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frostdiamond

So.....no more Thief games?

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I do miss the days of starting deathmatches on the streets in Thief 3. The AI's would respawn. So all you would do is, get one faction that hates you to chase you to another faction that hates the first, and then climb up somewhere where they couldn't reach or see you, and watch the fun! And when one character lost the fight, another would come a minute or so later and take his place. And of course the loud sounds of shouting and combat attracted everyone in the vicinity.

 

I did this in Thief 1 as a kid too. I just had to see what would happen if I introduced the hammerites to the zombies. Even though the graphics in Thief 1/2 are so primitive, the guards have the best combat animations! The guards don't actually fight very well though; they are very vulnerable to circle strafing. If you circle around and pelt them with small attacks, the Thief 1 and 2 guards can't keep up with you! Useful if you ever decide to do a space marine play-through of those two games.

Edited by kano

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EA/Respawn just released Apex Legends, a free-to-play microtransaction ridden overwatch-like class based battle royale shooter (with the usual restless COD-ish gameplay designed for short attention spans), and it topped 1 million players in under 8 hours. If you pitched a "true" Thief game (not one that's Thief in name only) to the executives of these companies they would laugh in your face. It's up to independent developers targeting niche markets to carry the torch. Maybe there's some yet to be discovered funding model similar to flight sims like DCS (where you ultimately pay more but, well, that's the cost of a niche market) that will actually work for devs that are satisfied to just break even.

 

Even way back in the day I had a hard time getting people to play Thief 2. I stopped trying when I realized that most of them would play it as a melee action game (just as kano described) ... and that approach actually works, which is even more depressing. A friend recommended it to me based on my "personality" and only afterwards did it become clear why prior to that he had never mentioned the game in our circle of friends.

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Even way back in the day I had a hard time getting people to play Thief 2.

Yes, but maybe people were more patienly open those long-gone days.

But remember, people can always learn :) You only must put them in the right state of mind.

Edited by lowenz

Task is not so much to see what no one has yet seen but to think what nobody has yet thought about that which everybody see. - E.S.

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Yes, but maybe people were more patienly open those long-gone days.

But remember, people can always learn :) You only must put them in the right state of mind.

 

 

Hm, how would you change their state of mind? :)

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Online only stuff aside it's not bad. Bigger but less levels, stuff like contracts wouldn't fit in obviously. It's basically a way to preserve traditional big levels while pleasing the AAAs need for a live service, and keeping open world away from the game. But perhaps I should've said a chance over hope, I'd prefer the traditional way of delivering the game.

The problem I was refering to isn't neccessary the way they sold the game, although I am no fan of that either. I've bought it as a boundle after all missions were released. The problem I have with this Hitman is that it's simple not a good game. And you stating that "it's not bad" does sound like you've played better games, either.


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I finished Hitman 2016 some time ago, didn't buy Hitman 2 yet. The game does a few things great, but it's mostly about maintaining its illusion. That feeling of infiltrating some gated, rich, and corrupt society, this is awesome and fun. But that illusion shatters very quickly, when you do something the game doesn't want you to do. That's basically a thing that goes back to origin of the series. It was never good "reactive" simulation, like immersive sims try to be. Hence the Opportunities system, aka "Look how many preset situations we've designed for you to enjoy!" ;)

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To be honest I haven't played Hitman 2016 past Paris, I simply get overwhelmed with the map size and amount of options to kill the target. I hope to come back to it sometime with a different frame of mind later, that's why I'm half assuming it's good since it seems complex to me.

 

I do see a bit of what Judith is saying when he says it's an illusion, I recall in Paris one target has a meeting but he'll never go unless you take the disguise of the person he's meeting no matter how long you wait. In Blood Money that would be a timed event which would trigger after a certain amount of minutes and you could follow them and use that opportunity (sneak into the meeting area, wait from a vantage point with your sniper etc).

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a lot of those kill other people type games are played by 5 year olds, regardless of it being 18 rated or not its a game, so parents buy it for their kids, or if its free to download then kids just lie about their age. 5 year olds are not in the whole interested in stealth games where they have to use their heads to get around. Thats the market today, plus kids can easily hack their parent credit cards and spend at will because they haven't learnt that its wrong by the age of 5 to do that. There's stories on the news here where kids have gone through all the credit on their parents credit card in less than a month, just to buy skins and dance moves for Fortnite. Then theres that guy on youtube who spent $40000 on World of Tanks. Its these types of people who are willing to spend vast amount of money on polygons and stats that make game publishers stick microtransaction into games.

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I finished Hitman 2016 some time ago, didn't buy Hitman 2 yet. The game does a few things great, but it's mostly about maintaining its illusion. That feeling of infiltrating some gated, rich, and corrupt society, this is awesome and fun. But that illusion shatters very quickly, when you do something the game doesn't want you to do. That's basically a thing that goes back to origin of the series. It was never good "reactive" simulation, like immersive sims try to be. Hence the Opportunities system, aka "Look how many preset situations we've designed for you to enjoy!" ;)

 

 

 

Like you stand behind the AI in front of a mirror and the AI doesn't notice the player moving around behind them. That was a letdown for me in Hitman 2016.

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a lot of those kill other people type games are played by 5 year olds, regardless of it being 18 rated or not its a game, so parents buy it for their kids, or if its free to download then kids just lie about their age. 5 year olds are not in the whole interested in stealth games where they have to use their heads to get around. Thats the market today, plus kids can easily hack their parent credit cards and spend at will because they haven't learnt that its wrong by the age of 5 to do that. There's stories on the news here where kids have gone through all the credit on their parents credit card in less than a month, just to buy skins and dance moves for Fortnite. Then theres that guy on youtube who spent $40000 on World of Tanks. Its these types of people who are willing to spend vast amount of money on polygons and stats that make game publishers stick microtransaction into games.

Plus popular YouTubers and Twitch streamers like Funhaus target their shit towards those five year olds! They're very bad for us hardcore stealth gamers!

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"Let me guess - little blue men with three heads stole your sweetroll?"

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Another alternative to Thief are the Styx games, Grand in scope and possible to completely play stealth with no kills, they are phenomenal and I've played them multiple times already, if not for the sheer landscape level design. Unfortunately there won't be any more made as they didn't really do well. But that shouldn't subtract from how fun they are.

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To be honest, i quickly got bored of both Styx games. The level design is pretty ordinary/generic, and, the amount of enemies makes the game somehow repetetive, and uninteresting in the long run. I think the critics are quite right, with a score of about 70/100 for both games. They're not bad, but, not great either.

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