Not A Ttlg Slagging Thread...but I Just Have To Say Something.

[sparhawk]

I'm impressed with your astoninishing skills with photshop. Apparently there are not more then this, otherwise you might have contributed something to the mod every now and then.

[Fingernail]

I'm going to stop pushing your buttons because clearly your mood has worsened since this happened: http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1488121

[Subjective Effect]

Lol.

 

sparhawk on a mission.

 

I wish you would just get over it.

[New Horizon]

Spar, I really don't care what you say on our forums, but for the sake of the mod...could you not alienate the people at TTLG? It certainly doesn't help us if you hijack a thread and piss off the very people that we would like to eventually come help us. As a senior member, I would expect you to handle yourself more fittingly. It wouldn't have been so bad if you had just made your point in a single post, but instead you continued to prattle on and derail the entire mood of the thread. Quite frankly, It's an embarrassment.

 

This thread on our own soil was more than adequate for any venting we wanted to do and it was far more respectable. There is no need for any of us to be logging into TTLG and tossing bricks at them. You don't agree with the moderating choices...well, neither do I sometimes...but don't don't go destroying any potential good that might have been done through our work, our updates and the trailers.

[sparhawk]

This has nothing to do with TDM and just because I happen to be on this mod, doesn't mean that each and every posting on other forums are related to TDM. The only one who had to drag TDM into it was Sneaksie for god knows what reason.

[Renzatic]

A few things you need to keep in mind, Spar.

 

A. You really only started posting regularly on TTLG once you joined the mod.

B. 99% of your posts on TTLG have been Darkmod related.

C. For all intents and purposes you are the backbone of the mod, and people see you as such.

 

Considering that, like it or not, anything you say and do at TTLG reflects directly on the mod. Even if you go out of your way to make a post that doesn't pertain in any way to the mod, you're still associated with it regardless of what you do.

 

It's like the CEO of a Fortune 500 company going downtown to roll old ladies in dark alleyways. He might mug chicks as a hobby, completely seperate from what he does at work. But once he's caught and word of it gets to the press, his actions are gonna be reflected upon his company.

[modetwo]

That was an interesting example...

[SneaksieDave]

god knows what reason

You're still missing the point I guess; I already answered that in the thread in question. I was trying distance your behaviors from the mod, not connect them to it.

 

But what's this 'backbone' thing based on?

[Arumakani]

Guys don't let this get out of hand. A point of view was put across causing some folk to go on the defensive. That's it.

[Renzatic]

But what's this 'backbone' thing based on?

 

It's his organizational skills and general poking and proding that have brought the mod from a collection of happy-go-lucky bastards to the lean mean machine we've got today. And since we've complimented him for it over at TTLG before, I'm sure people there see him as being one of the team heads.

[sparhawk]

Well, I guess I will not post much on TTLG anymore anyway.

[demagogue]

It's funny that so much drama recently has to be centered on the Editor's Guild.

Man, drama and TEG go together like lapdances at Star Trek conventions.

 

At least there needs to be a better outlet for airing these sorts of issues than there of all places.

 

(edit: started my post before spar posted, so didn't see it. Yeah, I guess you sort of laid your cards on the table, didn't you? Oh well...)

Edited August 8, 2006 by demagogue

[sparhawk]

I find it more frustrating that such arbitrarity and injustice is brushed off with some comment like "You don't need to be here if you don't like it" I know that I wont change anything with my postings, but this is the same attitude that allows politicians to do whatever they like. And people brush it off with similar comments just accepting it.

[Vadrosaul]

I find it more frustrating that such arbitrarity and injustice is brushed off with some comment like "You don't need to be here if you don't like it" I know that I wont change anything with my postings, but this is the same attitude that allows politicians to do whatever they like. And people brush it off with similar comments just accepting it.

That's a terrible analogy. Your government rules a club you have to be a part of. You do not have to be a part of TTLG. They are their own government, and unfortunately it's a dictatorship. A dictatorship that tries to be democratic as much as possible, but still a dictatorship.

[sparhawk]

Why do you have to be part of? You can also go into another rcountry. Unless you are in certain countries you can choose to go somewhere else.

[Darkness_Falls]

I hate to say it, but I kinda agree w/ what Sparhawk was trying to say in that thread. I don't agree with all the arguing that took place, though.

 

Set the semantics of the term warez aside. From an objective standpoint, I think the main point is that it doesn't seem fair for Komag to be banned virtually immediately upon one mess-up, while MysteryDev & Digi can distribute two, maybe three arguably copyrighted things without incident:

 

1. The complete Thief: Deadly Shadows soundtrack.

2. The T2G work-in-progress levels.

3. The 3DS files.

 

Don't their posts walk all over the TTLG forum rules?

 

No Warez, Illegal Software or Scans of Copyrighted Material.

