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Domarius

Ghosts

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The light can "shrink" if you are obscuring the source of that light with your motion. And it follows naturally from this that the light will grow when you move back again.

 

Well, the light could be obscured Spar, but it's not going to shrink like a spot light. Picture it like the pupil of your eye growing and shrinking as it adjusts to the light. As I've said, there was no way for this to happen. Not in the way the light shrunk spar. I know what you mean but that's not possible in the way it happened, nor with the setup of the room. It simply wasn't a light on the wall, it was a bluish haze.

 

I'm not a simple minded, believe anything, kind of person. I've been through all the possibilities. There was no moonlight that night, we lived in the country and there are no outside street lights. We had no lights on inside the house...no digital clock displays. All window blinds were completely solid and pulled down. We were nowhere near a road and were surrounded by trees, so it wasn't from traffic.

 

light.jpg

 

You really won't want to hear my story about a possible time loop. :laugh:

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You slept in your parents bedroom? No wonder you've gone a bit mad.

 

OK NH, tell us about your... "time loop". *goes to fetch paddy wagon*

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You slept in your parents bedroom? No wonder you've gone a bit mad.

 

They were remodelling their room. :laugh:

 

OK NH, tell us about your... "time loop". *goes to fetch paddy wagon*

 

Not with that mockery I won't.

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here was no moonlight that night, we lived in the country and there are no outside street lights.

 

Why was there no moonlight? Was it because the moon was not visible at that time of the month, or because it was a cloudy night (and can you be totally sure you remember)?

 

If the moon was obscured by clouds, then a brief gap in the cloud could bring about the phenomenon you describe, especially if there was a small gap in the blind somewhere (there are a lot of windows in that room, you cannot be certain every single one was light-tight unless you are a photographer and regularly use it as a darkroom).

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You're forgetting that both he and his mother saw the same thing. What are the chances of them experiencing the exact same hallucination?

 

Very slim. But we don't know they saw exactly the same thing, unless each of them individually described it in detail in a sealed envelope without any prior communication. As soon as people start talking to each other ("Hey Mum, can you see that light shining over there?"), suggestion comes into play and the witnesses are not independent.

 

Scientific rigour is very important, if extraordinary phenomena are being postulated.

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I feel for you, NH, with everyone trying to explain your experience, and assuming you're daft. In SQA, I get a lot of that, and it's disconcerting...until I prove them wrong. ;) As far as this or any experience, among all who can lay out a possible cause, those who experience it are usually the most qualified, and all are just speculation. It's like picking one out of a possible million reasons. Speculation can be fun though.

 

Anyway...

TIME LOOP STORY!

TIME LOOP STORY!

TIME LOOP STORY!

TIME LOOP STORY!

TIME LOOP STORY!

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Why was there no moonlight? Was it because the moon was not visible at that time of the month, or because it was a cloudy night (and can you be totally sure you remember)?

 

 

It was both, and yup...I am totally sure I remember because that was one of the things we discussed in great detail.

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You guys should start a thread about Exorcism, and the skeptics can argue to death with the believers over whether it was possession or just a violent psychotic.


Loose BOWELS are the first sign of THE CHOLERA MORBUS!

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Yet self reporting is all we have to go on in the case of ghosts, no one has brought in a few grams of ectoplasm to be analyzed, yet.
In fact, Cambridge Library has a sample of "ectoplasm"... Of course, Zoologists have identified it to actually be a peice of sheep's lung. But I felt like arguing with you.

 

@NewHorizon: I've seen other lights do the same thing and shrink when obscured, instead of having a discernable shadow cover them. (I beleive this tends to happen in situations where you have very blurry shadows) Admittedly, from your diagram it's hard to see where the light would be coming from, but I think you should have played around with moving your arms near the lightswitch to see what happened.

 

PS, I'm not trying to make fun of you, it's just that I'll be skeptical of ghosts until I see one myself. I'd love to hear the time-loop story! :D

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NH: seeing a mysterious light that is difficult to explain is no reason to jump to the conclusion that it was a ghost or a spirit or the undead coming to end the world.

 

There are a range of natural phenomena that could easily explain what you saw, though without forensic detail of the secen it would be hard to hazard a guess as to what phenomena would be most likely. One possibility: the light was directly opposite the light switch, and diminished when a hand was passed in front of it, which suggests that a small sliver of light was coming from the light switch, which may have been loosely switched so that some arcing was occuring. The light from this would be in the bluer end of the spectrum, and when projected againt the wall, dust or mist disturbed by a small draught could have been illuminated by the faint light. Just one possibility.

 

The point is, you have no idea what it was, so to assume it is a ghost or something similar that has only been invented by the human mind is just silly. Start with the most reasonable possibilities before speculating about the paranormal, and eliminate every possibility conclusively before you leap to wild conclusions.

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I was looking for some logical explanations on what the fog in the photo could be.

 

How stupid of me not to forsee this would degenerate into another philisophical vs science discussion.

 

I like the ideas of fog from his mouth and a problem with the lens that may have only shown up under certain conditions, but surelly the odds are there were some similar photos and not just that one?

 

NH I really like your personal accounts, I want to hear more :)

 

I also agree the skeptics are thrown off by the woo woo of it all. Nowadays we have scientific explanations of things that were mysteries ages ago. It is not too hard to imagine this will keep happening.

 

I've read about instances where totally random people (eg, different tenants, or hotel customers, etc) all saw and heard exactly the same thing. Blobs of light are one thing, but a childs voice crying from an empty cuboard in an otherwise empty house, at the same time every night? None of those theories can explain that.

