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#51 Springheel

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Posted 18 December 2009 - 11:05 AM

Ah ok, I havent learned how to create custom objects properly yet, (as in circles, triangles etc)


You don't have to make them from scratch; there are several electric lights in the models (not entities) list.
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#52 Bikerdude

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Posted 18 December 2009 - 01:39 PM

I get the impression you already have it rotating? To add sound add a speaker entity (see wiki) If the rotator is switchable with a lever or button then you also need to target the speaker. (you can have target1, target2 etc.)

No Havet managed that yet, but as you say I shall consult the wiki. And the speaker suggestion makes sense, I had seen them in the list but forgot, doh!

You don't have to make them from scratch; there are several electric lights in the models (not entities) list.

Hmm Ill have to have a look again then, as I must have missed them..

#53 Springheel

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Posted 18 December 2009 - 03:02 PM

Hmm Ill have to have a look again then, as I must have missed them..


They're under models/darkmod/lights/non-extinguishable.
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#54 Bikerdude

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Posted 18 December 2009 - 03:43 PM

They're under models/darkmod/lights/non-extinguishable.


Found them, doh! But on that subject, I found one of the light objects dosent let light pass through it (models/darkmod/lights/non-extinguishable/simple_square1_hanging.lwo)

On another note, where in the wiki do I look for how to make a gear rotate..?

Edited by Bikerdude, 18 December 2009 - 03:44 PM.


#55 Springheel

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Posted 18 December 2009 - 03:54 PM

Most of the lights will be opaque until you turn shadows off. Look that up on the wiki, as I can't remember the exact property.
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#56 Fidcal

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Posted 18 December 2009 - 04:32 PM

Found them, doh! But on that subject, I found one of the light objects dosent let light pass through it (models/darkmod/lights/non-extinguishable/simple_square1_hanging.lwo)

On another note, where in the wiki do I look for how to make a gear rotate..?

I don't know. Not done it myself. I would look for some kind of rotator entity probably under the mover section then experiment. Probably need to look at the inherited properties for things like speed. Probably direction might be a negative number. I'm guessing here. There was a rotator in the machine in the lockpick section of the trainer. Take a look at that maybe.

#57 Bikerdude

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Posted 18 December 2009 - 04:50 PM

Most of the lights will be opaque until you turn shadows off. Look that up on the wiki, as I can't remember the exact property.

Hmm, I remember you saying about turning shadows off, but isnt that the whole point of using the Doom engine because of the gorgeous shadows..? or does turning shadows off form some object only turn internal shadows and not external off...?!

I'm guessing here. There was a rotator in the machine in the lockpick section of the trainer. Take a look at that maybe.

Ah cool, otherwise who is the best object maker on the team that could have a look at this for me..?

btw if I haven't said this already I appreciate you guys replying to my constant (as I assume annoying) questions :-)

Edited by Bikerdude, 18 December 2009 - 04:51 PM.


#58 Mortem Desino

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Posted 18 December 2009 - 05:00 PM

Putting a light entity into a streetlight model is just like putting a lightbulb into a cardboard box.

That streetlight model (aka func_static) needs to have the spawnarg noshadows = 1 for the light to shine through the model.
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#59 Springheel

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Posted 18 December 2009 - 05:34 PM

Hmm, I remember you saying about turning shadows off, but isnt that the whole point of using the Doom engine because of the gorgeous shadows..?


I didn't mean turning shadows off everywhere. :) You can set individual objects to not cast shadows, as well as individual lights. You need to set the lamp model so it doesn't cast a shadow (as Mortem said above), so the light can shine 'through' it.
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#60 Fidcal

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Posted 18 December 2009 - 05:37 PM

Hmm, I remember you saying about turning shadows off, but isnt that the whole point of using the Doom engine because of the gorgeous shadows..? or does turning shadows off form some object only turn internal shadows and not external off...?!

