How The Chinese Do It

[Order of the Hammer Bureaucrat]

http://www.protv.ro/filme/exclusive-footag...grims.html#4265

a romanian cameraman at a climbing expedition in nepal witnesses chinese soldiers hunting tibetan pilgrims.

[OrbWeaver]

"Tasteless" is an interesting way of putting it.

[Crispy]

I'd go with "immoral" and "I'm pretty sure that's illegal even in China". For starters.

[oDDity]

Let's face it, anyone who'd sign up to a job with the description of 'join us, we'll give you a big gun and you might get to shoot some people' are exactly the sort of men you'd expect to being doing things like this. I dont' get surprised at all when I hear stories of soldiers abusing people in Iraq etc.

[OrbWeaver]

I dont' get surprised at all when I hear stories of soldiers abusing people in Iraq etc.

 

Exactly. Take a load of macho men with large balls and small brains, give them deadly weapons, send them into a foreign country, kill a few of their mates and then act shocked when they start mistreating civilians (particular when you add a bit of racism into the equation).

[Crispy]

Indeed. Especially given the conditioning that armies put their soldiers through.

[sophisticatedZombie]

One of the criminal cases involving US forces in Iraq involves a guy that is basically a classic sociopath. His fellow soldiers complained about him and he got discharged, but not before he managed to murder civilians.

 

You would think that with the billions spent on ridiculous projects in defense, some basic psychological screening could be set up. I guess it shows where the priorities are. Ambassadors of democracy.

[AluminumHaste]

If you screen out all the sociopaths, there would be no one left for the armies lol.

But this situation is total bullshit!!! I have a strong dislike for weapons in real life and dislike anyone who uses them to kill unarmed civilians or even armed civilians just walking.

 

EDIT: just incase you were looking for a definition;

People with this disorder may exhibit criminal behavior. They may

not work. If they do work, they are frequently absent or may quit

suddenly. They do not consider other people's wishes, welfare or

rights. They can be manipulative and may lie to gain personal

pleasure or profit. They may default on loans, fail to provide child

support, or fail to care for their dependents adequately. High risk

sexual behavior and substance abuse are common. Impulsiveness,

failure to plan ahead, aggressiveness, irritability, irresponsibility,

and a reckless disregard for their own safety and the safety of

others are traits of the antisocial personality.

[SneaksieDave]

And if they're not outright killing, they'll just oppress civilians and, oh, maybe run their car over with a tank for fun.

 

I don't know what the fuck is wrong with people. Think about what kind of people those border guards or whatever they are must be. Do they think about the fact that they're picking off fellow human beings? Do they even consider it, or just pull the trigger and move on? What the hell size brain does a person like that have? There is a use for extermination within the human race, but it's backwards in this video.

 

Yeah, those Tibetan Buddhists are a real threat. Better get rid of 'em, before their message of hatred and war gets out.

[OrbWeaver]

I don't know what the fuck is wrong with people. Think about what kind of people those border guards or whatever they are must be. Do they think about the fact that they're picking off fellow human beings?

 

http://www.prisonexp.org/

 

It doesn't take much to convince somebody - anybody - that another person is not a "fellow human being".

[Vadrosaul]

All this, and they furrow their brows wondering how and why terrorism is being fostered further

[sparhawk]

And if they're not outright killing, they'll just oppress civilians and, oh, maybe run their car over with a tank for fun.

 

"My dick is longer than yours."

[AluminumHaste]

And if they're not outright killing, they'll just oppress civilians and, oh, maybe run their car over with a tank for fun.

 

Or maybe because they caught them looting?? I hate looters, everyone remembers the looters during Katrina taking beer and cigarettes. Dicks, go help your fellow man instead of stealing for yourself. You wanna steal wood to rebuild?? How about you stop blowing up the American contracters who come over to rebuild schools and other buildings for free.

I know it's not the civilians (non-radicals) who are blowing shit up, but still; Let them rebuild enough to get out of there, then this shit can end. (or get worse for the iraqis)

[OrbWeaver]

Or maybe because they caught them looting?? I hate looters, everyone remembers the looters during Katrina taking beer and cigarettes. Dicks, go help your fellow man instead of stealing for yourself. You wanna steal wood to rebuild??

 

Yeah, those bits of 2-by-4 looked really valuable. It's not like the wood belonged to the Americans anyway.

 

How about you stop blowing up the American contracters who come over to rebuild schools and other buildings for free.

 

Huh? They go to rebuild Iraq in return for vast sums of money from their cronies in the Bush admin. If the USA is so concerned about the infrastructure, why did they destroy it in the first place?

