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Shop Screen Concepts


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#1 god_is_my_goldfish

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Posted 22 October 2004 - 10:12 AM

Here's mine, we could possibly have the light in the background slowly fade in and out in parts of the screen to kind of replicate moonlight. If anyone wants me to put items against the backdrop, let me know.

click on it for the larger version

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Edited by god_is_my_goldfish, 22 October 2004 - 10:13 AM.

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#2 Springheel

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Posted 22 October 2004 - 10:25 AM

I like this basic idea, Gold. It would fit very nicely into the style of the stained glass menu, if we went with that one. I have a request though...please don't use the Mason font for anything other than titles. It is too ornate for descriptive text. And we will have to be consistent in which font we are going to use for our selectable buttons. I favour Mason for the titles and Carelton for the buttons, like T1/2.
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#3 god_is_my_goldfish

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Posted 22 October 2004 - 10:26 AM

yeah, i wasn't sure what the right font for the shop screen was.
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#4 sparhawk

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Posted 22 October 2004 - 10:36 AM

Here's mine, we could possibly have the light in the background slowly fade in and out in parts of the screen to kind of replicate moonlight. If anyone wants me to put items against the backdrop, let me know.

click on it for the larger version

What is the large empty area in the middle?

Do we show an enlarged picture of the selected item there?

Edited by sparhawk, 22 October 2004 - 10:37 AM.

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#5 god_is_my_goldfish

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Posted 22 October 2004 - 10:38 AM

arg, sorry i didn't make it clear. It's set up like the T1 nad 2 shop.

Lrft is stuff you have by default, middle is purchased items, right is items for sale. When you click on an item for sale the top box comes up with a description and a price.

Maybe i'de better throw some items on there to make it clearer
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#6 New Horizon

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Posted 22 October 2004 - 11:12 AM

I quite like that concept. Very stylish. I have another suggestion on how a shop might be implemented that I would like to discuss.

I wouldn't want to even suggest the shops of T3, they were very repetetive. The idea I had was to make the shops interactive, like a regular building. The fan mission maker could make it part of the map if they wished to have an ingame shop. So, our Thief walks in, shopkeeper mutters a welcome and goes about his business. You pick up a few items, walk over to the shop keeper and maybe hilight the cash register or whatever he has...kaching, your money is taken...."Thank you sir. Have a marvelous day." You leave.

Now, there are some other fun elements to be had...as the shop keeper can be like any other AI and can freak out if you try to steal something. If you run out without paying, the dude is going to start screaming and run after you alerting anyone nearby, unless he has his back turned of course. Heh heh. there is also the option of needing the storekeeper to unlock higher priced items that are held in display cases...if money is tight, wait for the shop keeper to go unpack something out back and then pick the lock, steal the goods and run.

Anyway, just a lot of loose ideas. I'm sure there could be a lot of gameplay ups and downs.

I'm not saying we shouldn't have the loading screen T1 and 2 style shop though...that could be another option for the fan mission makers as i know lots of people have tried to have ingame interactive shops with dromed. I don't know how successful they were though.

#7 sparhawk

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Posted 22 October 2004 - 11:14 AM

Maybe i'de better throw some items on there to make it clearer

Yes. That would be nice. That way I can have a better overview how it should look and work.
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#8 sparhawk

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Posted 22 October 2004 - 11:18 AM

I wouldn't want to even suggest the shops of T3, they were very repetetive.  The idea I had was to make the shops interactive, like a regular building.  The fan mission maker could make it part of the map if they wished to have an ingame shop.  So, our Thief walks in, shopkeeper mutters a welcome and goes about his business.  You pick up a few items, walk over to the shop keeper and maybe hilight the cash register or whatever he has...kaching, your money is taken...."Thank you sir.  Have a marvelous day."  You leave.


I was discussing how this could work in the City concept thread. the primary problem I see with this is. It will add an element to EACH map wehre it will be used. How should this work in a cave setting? How will the FM author atioanlize the existance of a shop in the middle of nowhere? If the map is non/linear the player could come back anytime. This means that the balance will be lost because he can buy something in the middle of the game. I don't think that this is a good option.

I have to look up the thread where I presented this concept.
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#9 New Horizon

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Posted 22 October 2004 - 11:35 AM

I was discussing how this could work in the City concept thread. the primary problem I see with this is. It will add an element to EACH map wehre it will be used. How should this work in a cave setting? How will the FM author atioanlize the existance of a shop in the middle of nowhere? If the map is non/linear the player could come back anytime. This means that the balance will be lost because he can buy something in the middle of the game. I don't think that this is a good option.