 

The problem is people ignorantly trying to explain things, wether they say its a ghost or an already prooved phenomena.

 

If you're going to try and prove something, at least have the decency to totally analyse all the information at hand, and not making yourself look like a dick by only focusing on one or two elements and blatantly ignoring the rest.

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The problem is people ignorantly trying to explain things, wether they say its a ghost or an already prooved phenomena.

 

If you're going to try and prove something, at least have the decency to totally analyse all the information at hand, and not making yourself look like a dick by only focusing on one or two elements and blatantly ignoring the rest.

 

 

Like I said, without a detailed forensic examination of the scene, you cannot draw any conclusion from the limited information contained in the anecdote. Sure you can specualte, and I outlined a few paths of speculation, but it is just speculation based on an anecdote. It means nothing, and neither does speculating that the blue glow was a ghost or a premonition or anything paranormal.

 

It might well be a totally new phenomena that has never before been described, but is nevertheless entirely consistent with our current understanding of how th universe works, and has nothing to do with spirits or ghosts or boogeymen or Flying Spaghetti Monsters.

 

And as Carl Sagan put it "the plural of anecdote is not data". Just because lots of people have fanciful stories, does not mean they are true. It doesn't mean they aren't, but you need to have a cold hard look at some unbiased data to get an accurate picture of what is going on.

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NH: seeing a mysterious light that is difficult to explain is no reason to jump to the conclusion that it was a ghost or a spirit or the undead coming to end the world.

 

Why are people so hung up on the term ghost? It doesn't really matter what we call it. From here out, I'm going to call it..."Some crazy ass glowing shit". So, the crazy ass glowing shit was not being obscured by anything. Check out the diagram, there was a closet wall behind the head board on the bed.

 

Now, everyone seems to be imaging that the crazy ass glowing shit came back..."immediately" after my mom put her hand down but that's not what happened. She would reach up for the light and just as she was about to turn it on, it would shrink just like the pupil in your eye. Then when she put her arm down, it would slowly return. If you had seen this happen, you would likely be shitting your pants.

 

Instead of trying to figure out 'how' it must have happened..just trust me when I say it DID happen. I've been through it all. I tried to reproduce it years later because it still baffles me to this day. Don't get hung up on the term 'ghost', our understanding of what some of these strange occurences are is so limited that we have to be pretty vague about it.

 

Coming soon...time loop story.

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I wasn't aiming that passage of text at you personally Obscurus - only the people who ignored key details when giving their not-well-thought-out explanations, such as the part about his mum also being there and seeing exactly the same thing.

 

Also I will refer to my photo as "some crazy ass foggy shit". I only ever mentioned ghosts for a bit of sensationalisation :)

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I like the ideas of fog from his mouth and a problem with the lens that may have only shown up under certain conditions, but surelly the odds are there were some similar photos and not just that one?

 

Not neccessarily. If there is a tiny bad spot in the lens that refracts the light in the wrong way, you may only notice this under very special circumstances. It's similar with computerprograms. There are bugs that appear only under very special conditions like once a month if the position of the mousecursor is on 1,1 the minute digit of the time of day is 3 and the user only has 380Kb of system memory left. Something like that, you get the idea. You won't see such bugs very often because of the nature of them.

 

None of those theories can explain that.

 

Nobody can explain how the eye developed over time with only accumulating tiny improvements. Nobody can explain how something as complex as the human brain can organize itself and create a mind. The human body is not designed to be accelerated beyond 40km/h. Humans can not fly. etc., etc.

 

We have all heard this before.

 

If you're going to try and prove something, at least have the decency to totally analyse all the information at hand, and not making yourself look like a dick by only focusing on one or two elements and blatantly ignoring the rest.

 

If all the information you get is an age old story from sombody not doing proper methodic testing at the time it occured, then everything is speculation.

Still I'm always surprised when I watch documentaries like "Medical Detectives" or similar, where forensic analysis is able to solve a crime that has been done 15 years ago and where not enough evidence was found, so that nobody would expect this to be solved 15 years later.


Gerhard

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it wouldnt skrink, itd get shadowed.

 

Well. What happens with the surface area of light that get's shadowed? The total surface would *GASP* shrinking, according to the part that is shadowed by it. Now depending on how this exactly happens, it can APPEAR to you that it is shrinking in such a way that you think it is impossible. I often played with light that way when I found a strange shadow and I wondered where the light or shadow was coming from, and you can see a lot of "unexplainable" effects until you really start to find out where the light is coming from and how the shadow is being created.


Gerhard

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I wasn't aiming that passage of text at you personally Obscurus - only the people who ignored key details when giving their not-well-thought-out explanations, such as the part about his mum also being there and seeing exactly the same thing.

 

I am not sure if you were referring to my post or not, but if you are, it was not meant to be an explanation, just an example of a logical error that forms one of many holes in common arguments about the paranormal (not specifically this one).

 

The fact is that it is impossible to accurately state "we both saw exactly the same thing" unless the experiences were recorded independently. Key details do not override logical mistakes (unless the missing key detail was the fact that they did record their experiences independently).

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As far as this or any experience, among all who can lay out a possible cause, those who experience it are usually the most qualified, and all are just speculation.

 

That is absolutely incorrect. Personal experience is not authoritative as far as explaining the phenomenon goes, because human perception and memory is subjective and easily led astray. The only authority that comes from experience is that fact that you believe you had the experience, not that the experience had any particular cause or even that it was as you remember.

 

What is SQA by the way?

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