Noisemaker Concepts

[Springheel]

Just to get this out in the open, house guards should be MUCH more likely to spend time sniffing around a noise arrow than other guards, and perhaps elite ones actually DO start looking for where it came to after a few seconds pause.

 

Given our stim-response system, different AI can react in different ways.

[BlackThief]

Just to get this out in the open, house guards should be MUCH more likely to spend time sniffing around a noise arrow than other guards, and perhaps elite ones actually DO start looking for where it came to after a few seconds pause.

 

Given our stim-response system, different AI can react in different ways.

yeah - I love the idea that elite guards aren't distracted by noisemakers.

Just imagine a situation:

"Hah, you damn bastard thought you can distract me with your little toys ? Come out you taffer ! I'll find ya "

Edited January 7, 2005 by BlackThief

[New Horizon]

Anyway IMHO the shattering glass is the best option - it's easy for us to create it and it will look good ingame and it makes perfect sense. shattering glass in the night is loud, but not as load as fireworks - a firework would attract guard from the other end of the mansion - and that's certainly not what our thief is looking forward to....

It's also a good attempt to keep a common theme amongst the arrows. It's sudden and jarring.

[sparhawk]

It's also a good attempt to keep a common theme amongst the arrows. It's sudden and jarring.

Well a shattering glass sound could work. And it might even be a good explanation why the guard will be distracted for some time. After all, if you hear shattering glass in a museum at night, the guard WILL have to investigate.

 

But what about dungeons or caves? The T2 noisemaker is versatile, because it doesn't rely on an environment.

[BlackThief]

But what about dungeons or caves? The T2 noisemaker is versatile, because it doesn't rely on an environment.

why shouldn't a zombie, who is dumb as a T-bone steak anyway be distracted by a shattering glass sound ?

[sparhawk]

why shouldn't a zombie, who is dumb as a T-bone steak anyway be distracted by a shattering glass sound ?

Wouldn't it be strange to hear shattering glass when you are in an underground cave? Well. It would be strange enough to investigate I guess.

[god_is_my_goldfish]

Well in that case wouldn't it make more sense to have the loud crack of shattering wood? It would work in pretty much any environment.

[oDDity]

THere is no kind of projectile you could use to distract a guard at 3am in a museum that would not be suspicious.

IT doesn't matter what the nosie is, it's the fact that the projectile would be lying there at the source.

This is why the best solution is the simplest - use whatever you find in your environment to distract the guards with, by definition it cannot be out of place there.

[Springheel]

Yes, we're going to have that option. But we still need a noise arrow. But since guards don't get suspicious about water arrows, they don't need to get suspicious about noise ones.

[oDDity]

It's not quite the same thing with water arrows. If you use a water arrow on a torch where no guard can hear it, then you can either assume that the thief picks it up again, or it isn't noticed, because the area where the arrow fell is now dark.

IF you put a torch out near a guard, then he should definitely invesigate and act as though he knows someone has just dowsed it on purpose.

With noise arrows, you're deliberately directing the guard towards your arrow, and announcing you are there.

 

We don't actually 'need' noise arrows if we are having an alternate solution. They are not a good idea. It seems the only reason to include them is because they were in the original games. That's not a particularly satisfactory argument.

[god_is_my_goldfish]

Because we are doing this as an editor primarily, it's enough.

[Domarius]

god_is_my_goldfish, and anyone ELSE who decides to quote from memory, should read the Desicions Thread (totally readable, even though its currently pending a re-format). I took the time and effort to summarise the discussions so that the outcome was CLEAR AND CONSICE, even providing a link for each topic to the thread where the discussion occured.

 

Noise arrows are re-usable, or they're worthless.

 

And a wind-up clockwork noisemaker (the kind found in the ORIGINAL T2 game), is the best option, since it's totally reasonable to assume Garrett winds it up again, when he picks it up, or before he fires it. And it would be loud. I don't see the point in changing this concept.

 

And one more thing - sorry, but I find it annoying that people who don't even USE noise arrows at all, let alone as exclusively as I do, think that they can make well-informed statements on how noise arrows should work.

