauthorized map updates?

 

EDIT: Actually, it looks like BikerDude asked to be banned, multiple times even. Kinda makes me be uninterested in this dilemma.

Edited by The Black Arrow

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Good, then let's not warm this up once again.

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If you can't figure out what happened in 4 god damn pages of discussion, then you'll never figure it out.

Why is this thread still open?

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I always assumed I'd taste like boot leather.

 

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Because unlike certain other forums, the moderators of this forum are not an dictatorial elite who ban people from discussing their decisions to ban people.

 

I was asking because after 4 pages, everything that needed to be said, has been said. Leaving it open will just ensure a necro every couple of days/weeks/months, bringing back emotions and feelings that people have moved on from.

It's like a bandaid that keeps getting ripped off, never letting the wound heal.

My 2 cents.


I always assumed I'd taste like boot leather.

 

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I was asking because after 4 pages, everything that needed to be said, has been said. Leaving it open will just ensure a necro every couple of days/weeks/months, bringing back emotions and feelings that people have moved on from.

 

To be honest I'm starting to agree with you. If it's going to get necro'd every few days with "I can't be bothered to read the thread, someone please summarise it for me" then yeah, it's just a distracting make-work for everyone.

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Simple solution:

 

Create a new sub-forum called "What happened to Bikerdude?" and never look at it again except to make sure no spammers post there.


Please visit TDM's IndieDB site and help promote the mod:

 

http://www.indiedb.com/mods/the-dark-mod

 

(Yeah, shameless promotion... but traffic is traffic folks...)

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Lock the Topic? Ewww. Under what premise? Arrogance? I find it marginal and distasteful. The Topic will die eventually anyway. Bikerdude is a liked member here (At least by me) so the news of him getting banned is already pretty severe. Logically it will create reactions. Let it flow. Locking the thread will create an undesired sense of despotism in the Forum. No like.

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If you close this tread you'll run the risk of creating a martyr and conspiracy theorists may conclude that you're trying to hide and/or suppress something.

 

To some, this thread might be an unpleasant reminder of what went wrong but for others it's a place to vent and get some closure. I don't see the harm in that nor is there any evidence of an imminent insurrection. If this thread bothers you, simply don't look at it and that way, you won't have to "waste" your time responding to questions.

 

If you read through this thread, it's a nearly perfect example of people going through the five stages of grief & loss.

 

I'm just playing devil's advocate.

 

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Closing a thread doesn't delete it's contents, you just can't reply anymore......Everyone can still read it as many times as they want.


I always assumed I'd taste like boot leather.

 

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People will just create a new thread. All questions can be addressed here as many times as necessary like on Groundhog Day. No problem.

Edited by Anderson

"I really perceive that vanity about which most men merely prate — the vanity of the human or temporal life. I live continually in a reverie of the future. I have no faith in human perfectibility. I think that human exertion will have no appreciable effect upon humanity. Man is now only more active — not more happy — nor more wise, than he was 6000 years ago. The result will never vary — and to suppose that it will, is to suppose that the foregone man has lived in vain — that the foregone time is but the rudiment of the future — that the myriads who have perished have not been upon equal footing with ourselves — nor are we with our posterity. I cannot agree to lose sight of man the individual, in man the mass."...

- 2 July 1844 letter to James Russell Lowell from Edgar Allan Poe.

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Lock the Topic? Ewww. Under what premise? Arrogance? I find it marginal and distasteful. The Topic will die eventually anyway. Bikerdude is a liked member here (At least by me) so the news of him getting banned is already pretty severe. Logically it will create reactions. Let it flow. Locking the thread will create an undesired sense of despotism in the Forum. No like.

 

Oh give me a break.

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