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Various Questions About Dark Mod


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#1 Dram

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Posted 23 January 2005 - 09:47 PM

Just wanted to know a couple questions:

1. how the books are being done? - are they going to use Doom3's idea of panels? (so you culd scroll over the pages)

2. are any sounds done yet? - if so, please could you post up an example of anything :D I wanted to know what it'll sound like (roughly).

3. will the weapons be the same like in thief1 & 2 or more like t3 (god no!!!! :( ) - as in the blackjack still does no noise upon impact, etc.

Thanks, Dram

#2 New Horizon

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Posted 23 January 2005 - 09:55 PM

Just wanted to know a couple questions:







Thanks, Dram

Can't give out anything too concrete this early in developement but.....

1. how the books are being done? - are they going to use Doom3's idea of panels? (so you culd scroll over the pages)


Similar to Thief 1 and 2...but....haven't fully settled this yet.

2. are any sounds done yet? - if so, please could you post up an example of anything :D  I wanted to know what it'll sound like (roughly).


There are many sounds but nothing that we can post just yet.



3. will the weapons be the same like in thief1 & 2 or more like t3 (god no!!!! :( ) - as in the blackjack still does no noise upon impact, etc.


Our primary inspiration is Thief 1 and 2, but there is much room for our own flavor. The HUD will be non intrusive however. That's all I can say about that for now. :)


Well, I think I'm off for the night. :)

#3 Dram

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Posted 23 January 2005 - 09:59 PM

Thanks for the good news (sighs of relief).

Would'nt want the same stupid problem like in t3 where the blackjack absotlutely MUST come up into the middle of the screen in order to be able to KO. The problem being in the fact that sometimes it would go up and down and by clicking it results in a pissed off guard. Glad to hear it will not be the case.

--Dram

#4 TazmanianDevil

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Posted 25 January 2005 - 08:17 PM

I just finished playing Myst IV and I thought it was awesome what they did with the books. You could actually grab the edges of the pages and flip them back and forth just like real pages in a book. None of this, click on the page and it just turns in the next page. You guys got any thoughts to making the books look and act more real?

I've always appreciated detail when put into things like books (both the look and the content). It was pretty sad that you could tell in TDS that the text wasn't even part of the page but was poorly overlayed on top.

#5 Guest_Guest_*

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Posted 26 January 2005 - 03:27 AM

Despite Thief 1 and 2's greatness, I always found myself wishing the player could switch his sword for a guard's sword or other weapon (club, mace, whip - whatever). Any chance we may be able to switch weapons with those of knocked out/dead/sleeping guards? Maybe switch clothing a la hitman as well? I know it's asking a lot, but I wouldn't be dissapointed if it weren't implemented anyhow.

#6 sparhawk

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Posted 26 January 2005 - 03:45 AM

No comment on that at this point. :)
Gerhard

#7 Ishtvan

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Posted 26 January 2005 - 03:46 AM

FM authors could probably pull off the "clothing switch" with scripting. We're planning to have a player model, so they'd have to switch that, and then switch how the AI respond to the player (which should be pretty customizable by the time we're done).

[Moderated by Sparhawk]

As for other weapons, it's an interesting idea. As Sparhawk said, no comment at this point. :) Personally, I don't think it's very Thiefy. I would think a thief would spend most of their time training in the arts of deception, not combat. The thief knows how to use a shortsword, but has not trained extensively with other weapons, so wouldn't really be comfortable using them (except maybe to throw at people to slow them down). That's just my personal opinion though, not an official response.

Edited by sparhawk, 26 January 2005 - 03:56 AM.


#8 Guest_Guest_*

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Posted 26 January 2005 - 04:16 AM

Kein problem :) was just curious. Also, though this may seem a little far fetched, when I played T1 and T2, in many levels after perfectly ghosting a mission or FM, I'd sometimes go to the most important room in the house/mansion (Ramirez' bedroom on 3rd floor in assassins, upstairs office in Cragcleft, Karras' office in Life of the Party) and leave a "signature" saying I was there - just to piss them off. Sometimes I'd fire a single broadhead into the headboard, leave a master key on their desk, an important note or message in the kitchen, etc.

So...what I'm getting to is this..what if you had the ability to bring a little "notepad" with you? Sort of like the writeable map feature in T2 - except it's an actual little book. You could jot down important notes, even import small jpegs so they appear in the book, or...at the end of a mission, when all is done well and you need only escape...you decide to give in to the mischievious little schoolboy and write a nasty note and tear off the page and leave it whereever you like? Maybe even shot into place with a broadhead arrow?

Yes, it's strange, but even in a single player game like T1 and T2, people enjoyed doing strange things already (frogbeasting and many more).

Sorry to sound like an overanxious fan, but this Mod project seems to be doing that to me lately.