I have to look up the thread where I presented this concept.

I totally agree with what you're saying. I wasn't very clear in my explanation though. I'm only suggesting that we could setup the mechanics for an ingame shop so that FM players just have to design the architecture and then implement our settings.

For example, we could make 3 AI that are specifially shop keepers. The store doesn't have to be part of the map, the tools are there however to make it possible if it works for that designers intent. Perhaps their mission requires the thief to pick up some goods on the way as he passes through a small section on the map.

It would be entirely up to the authors whether or not they wanted an ingame shop, or if they wanted to use the old T1 and 2 style pre mission shop screen. :)

#10 sparhawk

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Posted 22 October 2004 - 11:42 AM

For example, we could make 3 AI that are specifially shop keepers. The store doesn't have to be part of the map, the tools are there however to make it possible if it works for that designers intent. Perhaps their mission requires the thief to pick up some goods on the way as he passes through a small section on the map.

Or the other thing could be that the shop is a pre-mission map. The question is if this adds really fun if you have to do it all the time. On the other hand it serves as a testbed for map creation.

http://forums.thedar...owtopic=43&st=0

I have a pretty good idea how this could work in terms of game mechanics as it would have been a part of the city section.

If there is interest in this I could write up a description how I think it should work.
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#11 New Horizon

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Posted 22 October 2004 - 11:50 AM

Hmmm, I think you are talking about something that would be made part of every persons fan mission. Is that correct? The pregame loading screen would be perfectly suited to most people I'm sure. I was just thinking of some optional mechanics in case the FM writer wanted to add some more detail to a mission that begins downtown by having one or two shops along the way. Mr. Thief could stop into a shop for supplies on his way to the mansion. Sorry if I'm repeating myself, I just want to make sure I get the concept accross correctly in case I'm being vague.

#12 Springheel

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Posted 22 October 2004 - 11:54 AM

Sort of like a template that people can add to their own maps? That would be fine. I don't think it should be integrated into the system in any other way though, for reasons already discussed in the previous thread.
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#13 DeepOmega

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Posted 22 October 2004 - 11:56 AM

Here's an interesting idea - look at how Doom3 does user interfaces. All of the non-constant interfaces (in other words, the ones that weren't on screen all the time) were actually in the game world. The PDA is held up to use it, and it doesn't interfere with the gametime - you can get your ass whipped while reading emails. Computer screens were all in the game world. It seems to me that striving for this level of immersion would be best - after all, aren't there a lot of minimalist people? So instead of a user-interfaced purchasing system, is there any reason we can't do a variation on the thief 3 method? Keep the shopkeepers with shelves of stuff, but drop the selling equipment aspect, and add a little box on the counter that'll hold everything you've got. Hell, why not make it so you can sell back your starting equipment? It would be fundamentally the same, in terms of gameplay, but without the immersion-breaking.

#14 sparhawk

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Posted 22 October 2004 - 11:56 AM

Hmmm, I think you are talking about something that would be made part of every persons fan mission. Is that correct? The pregame loading screen would be perfectly suited to most people I'm sure. I was just thinking of some optional mechanics in case the FM writer wanted to add some more detail to a mission that begins downtown by having one or two shops along the way. Mr. Thief could stop into a shop for supplies on his way to the mansion. Sorry if I'm repeating myself, I just want to make sure I get the concept accross correctly in case I'm being vague.

The city hb was like this. But we could extract the shop idea and make it into a mini-game which loads before real missions loads. Just like the shop screen would.

Or do you mean a shop that will be included into an FM? In this case how should this work? It oculd only work like this that we create a mini mpa for it, and the FM author extends his level around it. Like it was done in The Seventh Crystal (I think).
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#15 New Horizon

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Posted 22 October 2004 - 11:57 AM

Sort of like a template that people can add to their own maps? That would be fine. I don't think it should be integrated into the system in any other way though, for reasons already discussed in the previous thread.

Yes exactly, just a template. I personally wouldn't want it integrated in any way, but it's a nice option to have in the wings.

#16 sparhawk

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Posted 22 October 2004 - 11:59 AM

Keep the shopkeepers with shelves of stuff, but drop the selling equipment aspect, and add a little box on the counter that'll hold everything you've got. Hell, why not make it so you can sell back your starting equipment? It would be fundamentally the same, in terms of gameplay, but without the immersion-breaking.

I'm not sure I understand you correct. If we have the shops ingame (which could be done easily) we need to work out the detailed mechanics of how they can be used. Just putting a shop in there is not really helpfull because it will unbalance the game.

