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#1 god_is_my_goldfish

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Posted 11 April 2005 - 04:12 PM

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Thius is a very rough draft of an idea for the combat bot. Rather than having them fire from arm cannons, a firing mechanism in the front (i.e. the mouth) makes much more sense.

Also i would like to raise the discussion of what the bots use to attack as well, personally a large supply of cannonballs being fired from a bot seems kind of hokey to me.

I would like to propose a few other forms of projectile attack for these bots.

1. flaming balls, that explode on contact. This would be a form of gas soaked projectile that's set on fire when it's fired.

2. A flamethrower. I kid you not, this would make a good deal of sense for an outside patrolling bot. I had the idea of taking a cherub face (the kind you see spitting water in fountains), putting it on a bot body, and having it spray the fire from it's mouth as it runs after you.

3. Arrows or small spears, these could be held in a much larger quantity in a bot than cannonballs, and could fire much faster than a normal human would be able to shoot them.

Edited by god_is_my_goldfish, 11 April 2005 - 04:14 PM.

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#2 Macsen

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Posted 11 April 2005 - 04:27 PM

I love it! Brings to mind oDDity's 'The Scream'.

Nice to see the magnetic flux steampipes present and correct. :)

#3 oDDity

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Posted 11 April 2005 - 05:02 PM

Yeah, I like the face and the idea of using the mouth as the cannon.
The feet and legs don't look workable though, it couldn't balance and the feet can't bend.
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#4 Subjective Effect

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Posted 11 April 2005 - 05:19 PM

It doesn't have to fire big cannon balls, it could have smaller ones. There are many examples of hand cannons, and I'm not talking rifles either.

The problem with arrows is it would have to have a magazine system and isn't that way more complex than even rifleling a barrel?
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#5 Springheel

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Posted 11 April 2005 - 05:35 PM

We've already had a thread discussing possible attack methods for bots. Problem with fire weapons is that they'd be awfully destructive to the things they are supposed to be guarding.
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#6 Ishtvan

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Posted 11 April 2005 - 05:46 PM

@SE:

I don't think early cannons had rifled barrels, did they?

A simple gravity-driven magazine system for feeding arrows/spears seems pretty intuitive.

[edit: Also, if they are masters of steam plumbing as we say, it's not that much of a jump in logic to divert some of the pressure that goes into firing to a steam-driven reloading mechanism either.]

Edited by Ishtvan, 11 April 2005 - 05:49 PM.


#7 god_is_my_goldfish

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Posted 11 April 2005 - 05:51 PM

We've already had a thread discussing possible attack methods for bots. Problem with fire weapons is that they'd be awfully destructive to the things they are supposed to be guarding.

They would only be used in large open spaces, presumably. You wouldn't find them in tight enclosed spaces. And you have that same problem if you have bots firing cannonballs all over the place indoors as well.
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#8 Springheel

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Posted 11 April 2005 - 06:15 PM

I know, that's why we talked about alternatives to canonballs.

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#9 Macsen

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Posted 11 April 2005 - 06:19 PM

Does it matter if they're destructive? The idea never bothered anyone in T2. From the owner's point of view preventing the theft of all his worldly possessions is probably worth it. And the T2 comabt bots 'wind up and fire' was classic.

#10 Springheel

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Posted 11 April 2005 - 07:07 PM

If I were a noble looking to protect my valuables, I wouldn't purchase a robot that throws grenades around my house.
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#11 god_is_my_goldfish

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Posted 11 April 2005 - 07:09 PM

Well i'm still gonna do up that cherub-flamethrowing-awesome bot sketch, don't even try to stop me ;)
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#12 Macsen

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Posted 11 April 2005 - 07:12 PM

Since this is just a game, does the motivations of the nobility really have to matter? Like I said, no one gave it a second thought until now. If we're going to build these bots around real life, we might as well scrap them completely. The player will have to suspend the old disbelief at some point.

#13 Springheel

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Posted 11 April 2005 - 07:56 PM

Since this is just a game, does the motivations of the nobility really have to matter? Like I said, no one gave it a second thought until now.



Well, I did, and I doubt I'm so insightful that I'm the only one. :)

And since it's just a game, do we need to really have a story that makes sense? Nope. But it's a better experience if we do.

There are all kinds of weapons bots can have without having them throwing grenades around. Crossbow bolts, musket balls, spinning blades, poison darts, etc, all of which would be a little easier on the valuables than exploding cannonballs.

A short-range flamethrower could work for up close attacks.
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#14 Ishtvan

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Posted 11 April 2005 - 08:49 PM

I think cannons still have their place tho. For the outer perimeter bots or whatnot. Or keep the valuables on the upper floors / in a vault, and let the robots patrol the lower floors or everywhere but the vault room.

Don't underestimate the fear of having your ribs shattered and driven into your internal organs by a 10kg ball of iron as an incentive not to steal from someone. :)

#15 Springheel

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Posted 11 April 2005 - 09:10 PM

For some kind of outer primeter defense it would be fine. Perhaps we could have outdoor and indoor bot versions.
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#16 sparhawk

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Posted 12 April 2005 - 02:55 AM

The robot looks cool. But I think it should have some balance in the back. The mouth part looks pretty big, and considering the axle of the feet where the body hinges, I would expect it to tilt on it's face. You could put some storage container in the back, which can explain the amount of ammo it can carry.
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#17 Ishtvan

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Posted 12 April 2005 - 03:41 AM

Also, I can't really tell from the drawing if the "head" part can move side to side to some extent, independently of the legs?