 

Just to get this out in the open, house guards should be MUCH more likely to spend time sniffing around a noise arrow than other guards, and perhaps elite ones actually DO start looking for where it came to after a few seconds pause.

 

Given our stim-response system, different AI can react in different ways.

Good stuff. I like it.

Edited January 8, 2005 by Domarius

[Springheel]

We don't actually 'need' noise arrows if we are having an alternate solution. They are not a good idea. It seems the only reason to include them is because they were in the original games. That's not a particularly satisfactory argument.

 

We've already decided this. We will include both options, so that FM authors that like noise arrows can use them, and those that don't won't have to.

[Kappow]

Ummmm.... I don't know if this is worth bringing up, but are noisemaker arrows even really necessary? Can't a thief just throw a pot or something across the room?

[Springheel]

*heavy sigh*

 

Note post above yours.

 

I think this is posted in at LEAST four different threads now....

[Domarius]

AND THE OUTCOME AND REASONS WHY ARE ALREADY DOCUMENTED!! READ IT, PEOPLE!!

 

 

BTW, in case you missed it, this IS a direct link to the Noise Arrow Outcome post.

 

And here it is again, just in case.

 

I think "The Grand Desicion Thread" is the best kept secret on the entire forum.

 

 

 

This thread is called "Noise Maker Concepts". Any discussion as to the usefulness or workings of the noise arrow should be started in a new thread, AFTER reading this policy first.

 

Back onto Noise Maker Concepts, HOPEFULLY...

 

As much as I appreciate the thought (and illustration time) that has gone into Springheel's ball bearing one, I really think that the original clockwork concept from T2 is great, and doesn't need to be changed.

 

It could be loud, it's re-usable (we can assume it's wound up when retrieved or before firing), and it's beleivable.

 

The only valid question raised against this concept, that I can remember, was by sparhawk, that it wasn't confusing enough to warrant the guards attention for so long. (Ball bearings wouldn't be any different.)

But with the recent idea of elite guards not paying so much attention to them, and the fact they worked so well in T2, I don't see why the concept should be changed.

Edited January 8, 2005 by Domarius

[god_is_my_goldfish]

It was clockwork? All it did was get fired and go waaaoooo waaaoooo. I assumed the arrow was shaped so that it caused sound waves to come off it.

[New Horizon]

Whatever the final verdict is, it's most likely going to be something that will require a mild suspension of our disbelief. If FM authors dislike what we decide on, they can easily change the sound and the model themselves...and no doubt some will.

[Domarius]

It was clockwork? All it did was get fired and go waaaoooo waaaoooo. I assumed the arrow was shaped so that it caused sound waves to come off it.

Don't know what version of Thief you were playing, but in T2, it makes clicking noises and some obviously clockwork wirr-ing noises.

 

The stuff that comes off of it in the air is hardly the thing that makes the AI interested, since it spends most of its time sitting on the ground wirr-ing and clicking, and THAT'S where the AI heads.

 

The circles that come off of it in the air are just some special effects for the player's benifit. If it was sound, it'd give your position away. If it was visible, it'd give your position away even more.

 

Yes, there's going to be some disbeleif, but I still feel this is the most "beleivable" idea.

[Fingernail]

I toldja it was reusable.

[sparhawk]

Don't know what version of Thief you were playing, but in T2, it makes clicking noises and some obviously clockwork wirr-ing noises.

I never noticed that. :lol:

 

I always thought that the circles represented the noise it made and which is what the a Ai is after. I never bothered to retrieve, so I never noticed that they made noise after landing.

[_Atti_]

personally i used broadhead arrows which i shot into metal more than the expensive noisemaker arrows:)

[god_is_my_goldfish]

So before i do any more concepts, just to be clear, it should be clockwork and make clicking and whirring sounds?

[Springheel]

I think that's the way to go. I like Domarius's wind-up idea as a way to make them reusable. So some kind of simple clockwork device, preferably not very big. And put it up the shaft a couple inches, so it isn't directly impacting when it lands. Thanks GIMG.

[Fingernail]

we can makes a funkeh animation of the Thief rewinding it...