What do you mean with "Drop the selling" stuff? It's the point of the shop to supply the player with his initial weapons beyond what the author deemed enough.
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#17 New Horizon

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Posted 22 October 2004 - 12:07 PM

The city hb was like this. But we could extract the shop idea and make it into a mini-game which loads before real missions loads. Just like the shop screen would.

Or do you mean a shop that will be included into an FM? In this case how should this work? It oculd only work like this that we create a mini mpa for it, and the FM author extends his level around it. Like it was done in The Seventh Crystal (I think).

I'm not familiar with the whole coding aspect of this...so I'm kind of talking in riddles here.

If possible, what I was thinking is that there could be AI created that would be given assigned a shopkeeper mode.

It would have to be possible to have a system in place that could simply be applied to items in a shop. The level designer can design any type of shop that he wants within his map, we don't worry about the map. All we would supply are the game mechanics to apply to the items in that store.

The player could assign prices and so forth. It's still like a mini game, but it's real time in the mission. Hmmm, I'm having trouble explaining this. LOL

It would essentially be no different than in "Life of the party" in Thief 2, where there were houses along Garretts route that he could break into and steal goods. The only difference is that the fan mission designer could apply a value to these goods that would be subtracted from Garretts cash inventory when he interacts with the shopkeeper, or he could just skip out without paying while the shop keeper turns his back.

#18 New Horizon

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Posted 22 October 2004 - 12:11 PM

I'm not sure I understand you correct. If we have the shops ingame (which could be done easily) we need to work out the detailed mechanics of how they can be used. Just putting a shop in there is not really helpfull because it will unbalance the game.

What do you mean with "Drop the selling" stuff? It's the point of the shop to supply the player with his initial weapons beyond what the author deemed enough.

Ahh, but what I'm saying is that it's not meant to unbalance the game. It would be included as a fun immersion adding experience by the fan mission author to allow the character to get the tools he needs to play the mission.

It would probably be the top objective of the mission.

1. Stop by the shop to get supplies for the job
2. Make your way to the Builder Cathedral and find a way in.

That kind of thing. It wouldn't have to be there for show, but rather as an integral part of the mission...but again, only as an alternate to the pre-mission loading screen that Goldfish submitted. If the mission couldn't believeably use a shop, or the FM designer doesn't want it...use the original style preloading screen.

#19 sparhawk

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Posted 22 October 2004 - 12:13 PM

If possible, what I was thinking is that there could be AI created that would be given assigned a shopkeeper mode.

It would have to be possible to have a system in place that could simply be applied to items in a shop. The level designer can design any type of shop that he wants within his map, we don't worry about the map. All we would supply are the game mechanics to apply to the items in that store.

Ah! Now I understand what you mean.

We create an AI and a registry bas object which are connected. The Shopkeeper is a special type of AI that can interact with Garrett. This way the mod designer can create the shop design as he want's it and fits his FM style, but he wouldn't need to worry about the coding of the in-game shopkeeper.

If you mean this, then yes. Sounds like a good idea. :)

We still would have to create a shop map though, for testing this stuff. :)
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#20 New Horizon

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Posted 22 October 2004 - 12:15 PM

Ah! Now I understand what you mean.

We create an AI and a registry bas object which are connected. The Shopkeeper is a special type of AI that can interact with Garrett. This way the mod designer can create the shop design as he want's it and fits his FM style, but he wouldn't need to worry about the coding of the in-game shopkeeper.

If you mean this, then yes. Sounds like a good idea. :)

We still would have to create a shop map though, for testing this stuff. :)

:lol: Bingo, you said it better in fewer sentences than I could have in twenty posts!!!!

That's what I was trying to say in....so many more words. Thanks. :)

#21 Springheel

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Posted 22 October 2004 - 01:09 PM

So instead of a user-interfaced purchasing system, is there any reason we can't do a variation on the thief 3 method?


Gah! Omega, check out the 2 page discussion on this very issue:

http://forums.thedar...hp?showtopic=43

We came up with a number of reasons why this might not be feasible and/or fun. :)

Edited by Springheel, 22 October 2004 - 01:09 PM.

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#22 sparhawk

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Posted 22 October 2004 - 01:14 PM

Gah! Omega, check out the 2 page discussion on this very issue:

http://forums.thedar...hp?showtopic=43

We came up with a number of reasons why this might not be feasible and/or fun. :)

It IS feasable but the major point is the fun aspect. :)
Gerhard



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