It's selected shadows that we turn off. Light fades in the distance giving soft shadows but objects that block light cast a hard shadow. Shadows use up performance so there are lots of things where it is not very important if they don't have a shadow and in some cases it looks better. You have to learn by experience which lights should not cast shadows and which objects should not cast shadows (noshadows 1 can be set on either.) A physical torch holder or an electric wall light would normally cast very faint diffuse shadows because they are relatively small and swamped by bright light all around or in them. Yet Doom3 would cast a very hard shadow in such a situation so we set noshadows 1 on them (the physical light model not the light.) A gargoyle up on a gloomy roof hardly needs to cast shadows. Shallow trim high on a wall might not need any shadows, and so on. But we certainly don't stop shadows on everything. In the FMs you played did you notice no shadows? No. Yet there were a lot of things set to noshadows but carefully chosen so it is not obvious.

Ah cool, otherwise who is the best object maker on the team that could have a look at this for me..?

There are already some cog models provided. The rotator is an entity without a model. Select a cog you just made and you will see it has func_static as the classname at the top. Select that line in Enitity Inspector and a button appears at the bottom to let you change the entity class. Use it to search for some kind of rotator entity and change it to that.

btw if I haven't said this already I appreciate you guys replying to my constant (as I assume annoying) questions :-)

No problem. The more FMs that are made the more fun for all. :)

#61 Baddcog

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Posted 18 December 2009 - 05:47 PM

The issue with shadows on light objects is that it's very hard to model them so you get a good realistic shadow.

If the metal of a lamp casted shadows (which can be done with a shadow mesh on the object) it will leave big black spots above and under it.
That doesn't happen so much in real life, there is more diffuse light and reflection in real life. And while the dynamic shadows of Doom3 can have great effects the lack of ambient world lighting other engines have isn't present. Half Life engine (Hammer) does a great job of bouncing lights so having shadows cast from the light objects would look better, but that engine doesn't have real time lighting, so you can't move a chair and hide in its shadow like you can in DarkMod.
And if you did move a chair there would be a dark spot where the chairs shadow was cast during the lighting phase of compile.


I don't currently know of any engine that can do both. They either have real time lighting like Doom3 (and Thief3) which is great for alot of things. Guards carring torches with moving shadows, moving shadows when you walk around with a candle, being able to move objects to hide in their shadows.

or they have really good light bounces calculated during compile (which can take ALONG time) like Thief II and halflife and can look really good visually. But dynamic lights with shadows are not possible. Thief II had dynamic lights, but no shadows cast by them.

As much as a combination would be great, I think having real time lighting is the best of the 2 options for a sneaker game. Baked lighting can be faked somewhat with decals and textures. Real time lighting can't be faked at all.
--------
About cogs.

I'm not at home so can't look now. I'm pretty sure the gears only need to have
rotate 0 90 0
(xyz) put in their props. Maybe they need to be a func_rotate, but I don't think so. (been a little while since I messed with them. Just be sure to use a moveable gear entity, not a static model.
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#62 plasticman

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Posted 18 December 2009 - 06:48 PM

I don't currently know of any engine that can do both.

Looks like Cryengine 3 does the magic:
http://www.youtube.c...h?v=FqeXuO2AlEE

...not trying to derail the thread. :)

#63 Bikerdude

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Posted 18 December 2009 - 08:42 PM

I want to put a visportal up (just started learning about them) Ive put up one big brush at the rendering fade point in DR which is just in the middle of my mission.

But am tearing my hair out here, where the hell is the visportal texture? Ive looked in textures>common> and I cant see it...grrr

I have uploaded my current build - http://cid-bef40fb32....Public?lc=2057

Edited by Bikerdude, 18 December 2009 - 08:43 PM.


#64 Crispy

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Posted 19 December 2009 - 02:06 AM

It's under textures->editor->visportal

See: http://modetwo.net/d...eate_visportals
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#65 Bikerdude

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Posted 19 December 2009 - 06:09 AM

It's under textures->editor->visportal See: http://modetwo.net/d...eate_visportals

Ah cool, looks like the wiki needs updating then as its pointing to the old/wrong location...

#66 Fidcal

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Posted 19 December 2009 - 06:20 AM

Well, the Visportals article seems OK: http://modetwo.net/d...itle=Visportals

And the A - Z is OK. http://modetwo.net/d...ing:_Visportals

Where are you looking on the wiki Bikerdude? Maybe I missed one.

btw you can also create a visportal from the brush menu and possibly a button.

#67 Bikerdude

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Posted 19 December 2009 - 07:01 AM

Where are you looking on the wiki Bikerdude? Maybe I missed one.

btw you can also create a visportal from the brush menu and possibly a button.

