Not A Ttlg Slagging Thread...but I Just Have To Say Something.

[Fingernail]

Yeah, the only question is what are you going to do?

 

Boycott TTLG? Interestingly enough, plenty of people like it the way it is. I hear it's the largest Thief fan community forum on the internet, believe it or not.

 

But your grievances come from holding it to a higher moral standard to which it has no pretence. And certaintly some people in this thread refuse to understand those rules and what they mean.

[oDDity]

Largest Thief fan forum on the internet?

Exactly how many Thief community forums are there on the internet?

Not many, so being the biggest one is a worthless claim.

Aside fom that, Thief is a dead franchise, and I'm happy about that, I don't want to be playing Thief 12 when I'm 50. They should have left it at 2.

A bunch of weirdos sitting around talking endlessly about an ancient computer game is pretty embarassing.

WHen TDM is released, there will be no reason to have a Thief forum at all. I dont' know who'd still be making FMs in that prehistoric and entiely static engine when they can use this one.

[New Horizon]

Surely this explains absolutely everything you all seem to have trouble getting.

 

I have no problem understanding it either Fingernail, that's not the point. The point is showing some human decency. The point is, it did not warrant a permanent ban...that's just ridiculous.

 

But your grievances come from holding it to a higher moral standard to which it has no pretence. And certaintly some people in this thread refuse to understand those rules and what they mean.

 

Well, it's pretty hard to choke down the rules, when by their own admission they flucuate by whim and fancy.

[Fingernail]

that's the point - the rules ARE that they fluctuate by whim and fancy.

[Subjective Effect]

There are clearly going to be cases where admins will be unfair - but that's life. Your boss may not be as nice to you as the next guy but if you have any sense, and a pair, you just take it until it gets too bad or he gets bored/changes his mind.

 

I think that the problem here is Komag broke some of the rules that are likely to get the SITE in trouble - warez and commercial issues. And that would spoil it for everyone.

 

What amazes me is that some people just refuse to see that. sparhawk in that other thread (lol you is admin and I cannot reply) talking about his piracy and so on. It doesn't matter - the simple fact of the matter is that people who put work into FMs were pissed off with Komag receiveing money for CDs/DVDS with their work on them. That is a legitamate gripe whether you, I or anyone itt would have the same issue.

[oDDity]

Another reason why there should be none of the talked about TDM section at TTLG. We don't need those wankers. A larger community will soon build up here once the game is released.

[New Horizon]

that's the point - the rules ARE that they fluctuate by whim and fancy.

 

I know, and that's the problem.

[sparhawk]

that's the point - the rules ARE that they fluctuate by whim and fancy.

 

In this case there are no rules and there is no need to defend this. Either you make up rules and stick to it, or you don't. But if you don't, then there are no rules. Simple as that.

[sparhawk]

What amazes me is that some people just refuse to see that. sparhawk in that other thread (lol you is admin and I cannot reply) talking about his piracy and so on. It doesn't matter - the simple fact of the matter is that people who put work into FMs were pissed off with Komag receiveing money for CDs/DVDS with their work on them. That is a legitamate gripe whether you, I or anyone itt would have the same issue.

 

That gripe is not really legitimate. First of all, if somebody doesn't like it, then Komag removes them. If all authors would tell Komag to remove his personall FMs, there wouldn't be any discs anymore, because they would be empty. Secondly, you can download the files free of chrage from his site. So it's not as if he requires you to pay a fee and rip off the work of the work of all the authors. Thirdly, me and my wife has done a lot of selling on ebay and I also sold discs several years ago. And from this experience I know that it is not really fun or even worth the money. Sometimes the discs are broken or get lost on the shipping, or there is not enough money included to ship it back (just enough but not the full price) and what do you do in these cases? Then you have to keep up to date with the proceedings, which also takes a lot of time. Personally I find this more a chore then a way to earning money, because there are certainly better ways to make profit, then the ocassional selling of an FM disc. On Ebay our profits were certainly higher then selling a few FMs, but it was still enough work and hassle, and even legal trouble, when customers thought they payed to much or didn't get what they expected because they didn't bother to read properly, so we stopped it. Unless you are a professional shopowner it's mostly not worth the time to make this on a regular basis, and I doubt that Komag really made THAT much profit from this. but the major point is - if you don't like to pay for the service, just download it for yourself and pay no fee at all.

[sparhawk]

Another reason why there should be none of the talked about TDM section at TTLG. We don't need those wankers. A larger community will soon build up here once the game is released.

 

I think you may be right on that. We will see.

[Arumakani]

Good thing I downloaded and didn't pay for his Thief DS editor tutorial

[Fingernail]

In this case there are no rules and there is no need to defend this. Either you make up rules and stick to it, or you don't. But if you don't, then there are no rules. Simple as that.