#9 sparhawk

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Posted 26 January 2005 - 04:47 AM

This sounds like a very nice idea to add additional objectives which were not possible in the original Thief. Then again it reminds me a bit of the mission where you had to put evidence into a special place as objective. I have added your suggestion to our evaluation process, as we certainl will not do it with the first release. For this we have a thread where we collect ideas that we dont want to forget about, and we discuss such things when we decide what features to put in the next release. As you may understand we can not do everything at once, so we need to define milestones and what features they should include. As we are in the beginning, we focus on core features and will add enhancements later.
Gerhard

#10 Domarius

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Posted 26 January 2005 - 07:36 AM

Despite Thief 1 and 2's greatness, I always found myself wishing the player could switch his sword for a guard's sword or other weapon (club, mace, whip - whatever). Any chance we may be able to switch weapons with those of knocked out/dead/sleeping guards? Maybe switch clothing a la hitman as well? I know it's asking a lot, but I wouldn't be dissapointed if it weren't implemented anyhow.

Yeah, hitman blew me away with it's "Thief" type stuff. SO much work went into that side of it. And then it pissed me off when I realised all their work was wasted because the easiest option by far, is to just go in guns blazing... :angry: They didn't make "sneaking" worthwhile.

But using other weapons might be outside of the scope of the game. You really have to be trained in a weapon to do anything useful with it. Garrett has always trained to be nimble and flexible whereas a guard generally would always train in strength over these things. And Garrett and guards have different weapons to reflect that. Garret picking up a mace would be pointless - he'd lose all his advantages, and he'd just be slower and do less damage than a guard with the same weapon. Even when Garret uses his sword, he's not as fast and doesn't do as much damage, because guards train primarily with those kinds of weapons.

"Disgusing yourself", well, could be one for the "suggestion box" for after the initial release. Since we're sticking to first person, it'd just probably be a matter of clicking on clothing and the game says "You now look like a monk", and then the guards would treat you the same way they do as if they see you on the street. IE. you'd have to be seen doing something bad for them to get angry at you.

Anyway I'm just thinking out aloud. Don't take my words as an official response.

#11 Domarius

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Posted 26 January 2005 - 07:38 AM

I just finished playing Myst IV and I thought it was awesome what they did with the books. You could actually grab the edges of the pages and flip them back and forth just like real pages in a book. None of this, click on the page and it just turns in the next page. You guys got any thoughts to making the books look and act more real?

I've always appreciated detail when put into things like books (both the look and the content). It was pretty sad that you could tell in TDS that the text wasn't even part of the page but was poorly overlayed on top.

Actually, we do have something interesting planned for making books more real. It's for after the first release though. And I don't think I'm allowed to say anything about it.

#12 oDDity

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Posted 26 January 2005 - 08:15 AM

No, the disguse option is right out of the question. It completely kills gameplay in this type of stealth game. Except perhaps for specific missions or plots where it might be required, but it shouldn't be a default part of the game where you can use take anyone's clothes and walk around unhindered wherever you want.
It was totally stupid in Hitman as well.
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#13 Domarius

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Posted 26 January 2005 - 10:43 AM

You're probably right. It would be pretty easy to make a little script that said if you've got this particular object in your inventory, then guards act like they do when you're all outside. Actually stealing peoples clothes in any game would be a lot more work, and not much benifit over that other way I just described.

#14 Ishtvan

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Posted 26 January 2005 - 12:28 PM

I agree disguises should only be a special case FM option. And I still think it could be done with entirely with FM-scripting if we keep the AI reactions customizable enough. It would be just like OM Undercover, but switch the AI reactions to that when you frobbed a specific body in a specific way or got a clothes item or something.

Yeah, hitman blew me away with it's "Thief" type stuff. SO much work went into that side of it. And then it pissed me off when I realised all their work was wasted because the easiest option by far, is to just go in guns blazing...  They didn't make "sneaking" worthwhile.


While the combat in Hitman wasn't realistic at all, I must point out that Hitman2 gave you the "silent assassin" award and special weapons, etc, if you basically ghosted a map except for one KO. Also, the reward is your own personal satisfaction, just like ghosting in Thief. :)

#15 Springheel

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Posted 26 January 2005 - 12:28 PM

Garrett has always trained ...



Keeping in mind, of course, that our Thief is not Garrett.... ;)
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#16 Guest_Guest_*

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Posted 26 January 2005 - 01:08 PM

Agreed, on second thought. Disguises would be pointless. I still like the notebook thingie though - especially if we were able to write in it, import small images, maybe tear pages off to leave behind. Anyhow, as long as broadhead arrows remain visible (and frobbeable) when stuck in wood, I'll be a happy camper.

#17 Domarius

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Posted 27 January 2005 - 10:25 AM

Keeping in mind, of course, that our Thief is not Garrett

What I really meant was, any person trying to be a Thief. I don't know that focusing on strength would be useful training for a Thief. Not the style of Thief we are focusing on anyway.




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