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Bikerdude - Xmas FM


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#26 Serpentine

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Posted 15 December 2009 - 06:50 AM

Caulk is a texture which tells doom to not bother rendering it. But it still seals against the void. Its like making things invisible, but they're still there. Helps with performance, but also to help clean up the look when using shaders and not wanting unnecessary surfaces (the thin faces of a window in direct contact with the wall that you dont want to 'look' through anyway)

To change the size, angles etc of a projected light you have to go into vertex editing mode, select the light then hit 'V', drag them around as you see fit.
Light Properties

#27 Bikerdude

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Posted 15 December 2009 - 06:31 PM

To change the size, angles etc of a projected light you have to go into vertex editing mode, select the light then hit 'V', drag them around as you see fit.
Light Properties

sweet thanks.

Another question, I have put a curtain up to hid the entrance to the basement, how do i modify the object so I can walk through it...?

And how do I make the lid on a foot locker openable..?

And here is what I have done thus far - http://rapidshare.co...87/t78.zip.html

Edited by Bikerdude, 15 December 2009 - 07:16 PM.


#28 Serpentine

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Posted 15 December 2009 - 07:42 PM

Assuming you have used one of the 'Create Model' curtains:
  • Go to the entity tab, tick 'show interited values properties'
  • There should be a 'solid' listed, click it and set its value to 0, it will make a new black entry to tell you that the inherited value has been overridden
(you could always skip viewing inherited and just make a new one, but I think its important take note of inherited for some stuff, makes you aware of certain things)

As for the footlocker, it depends how its constructed, is it the prefab or made from brushes? If its brushes, you use the same method as making a simple door.

#29 Bikerdude

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Posted 16 December 2009 - 08:11 AM

Assuming you have used one of the 'Create Model' curtains:

As for the footlocker, it depends how its constructed, is it the prefab or made from brushes? If its brushes, you use the same method as making a simple door.


sweet, I couldnt see how to edit "grey out" values untill just now, so thanks for pointing me in the right direction.

I copied and pasted the "atdm:mover_door" into the class name and changed the rotate to 0 0 -75. All I would like to doo now is increase the opening/clossing speed of that lid and doors - which i tried but they are greyed out..

I realise that Im skipping ahead of myself and should consult the wiki(which I do and will) but if you guys dont mind me asking as well as that would be much appreciated, so... how do I make an entity (blackjack, flashmine, shortsword, etc) go into the player inventory when its frobbed..?

Edited by Bikerdude, 16 December 2009 - 12:12 PM.


#30 Fidcal

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Posted 16 December 2009 - 11:58 AM

Openable containers are complicated having many parts not just a lid and a body but a lockpin and a frob control brush, not to mention setting up keys and lockpicks and loot and lining the container and peering them and mastering them and so many other things you just don't want to know! I recommend you use one of the prefabs that are already made up.

When inserting prefabs make sure you have texture lock ON and all filters OFF just in case you move or rotate you might miss something.

Once inserted all components are highlighted. You want to move it carefully into position because to move it later you have to select everything and not miss anything. You might first create a layer and call it say Chest1 and after inserting the prefab while it's all still highlighted right click it and move to layer. Then if you do need to select it later you need only click on the layer. As you advance you might not need to do this for everything but I'm just saying so you know. [edit yes you can right mouse drag over it to reselect but usually finish up with half the upstairs and downstairs rooms as well!)

Two problems with prefabs (or any multi-selection. One is rotating. You might find origins or components dont' rotate how you would expect. In the case of these chests I think it is just the tiny lockpin that goes out of kilter. I recommend that just after inserting you study close up it's correct position so you know where it *should* be. Then if you rotate it and find the lockpin elsewhere I suggest delete it's rotation property and start again to move it and rotate it into position.

The other problem is also the lockpin. Check that it has the property immune_to_target_setfrobable and set to 1. I think this was omitted from some of them so I'm looking into it and will update them.