[SneaksieDave]

Or maybe because they caught them looting??

Oh, I see. So if these civilians had been looting (kinda the way the tibetan buddhists "resisted" the chinese border guards...), in their own country, not ours, then it's okay for our moron childish brainwashed shouldn't-be-trusted-with-a-butterknife-let-alone-a-tank troops to make a judgement on the spot and act as our ambassadors, by making a spectacle like this, broadcasted for the world to see. Real smart. Many of them barely made it through high school (thus the military choice), but they should be trusted with global operations like this? The world hates the US enough; we don't need dickheads like this making it worse. They should be courtmartialed.

[SneaksieDave]

http://www.prisonexp.org/

Reading it now.. I think I've seen this before. One of those things where they show they could turn regular people into abusive guards, right? I still don't completely buy that notion for just anyone. I think if a person has compassion toward others inside them, they always will. And those who change like that are weak minded. It brings to mind that shock experiment, where they made people ask questions to an unseen stranger, and shock them progressively worse when wrong. At some point they got to where the shocked were screaming in pain, and some people kept shocking - even when the screaming stopped. Sick people, in my opinion. If you find out you're doing that to someone, and you're decent and have compassion in you, AND a brain you actually USE for yourself and don't just do whatever someone else tells you to do, you'll stop.

 

And those who don't belong in the military, apparently.

 

Edit: Chripes, after reading it, it seems the majority of us are weak minded. How pleasant. Out of >50 visitors to the fake prison, only one (a woman) protested the conditions. The majority of guards were disappointed that the experiment ended early.

 

I still say though, someone with compassion would simply not even fit in there. You can't take a caring person (well, at least not ALL caring persons) and give them a gun and put them on a battlefield and tell them to start killing. It may work for most, but definitely not all.

 

"Most?" Yikes.

[Order of the Hammer Bureaucrat]

EDIT: just incase you were looking for a definition;

People with this disorder may exhibit criminal behavior. They may

not work. If they do work, they are frequently absent or may quit

suddenly. They do not consider other people's wishes, welfare or

rights. They can be manipulative and may lie to gain personal

pleasure or profit. They may default on loans, fail to provide child

support, or fail to care for their dependents adequately. High risk

sexual behavior and substance abuse are common. Impulsiveness,

failure to plan ahead, aggressiveness, irritability, irresponsibility,

and a reckless disregard for their own safety and the safety of

others are traits of the antisocial personality.

 

I truly pity people with the above definition. I sure wish they aren't punished too harshly by society for what they are but given a chance to change. Those soldiers who tanked over a motorcar, maybe it's not their fault, maybe they just had a deficiency of iodine and thiamine because their mothers were poor and uneducated.

[Order of the Hammer Bureaucrat]

Just finished reading prisonexp. Sure took a chunk of my day. I've seen this briefly mentioned elsewhere before. I think it's really nice that no forced labour was involved. If I was in a position of spending time in prison I would most fear forced labour. They work you until you're dead tired then they shoot you. Or you work for decades at the threshold of your health and then collapse.

The only link between personality and prison behavior was a finding that prisoners with a high degree of authoritarianism endured our authoritarian prison environment longer than did other prisoners.

I wonder how authoritarian each of us is compared to an average person. From hearing about lives of people in China and my ancestors in USSR I always think I would either seek non-conventional immoral and illegal (read: exploit the planned economy and socialist ideology) ways to achieve what I believe I deserve (ie a quality of life akin to the western world) without concern of punishment. I wouldn't be too covert and sly about it because that's against my nature, so I guess I wouldn't stay alive for long. \

How could intelligent, mentally healthy, "ordinary" men become perpetrators of evil so quickly? These were questions we were forced to ask.

How do people become soldiers in the army?

By the end of the study, the prisoners were disintegrated, both as a group and as individuals. There was no longer any group unity; just a bunch of isolated individuals hanging on, much like prisoners of war or hospitalized mental patients.

I find that a stressful environment like MedSci or some engineering faculties similarly affect people in two ways: some people gradually bond and develop camaraderie with an increase of stress where a lower level of stress had them be independent and stressed, while other people disintegrate and become isolated individuals whereas at a lower level of stress they were social outgoing people. In any way this shows it's a good way of controlling populations when you want massive low-quality labour involving no intelligence or creativity. 1984.

When the psych. student was corresponding with the real inmate:

I know that thieves must be punished, and I don't justify stealing even though I am a thief myself.

Time to go to cragscleft.