This includes linking to, posting about, requesting, and suggesting ways of obtaining illegal software and/or other copyrighted materials such as scans of magazine articles. Posting such information may also result in your posting privileges being revoked. Furthermore, we will not tolerate postings that encourage people to violate copy protection by referring them to sites that have copy protection codes publicized (including No-CD Cracks) and/or illegal software. Any such post will be removed from our forums and your membership and posting privileges will be revoked as soon as we find the offensive post.

 

I have no personal vendetta against TTLG at all. I actually like the site a lot. I just don't like to see it when admin powers get abused; that's all. I like consistency and predictability when it comes to rules. If they are going to heavy-handedly enforce one rule, I wish for them to enforce them all in a similar manner. Including the rule I mentioned earlier where: "you will not ... post ... abusive, hateful, harassing ... threatening. Hate speech is not tolerated. We will not tolerate abuse upon another member." It would probably be a kinder place there if they stuck by their own rules. As it is now, you can go to a lot of threads and see the harrassment and abuse that goes on.

 

Okay, objectivity and hippy, peace-loving thoughts aside: MysteryDev and DigitalNightfall are awesome for keeping Thief alive!

[Darkness_Falls]

Image of Sparhawk deletion.

 

*sigh* ... that wasn't very nice

[sparhawk]

I have no personal vendetta against TTLG at all. I actually like the site a lot. I just don't like to see it when admin powers get abused; that's all. I like consistency and predictability when it comes to rules. If they are going to heavy-handedly enforce one rule, I wish for them to enforce them all in a similar manner. Including the rule I mentioned earlier where: "you will not ... post ... abusive, hateful, harassing ... threatening. Hate speech is not tolerated. We will not tolerate abuse upon another member." It would probably be a kinder place there if they stuck by their own rules. As it is now, you can go to a lot of threads and see the harrassment and abuse that goes on.

 

It was exactly the point of the thread to get this across. Thanks.

[Renzatic]

It's really about...hell, how can I explain this...

 

Everything that's been offered up to Digi for distribution on TTLG has been given to them an ex-LGS/ISA staffer. Does it make it legal? If you want to go for the absolute anal-retentive definition then no, it's not legal simply because they don't have permission from the copywrite holder. But it's stuff Eidos won't get their panties in a bunch over, and it's been given to them as a gift from the old devs. It doesn't put it into the white as far as legality is concerned, but it's...I dunno...more justifiable in a way.

 

What Komag did was offer up a 3rd party program that neither LGS/ISA or Eidos have direct control over. Yeah, you could argue that it's an ass old version you can't find anymore, and he only had good intentions in mind when he offered it. But because it's a program that didn't arise directly from any of the aforementioned companies, and wasn't offered in a sort of "here you go, we'll look the other way" type situation, it's possible that in some roundabout way TTLG could get in a bit of trouble simply because they didn't slap down Komag's attempts to distribute Max 5.1 when they had the chance.

 

The differences aren't legal, they're semantic. But it's enough to explain why Dave and GBM won't ban Digi for distributing warez like they did with Komag.

[sparhawk]

The differences are - Digi is a buddy. Komag is not. It's as simple as that.

[Renzatic]

That's the overly negative "the world's out to get me" way of looking at it.

 

I've been posting on and off at TTLG for about 3-4 years now, and this is the first time I've ever seen what could be considered an overly biased banning. Though I do think Komag's punishment far exceeded his crime, he did push a few buttons and brought alot of unwanted attention on himself along the way.

 

It's not this whole David vs. Goliath thing you're making it out to be. It's just an clusterfuck bullshit stupid...thing with a whole bunch of hurt feelings and misinterpretations on both sides. In short, it's INTERNET MESSAGEBOARD DRAMA!

[Dram]

In short, it's INTERNET MESSAGEBOARD DRAMA!

 

You said Dram! oh forget it...

[bob_arctor]

"If he has a bad day because his girlfirend didn't let him mount

 

 

<spits drink over keyboard>"

 

You guys are priceless.

[Macsen]

It's their forum so they can do what they want. The admins don't have a responsibility to their 'guests', they're only in it to boost their own egos after all.

 

But personally I'm glad TTLG is going down the drain - it's about time the Thief community 'shed its skin'. A few people in a small clique have had a monopoly on the thief fan community for too long. It's telling that the more creative 'outside' projects like the Dark Mod don't even get a forum there - the admins are only interested in the projects they and their chums are making. As a consequence some projects have been parched of fan community interest and have withered on the vine (Hammerite Imperium, for example). TTLG did its job, but now it's time for the old guard to move over.

[oDDity]

I agree with that. They still think themselves as a superior, intelectual forum because they don't allow avatars. They're only for leet doodz on warez forums apparently.

I've seen most of the topics in Gen Chat, and there are more intelligent discussions in warez forums.