#31 Bikerdude

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Posted 16 December 2009 - 12:33 PM

I recommend you use one of the prefabs that are already made up.

The other problem is also the lockpin. Check that it has the property immune_to_target_setfrobable and set to 1. I think this was omitted from some of them so I'm looking into it and will update them.


Well the only reason I considered doing this contest was because of all the pre-made objects, entities, brushes and textures. I have already created and furnished a little house with mainroom, kitchen, basement, store room and adjoining sewer.

I keep it as simple as possible and keep the object/entity/brush count down as much for myself as for people running my Fm on low end systems - so this means No no complicated stuff like making my own objects, working locks, door handles etc...

I maybe a good computer/mechanical/electrical engineer but I am no designer, In the context of TDM I am what I guess you would call a map jocky :-)

And on that note... how do I make an entity (blackjack, flashmine, shortsword, etc) go into the player's inventory when its frobbed..?

Edited by Bikerdude, 16 December 2009 - 12:37 PM.


#32 Springheel

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Posted 16 December 2009 - 12:36 PM

how do I make an entity (blackjack, flashmine, shortsword, etc) go into the player inventory when its frobbed..?


Some things are already set up to do that (like those you mention above) so you just add the entity (not just the model) to the map normally. I think anything in the "equipment" folder in the entity hierarchy (or is it player tools? I'm at work) does that automatically. If you want to take an entity that doesn't normally go into inventory and make it do so, that's something I've never looked at; Fidcal can answer that one.

#33 Fidcal

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Posted 16 December 2009 - 12:47 PM

Yes, custom objects - that's another ballgame. But I think what is probably happening is you are selecting the models which just become static. Instead, right click in the grid view and use Create Entity from the popup menu then scroll down to Moveables. There are also player tools - can't remember if they are under moveables or got their own section.

If what you want is not there then ask again specifically which model.

#34 Bikerdude

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Posted 16 December 2009 - 02:10 PM

Skybox wiki page
Skybox tutorial

Once you have created a skybox successfully, you pretty much create walls of sky portal where its needed, it does the rest, exactly as you were thinking Posted Image



Im at a point now where I wouold like to sort this, but I stubled at the pfb, where do I get this from..?

#35 Fidcal

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Posted 16 December 2009 - 03:29 PM

Extract darkmod\tdm_prefabs01.pk4 into the darkmod folder (rename its suffix to .zip if you don't know how to associate with your zip program. This creates darkmod\prefabs folder containing subfolders which you can access via the file menu of Dark Radiant or Right click the grid view and insert where you click. The sky is under prefabs/nature/skyboxes. Insert the skybox well away from anywhere you are likely to build; it's just a kind of camera pointing at dynamic sky. You then texture any place in your FM where you want sky to show with smf\portal_sky texture which acts like a TV screen receiving the sky from the 'camera' in the skybox. For instance, a yard might be just an ordinary 'room' with sky on the ceiling and maybe half way down the walls.

If you have performance problems then you do not have to have a dynamic skybox but can just texture sky with a texture from darkmod/skybox/starry1. These are excellent skies but just not with dynamic clouds, etc.

#36 Bikerdude

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Posted 16 December 2009 - 07:15 PM

I think anything in the "equipment" folder in the entity hierarchy (or is it player tools? I'm at work) does that automatically.

There are also player tools - can't remember if they are under moveables or got their own section.


Ive found the Blackjack and Shortsword and a bunch of arrows in weapons and these can be used by the player as indicated when you deselect the item/s in DR they become orange. But the lockpicks, potions, various mines and other items in the Playertools are moveable but not useable as indicated by turning blue when deselected in DR....

#37 Fidcal

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Posted 17 December 2009 - 01:41 AM

You mean they don't work in the game? Lockpicks and health potions don't work to pick locks and restore health? Dunno about the editor colour though.