If the head is fixed to the chasse and can't swivel from side to side, I would think this would make aiming the projectile very awkward and inaccurate, since it would have to take steps to rotate the whole body for horizontal aiming. Just a nit-picky thing, but I think the design looks very good overall.

#18 sparhawk

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Posted 12 April 2005 - 04:41 AM

You are right. The head should be mounted on a ball bearing, so that it can rotate in all directions.
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#19 Domarius

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Posted 12 April 2005 - 06:50 AM

Could it look a little less Karras-ish maybe? It's really good, but I would like to see something completely different from T2 if at all possible.

#20 _Atti_

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Posted 12 April 2005 - 09:25 AM

its all nice except the legs which reminds me of some hightech mech ..definately not something that works with steam..

#21 Macsen

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Posted 12 April 2005 - 09:31 AM

And since it's just a game, do we need to really have a story that makes sense? Nope. But it's a better experience if we do.

What does the plot have to do with this? You're confusing two different things.

The robots in T2 were scary because of the cannons. They were brutal, knocking the wind out of you. The fact that it was such overkill, at the hands of a robotic creature which had no motivation other than to knock the crap out of you with great big bombs until you were in bits, made them terrifying. Crossbow bolts just isn't going to do it.

#22 SneaksieDave

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Posted 12 April 2005 - 09:31 AM

1. flaming balls, that explode on contact. This would be a form of gas soaked projectile that's set on fire when it's fired.

2. A flamethrower. I kid you not, this would make a good deal of sense for an outside patrolling bot. I had the idea of taking a cherub face (the kind you see spitting water in fountains), putting it on a bot body, and having it spray the fire from it's mouth as it runs after you.

3. Arrows or small spears, these could be held in a much larger quantity in a bot than cannonballs, and could fire much faster than a normal human would be able to shoot them.

All three of those sound good to me. The idea of a flamethrower... man, picturing that walking down a hall in search mode, huffing a bit of flame now and then, rising smoke wafting out of the mouth and a loose seal here or there on the chassis - that brings an image to mind that's surreal.

Of course, there's the issue of setting the manor on fire, so those would have to be metal or stone-dwelling bots. ;)

For arrows, a small chute under the chin, or elsewhere, could be the launcher.

#23 Springheel

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Posted 12 April 2005 - 10:14 AM

The robots in T2 were scary because of the cannons.



I didn't find the cannons particularly scary. In fact, several robots killed themselves when the balls bounced back at them and exploded. I thought the exploding canons were right behind the exploding skulls in terms of poorly thought-out weapons.

I'm sure we can come up with something that is both frightening and practical.

I like the idea of spinning blades. A harpoon that pierces the intruder and then reels him in would also be interesting, though perhaps impractical.

A sound weapon might also be interesting. A shrill, piercing cone of sound that deafens the player and alerts the entire area. They could also fire flashbombs, blinding the player as they get close enough for a short-range flamethrower.

There are lots of possibilities.
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#24 Darkness_Falls

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Posted 12 April 2005 - 08:38 PM

Interesting thought regarding the screams. I think it'd be freaky to be spotted by a bot and have it gape open its mouth and have a horrific change of expression in its face with glowing eyes -- like it's yelling and is very angry at the same time -- and have it let out a freakish sound that's layered, jumbled, high-pitched and chaotic yet is somewhat a robotic tonal scream mixed with some human-like elements; that is somewhat muted (not as loud as a deafening scream). Not incredibly loud because we could say it is emitting tones above human auditory capabilities. This nightmarish scream would serve as a waypoint beacon, a summoning, to alert all bots (or bots of a particular type; ones that maybe have a mini-transponder on them) within a certain radius (100 feet) to come at once.

Hmm, regarding deafening: maybe have it also give a slight ring in the player's ears -- like in present day war games when a grenade goes off right next to you. I was playing a bit of FarCry the other day, and I think it is really cool when you an explosion goes off right next to you and it makes it somewhat dizzying and deafening at the same time.

#25 god_is_my_goldfish

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Posted 12 April 2005 - 09:10 PM

Interesting thought regarding the screams. I think it'd be freaky to be spotted by a bot and have it gape open its mouth and have a horrific change of expression in its face with glowing eyes -- like it's yelling and is very angry at the same time -- and have it let out a freakish sound that's layered, jumbled, high-pitched and chaotic yet is somewhat a robotic tonal scream mixed with some human-like elements; that is somewhat muted (not as loud as a deafening scream). Not incredibly loud because we could say it is emitting tones above human auditory capabilities. This nightmarish scream would serve as a waypoint beacon, a summoning, to alert all bots (or bots of a particular type; ones that maybe have a mini-transponder on them) within a certain radius (100 feet) to come at once.

interestingly enough, I'm doing that in a movie i'm writing :P

I call it "the voice of angels" in my film script.
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