A great many guards and prisoners were killed and injured by that ill-advised decision.

along with the racialization of arrests and sentencing, with African-Americans and Hispanics overrepresented.

I keep seeing messages of this wording and I can never understand is it good or bad? Is it somehow a fault of non-African-Americans and non-Hispanics that they're overrepresented?

[AluminumHaste]

LOL you guys totally took what I said the wrong way. The guy in the video saw them stealing, (yes he was a dick about it and went too far trying to be cool or whatever) he stopped them to tell that they don't allow looting even in times of war (I guess), they didn't understand. So instead of getting a translater they decided to make their point by destroying their car, (which probably caused them to become jihadists).

It was stupid and over the top, but I do agree with the no looting rule. I hate looters period. Unless you are stealing food to feed your starving family (which some people did during Katrina), you don't deserve the right to break the law just because the police aren't around to stop you. (Pathetic)

 

Besides you can't compare stoping someone from looting and crushing their car and shooting people for no reason. Yes the troops were stupid and macho and idiotic to do that, but they didn't kill the iraqis either.

If your commanding officer tells you to maintain the law and peace in your area (read; no looting, killing, stealing etc etc) then you follow those rules. To bad the soldiers weren't told that crushing a car with a tank to punish looters was stupid and would not work as a point to be taken.

 

I don't condone what the americans did, but it wasn't "for no reason". What the iraqis probably would have done, had the soldiers just taken their wood and told them to be on their way, is t simply stolen more once the soldiers left. They aren't arresting the civilians, they aren't impounding their car, they can't stop them from doing anything, so they did something even dumber; they destroyed the car so the most they could steal would be what they could carry to their homes.

 

And what I meant for free was that it's free for Iraq not the contracters. They are making fortunes to build in an incredibly dangerous area. How many contracters have been beheaded now on tv??

 

Point is; US soldiers in that video acted like teenagers with a tank. It is their fault wether they are sociopaths or not. Most (bad) sociopaths wind up in prison so it is no excuse.

[OrbWeaver]

And what I meant for free was that it's free for Iraq not the contracters.

 

It's only free for the Iraqis if you ignore the fact that the country was just destroyed by the very people who are "generously" volunteering to rebuild it. It's like murdering somebody's family and then expecting gratitude because you generously paid for the funeral expenses.

[AluminumHaste]

It's only free for the Iraqis if you ignore the fact that the country was just destroyed by the very people who are "generously" volunteering to rebuild it. It's like murdering somebody's family and then expecting gratitude because you generously paid for the funeral expenses.

 

Who said anything about gratitude?? Just stop hampering the rebuilding efforts so that the Americans can get out as soon as possible.

EDIT: And nobody is "volunteering" to rebuild Iraq, they are getting paid quite well.

 

I agree it was stupid to go there anyways, and Bush is an idiot as we all know, for going there.

[Dram]

Who said anything about gratitude?? Just stop hampering the rebuilding efforts so that the Americans can get out as soon as possible.

EDIT: And nobody is "volunteering" to rebuild Iraq, they are getting paid quite well.

 

I agree it was stupid to go there anyways, and Bush is an idiot as we all know, for going there.

 

Let's turn this around and think about it this way:

 

Iraq invades the US (let's just say they had the power for it, whatever it's just a scenario). They kindly pop street by street, killing lots of people, including civillians, and then once they have control of it, they start changing your wonderful capitalist lifestyle to that of communism (just an example). So now you're being relatively fucked up the ass by the Iraqis and your life will never be the same again, not even remotely. So, you hear about this revolution party which is trying to fuck over the Iraqis back for fucking over the US, sounds incredibly appealing does'nt it? It's just human nature, so just keep in mind that the Iraqi "Terrorists" are (or at least were) at one point human, just like you.

 

I am sick to shit hearing this blind attitude of "they should fuck off and let us finish the job" when you yourself would HATE this kind of a thing happening to you.

 

Sorry if I sound offensive but it was'nt aimed only at you, I was just trying to make you think about the situation from their point of view

[Order of the Hammer Bureaucrat]

Anybody ever played Freedom Fighters? I played it this summer: watched the intro and played the first 2 minutes until he gets wounded. Aside, regarding countries invading USA, I thought N.Korea is much more of a threat than it really is, or the media overpresents it. Turns out they can't even launch their own nukes. Nothing compared to the hundreds of intercontinentals the soviets had.

[Ishtvan]

I don't think anyone is worried that NK will actually win a war with the US. The threat is if they get off even one nuke attack, or if they manage to drag the US into a war with China, which hopefully won't happen because China is not that crazy.

[OrbWeaver]

It's all a game anyway.