 

Think of it this way - the "rules" are actually described as "guidelines" and therefore serve to give you a flavour of what is expected. But they also clearly state that they are dynamic and that they depend on circumstances. You're right - there are no hard and fast "rules". But they don't pretend that there are. There are of course some rules that will always be punished - porn, huge images, posting useless threads (outside of commchat), trolling, whatever, but there are lots of grey areas and the guidelines themselves acknowledge this.

[Schatten]

This has evolved into one of the most idiotic threads I've ever seen.

• If I visit someone's house, I know there are certain rules of etiquette like: Don't puke on the carpet.
   
  
• If it's a friend's house and I puke on his carpet because we were having a party and I overdid it again, he might say "clean up" and forget about it.
   
  
• If it's the house of a friend's friend, and the lego between me and the host doesn't click for some reason, I'll try and be polite and maybe not join the next party. It can also happen that I spilled a drink in the kitchen, which is a perfect excuse for the host to throw me out. It's his house after all - even if it pisses off our mutual friend.
  

Stuff like that happens all the time. Just because it happens on the internet too doesn't make it a drama of shakespearian proportions.

[sparhawk]

It's not really the same, because an internet forum is a public area, while your friends house is not.

[Schatten]

The way I see it, a forum owner invites the public into some private space. It's not like a pub in which I pay for drinks and service.

[sparhawk]

That's wrong. Of course you can see it any way you want, but legaly a public place is where anybody can join. If you make a birthday party on your private ground, but you allow anybody in, even if you don't even know it, it becomes a public event, even though it is still on your private ground. In this case you also must start to pay fees for the music and in extreme cases might even have to add additional safetymeasures. Of course if it is just your birthday party and it starts to grow out of proportion, the timespan might still be to short to get the authorities to notice it. But if something happens, you might be in for a surprise.

Since the TTLG forum is not a collection of people who know each other personally and gave only invitations to such people it is a public forum. It doesn't matter wether it is founded by some private people.

[Schatten]

Sparhawk, you know at what I'm getting at here, we're not talking about my latest garden party. Not anybody can join, only those who accept that an administrator may override any of the rules. Saying this makes rules obsolete is invalid too, because humans don't interact in discrete states.

 

I say my example is still valid.

[Domarius]

Some people get treated lightly, and some people getting treated harshly, at random. We expect this.

 

But this is Komag, we all know what he's done for the Thief community. You'd expect that to run through someone's mind before they switched over to randomly harsh.

 

I suppose there is bad blood between him and the mods that I'm not aware of. But it still seems ridiculous to me.

 

It's a matter of common sense and human decency, not rules.

 

 

Well I'm not going to debate my opinion with anyone. I can see Fing is trying his damndest to avoid widening the rift with his stance on the issue, and I can respect that. I feel the rift will happen anyway, but at least we can say we didn't go out of our way to create it by making public threads like this one extremely popular.

[Gildoran]

I completely agree with Schatten. The TTLG forums are their private property.

 

While I think the mods "should" treat people fairly (and I'll likely start avoiding TTLG as a result of recent events), they have the right not to do so. And you have the right complain about it, but not necessarily the right to complain about it in their forum.

[Domarius]

...leaving the DarkMod the only logical place to do so. Which will widen the rift.

[New Horizon]

Ahhh, it's fun to see how things disintigrate into a complete slagfest. My initial post was meant to set a different tone than this. This has just turned into a black and white...mods vs. posters thread. If people are just going to say mean things about the mods at TTLG, then there is no point in continuing the thread.

 

I don't dislike or hate any of the mods on TTLG, they're all pretty damn cool guys. I do disagree with some of their moderating practices and I think they could do far better if they weren't so inconsistent.

 

Hopefully the forums here will be a more pleasant experience.

[Domarius]

On the other hand, let's not turn THESE forums into some denizen of the TTLG banned, just because they're smaller and more lenient.

It's kinda happening already isn't it?

[sparhawk]

I guess there is no helping about it wether we like it or not. Since TDM is hopefully the future, people will turn here regardless if TDM is successfull.

[Subjective Effect]

That gripe is not really legitimate... Thirdly, me and my wife has done a lot of selling on ebay and I also sold discs several years ago. And from this experience I know that it is not really fun or even worth the money.

Yes it is. Do all the authors know about Komags practices? No. And who cares about your ebaying? It's go nothing to do with this.

 

Regardless - everyone has failed to address the main point:

I think that the problem here is Komag broke some of the rules that are likely to get the SITE in trouble - warez and commercial issues. And that would spoil it for everyone.

They are very strict about this kind of stuff because the site is visited by and has very good contacts with developers.

 

But by all means continue to be pigheaded and ignore me. That's just what you did with the double posting sparhawk and you know exactly why it is discouraged.

[Fingernail]