Doh, I could have sworn http://modetwo.net/d...itle=Visportals was wrong, but I think I must have been sleep deprived LOL.

The r_showportals 1 command doesn't seem to work for me, I cant see the visportals let alone see if they are on or off

About cogs.

I'm not at home so can't look now. I'm pretty sure the gears only need to have
rotate 0 90 0
(xyz) put in their props. Maybe they need to be a func_rotate, but I don't think so. (been a little while since I messed with them. Just be sure to use a moveable gear entity, not a static model.


Hmm cant find a gear entity....

Edited by Bikerdude, 19 December 2009 - 06:47 PM.


#68 Crispy

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Posted 19 December 2009 - 07:46 PM

The r_showportals 1 command doesn't seem to work for me, I cant see the visportals let alone see if they are on or off

Make sure you've set the portal up correctly and remembered to dmap afterwards.
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#69 Bikerdude

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Posted 20 December 2009 - 12:46 AM

Make sure you've set the portal up correctly and remembered to dmap afterwards.

Thats the problem I also seem to be having, Ive read and re-read the wiki but Im still no close to getting a wotking visportal...

#70 Fidcal

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Posted 20 December 2009 - 06:49 AM

Models > mechanical > gears

Select classname and use the button to change the class to Func > movers > func_rotating
Click show inherited properties top left Entity Inspector to see the properties to set.

#71 Serpentine

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Posted 20 December 2009 - 07:56 AM

Visportals have to remain simple for the most part. I have noticed sometimes if the visportal goes into a doorframe and doesnt just cover the door it will not portal correctly, other issues are if two portals touch and with portals leaking. I'm not sure if there is an easy way, but to find leaks around my visportals I usually give the ones I am testing a solid texture and then open a section behind them to the void, this way if there is a leak you get a nice point file and can adjust the 'portal' brush to cover it. This isnt always possible tho, with AI and lighting added elsewhere you would run into issues. I also tend to use the 'make visportal' option in the toobar.

#72 Bikerdude

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Posted 20 December 2009 - 09:01 AM

Select classname and use the button to change the class to Func > movers > func_rotating
Click show inherited properties top left Entity Inspector to see the properties to set.

Ah i had seen the word func but hadnt reached that far into the wiki, ta again ;-)

Visportals have to remain simple for the most part. I have noticed sometimes if the visportal goes into a doorframe and doesnt just cover the door it will not portal correctly,

Ah, now I wondered about that as I cant remember reading that in the wiki or not.Also cant visportal seal again sound propogation from entities that have sound built in, eg a wall torch or a fire....?

Edited by Bikerdude, 20 December 2009 - 09:04 AM.


#73 Fidcal

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Posted 20 December 2009 - 09:36 AM

The func_rotator wouldn't be in the A-Z Beginner's Guide because it's not really for beginners. I don't think I've ever used it. The Dark Mod wiki in general is not a fully comprehensive of every feature but it's likely a doom entity so googling around might have found it.

I'm also not very knowledgeable about sound propagation through visportals. Is there are a door at the same place that you want to reduce the sound coming through? Or are you saying you can hear a torch through a wall? I'm unsure why you want to 'seal' sound from coming through an open visportal.

[edit] also puzzled because you said you hadn't got a working visportal anyway. ;)

#74 Bikerdude

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Posted 20 December 2009 - 01:32 PM

The func_rotator wouldn't be in the A-Z Beginner's Guide because it's not really for beginners.

Or are you saying you can hear a torch through a wall? I'm unsure why you want to 'seal' sound from coming through an open visportal.


Well Ive got the gears working perfectly now, I just have to figure how to program the Damage flag, ie if the player is fool hardy enough to deliberately try getting into certain areas I want to reward them with pain or death!

Regarding the visportal issue, well I have a few torch entites around and the sound from them is going stright through stone walls, floors etc. And I want to block the sound as it would be in real life..

#75 lostbuthappy

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Posted 20 December 2009 - 01:54 PM

Check out the wiki:

Sound to the player from any source are blocked by closed visportals but once opened then the sound passes directly from source to the player in a straight line even through solid brushes.

Source: http://modetwo.net/d...und_Propagation



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