#38 Fidcal

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Posted 17 December 2009 - 02:32 AM

OK, I've now had time to take a look and what you are using are moveables/player tools which are just inert moveable objects. What you want are under a separate heading in the entities under Playertools. (both are light blue in my setup btw.)

I can't keep up with where everybody is and what they know but I would recommend you just insert the tools and weapons prefab (under misc) as they are all set up and it's easier to delete what you don't want. This is included within startpack (which I definitely recommend for any future FMs you make.)

#39 Springheel

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Posted 17 December 2009 - 09:35 AM

OK, I've now had time to take a look and what you are using are moveables/player tools which are just inert moveable objects.


That seems like a recipe for confusion. Why would we want moveable player tools that the player can't frob, I wonder?

#40 Fidcal

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Posted 17 December 2009 - 10:44 AM

I imagine that lots of moveables were made and every small model assigned just in case. For example, I use a moveable non-working lantern in my FM belonging to another character. Or suppose you wanted a situation where a character was to switch a faulty mine for a good one. In practice, you get used to regarding the moveables list as just moveable objects that do nothing else.

#41 Bikerdude

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Posted 17 December 2009 - 11:16 AM

OK, I've now had time to take a look and what you are using are moveables/player tools which are just inert moveable objects.

What did you think of what I have done so far..? Im planning on adding a sewer system and then a bunch of other suprises...

but I would recommend you just insert the tools and weapons prefab (under misc) as they are all set up and it's easier to delete what you don't want. This is included within startpack (which I definitely recommend for any future FMs you make.)


For now the only tools in the footlocker are the ones that the player can use, I will come back to this later - it would be great if someone could mod the other tools so they arte useable...... Regarding the startpack, I mentioned earlier in the thread that it causes Tdm to crash for some reason..?

Edited by Bikerdude, 17 December 2009 - 11:21 AM.


#42 Fidcal

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Posted 17 December 2009 - 11:49 AM

What did you think of what I have done so far..? Im planning on adding a sewer system and then a bunch of other suprises...

Not had time to look. Is that old rapidshare link uptodate? I don't want to look at a 3-day old version but I'll take a look at a new one if I can find time.

For now the only tools in the footlocker are the ones that the player can use, I will come back to this later. it would be great if someone could mod the other tools so they are useable

Sorry, don't understand. All the player tools work and are in the PlayerTools section.

Regarding the startpack, I mentioned earlier in the thread that it causes Tdm to crash for some reason..?

Can't help with this techy problem I'm afraid. Perhaps it's because there are a lot of AI. You might try:

Open the startmap.map in Dark Radiant.
Save it with a new name.
Delete half the AI.
Save again.
Dmap and see if it works in TDM
If not, try deleting all the AI and try again.

#43 Bikerdude

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Posted 17 December 2009 - 02:10 PM

Not had time to look. Is that old rapidshare link uptodate? I don't want to look at a 3-day old version but I'll take a look at a new one if I can find time.


I tried to attach the current map file to this post but I got the Error "You aren't permitted to upload this kind of file"

so have put a link up on the 1st post.

#44 Fidcal

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Posted 17 December 2009 - 03:52 PM

Yes, you've absolutely got the basics, lighting, texturing, fires, quite cosy actually and it looks fine. I like the use of that stove pipe. Haha! Just the sort of devious trick I might do. I expect some things you know about but haven't got too yet but I'll list important notes anyway:

Needs (leastways recommended by everybody and his dog) ambient light over the entire map so there is no absolute black darkness. Name this ambient_world (important) so it works with the fast texture ambient method on slow PCs. And give it a brightness of roughly (range say, 0.4 to 0.8):

_color 0.7 0.7 0.7

Next, these rooms are tiny. That gives a good intimate atmosphere and the player can move around fine but if you were to add AI they would probably get stuck easily. This is fine if AI cannot reach that area but keep it in mind for any future sections. With that in mind, AI cannot 'see' entities (except for moveables) nor patches. They only really navigate by brush walls and floors. So in areas where AI go we always need to add brushes textured with common\monster_clip where we don't want the AI to go. This is invisible to the player in the game but guides the AI. Roughly surround objects (except moveables) with a monster_clip brush. Very low objects that you want the AI to step over like a flat sack on the floor then the monster_clip brush can be the height of the object. Other objects like big static crates, tables, etc. the monster_clip can reach right to the ceiling. This reduces unecessary pathfinding data. Below is a room with and without. Note the little chair is a moveable.


I said texturing is OK but as you progress you need to align and rotate a few things so they look correct. Here you have cut through wooden planks so cut through at the edges of the planks. Also rotate the textures 90 in Surface Inspector so the grain is the correct way.

Great progress in just a few days.

#45 Bikerdude

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Posted 17 December 2009 - 04:20 PM

  • Yes, you've absolutely got the basics, lighting, texturing, fires, quite cosy actually and it looks fine. I like the use of that stove pipe. Haha! Just the sort of devious trick I might do.
  • Needs ambient light over the entire map so there is no absolute black darkness.
  • Next, these rooms are tiny. That gives a good intimate atmosphere and the player can move around fine but if you were to add AI they would probably get stuck easily. Roughly surround objects (except moveables) with a monster_clip brush.
  • I said texturing is OK but as you progress you need to align and rotate a few things so they look correct.
Great progress in just a few days.

  • Good stuff, some of the guys at work have been watching what have been doing and are eager to see a finished level :-P
  • I did wonder about this, and I will add some ambient, but it I'm honest I rather like the inky blackness, it reminds me of T1 and RL. So maybe just enough to show some details like in RL...
  • Ah now, this I didnt know about so thatnks for the heads up..
  • Hmm I though I have done that by selecting the aforementioned planks and then clicking natural from the surface inspector.
This is the second house Ive built, I kept forgetting to put the grid back to 8 and so everything always needed bloody tweaking. So I did what any self respecting perfectionist would do, build a new house at grid8 and then move all the furniture, lights, fixtures, doors, etc, etc, etc to the new house and deleted the old. And while I was at it I put the new house at 0,0 on the grid just to be anal....

Thanks for the praise, its appreciated, I'm glad I'm doing it with DR though instead of DE.

#46 Serpentine

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Posted 17 December 2009 - 05:01 PM

Just remember that you can switch grid sizes with the number keys, makes life a load easier
And if you ever work in 0.125 or such by mistake and you're a little bit brave, you can just select everything including vertexes/points, change grid size to whatever you want and hit "snap to grid", works surprisingly well when it isnt deleting stuff for whatever reason it does, just need to watch out for decals.

Looking good tho, once you get this stuff down, you start getting quite quick with DR.

#47 Bikerdude

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Posted 18 December 2009 - 01:22 AM

I cant seem to find an electric lights in the entities list....

I have uploaded the current map - http://cid-bef40fb32....Public?lc=2057

Edited by Bikerdude, 18 December 2009 - 02:07 AM.


#48 Fidcal

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Posted 18 December 2009 - 02:40 AM

Generally just make a static electric light model and place a normal light. In most cases give physical lights the property noshadows and value 1. Helps performance and looks much better.

#49 Bikerdude

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Posted 18 December 2009 - 05:16 AM

Generally just make a static electric light model and place a normal light. In most cases give physical lights the property noshadows and value 1. Helps performance and looks much better.

Ah ok, I havent learned how to create custom objects properly yet, (as in circles, triangles etc)

Also I have updated the map and run into another problem that I cant readily find an answer to on the wiki... I made an underground water powered power station, how do i make the gears turn(w/sound) and the generators(w/sound). I had hoped the object would work with sound straight from the off...

#50 Fidcal

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Posted 18 December 2009 - 07:32 AM

I get the impression you already have it rotating? To add sound add a speaker entity (see wiki) If the rotator is switchable with a lever or button then you also need to target the speaker. (you can have target1, target2 etc.)



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