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Fan Mission: Lord Dufford's (2010/03/31)


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Poll: Fan Mission: Lord Dufford's (2010/03/31) (14 member(s) have cast votes)

Gameplay: Enjoyment. Fun duration. Smooth flow, ect. Versus Bugs. Frustration, Boredom.

  1. Poor/Tolerable (4 votes [28.57%])

    Percentage of vote: 28.57%

  2. ok (6 votes [42.86%])

    Percentage of vote: 42.86%

  3. good (2 votes [14.29%])

    Percentage of vote: 14.29%

  4. excellent (2 votes [14.29%])

    Percentage of vote: 14.29%

  5. near perfect (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

Appearance: Visual pleasure, lighting, visual style, deduct bad texturing ect.

  1. Poor/Tolerable (2 votes [14.29%])

    Percentage of vote: 14.29%

  2. ok (3 votes [21.43%])

    Percentage of vote: 21.43%

  3. good (5 votes [35.71%])

    Percentage of vote: 35.71%

  4. excellent (3 votes [21.43%])

    Percentage of vote: 21.43%

  5. near perfect (1 votes [7.14%])

    Percentage of vote: 7.14%

Story & Text: Story. Text. Briefing. Graphic storytelling

  1. Poor/Tolerable (2 votes [14.29%])

    Percentage of vote: 14.29%

  2. ok (4 votes [28.57%])

    Percentage of vote: 28.57%

  3. good (7 votes [50.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 50.00%

  4. excellent (1 votes [7.14%])

    Percentage of vote: 7.14%

  5. near perfect (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

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#26 stumpy

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Posted 01 April 2010 - 08:34 PM

the invalid handle bug which is supposed to cause the crashes was supposed to be fixed in the last patch, so dont know if its an engine fault or a map fault, or object fault, but engine is still in beta as far as I know.

#27 The Elusive One

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Posted 01 April 2010 - 11:21 PM

Is no one able to help me? Not even the author? Feeling a little ignored here: Link to my post with questions

#28 Daft

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Posted 02 April 2010 - 04:45 AM

OK, sorry to say that, but this is the first FM I'm deleting and don't want to play it again...

The mission was so big and had a lot of vast and empty spaces, not to mention the doors... In every room there's like 5 of them... For what? I even had to left them open for not loosing the track of where have I've been. I simply felt lost... Even cheated for the first time in TDM, using noclip and show_loot.
And the readables - in a mission where the task is to find some last will and you can come up up to 50 readables (maybe there's more of them), it's just stupid. Yeah, some of them were fun to read like the potion of some dude, but hey...

There were some pros I liked - believable story and interesting plot, acces to the sewers, the map in the streets behind the glass etc.
and other small details (like the spilled wine in basement - which on the other hand didn't looked well, since the wine was acting like a water in the river).

If the mansion was half of the size, I'd would be better - for me. Maybe I'm just not used to this types of missions...

Anyway, good luck with the other FM's.

#29 Fidcal

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Posted 02 April 2010 - 05:24 AM

Well I'm going to continue later but I agree that just expanding rooms to double size doesn't really add anything for me. But then I like the tight crooks and nannies of say Bikerdude's FM(s?).

This is not meant to be too critical but feedback because I know what a lot of work goes into making and finishing an FM. But it's the lockpicking that is the killer for me and I LOVE lockpicking. 3, 4, 5, even SIX tumblers (with many pins) on virtually every door that leads to an empty room. This is the first time I've got tired of lockpicking and switched to auto and just held my finger down. Hopefully I'm through the majority of those. I recommend using ONE tumbler on most locks and only use several one those special locks. You gotta get a 'reward' for picking a lock too, not just an empty room or chest.

I liked the start area and the way in and loads of stuff until I came to the lockpicking. I was a lot happier when I found the maps then I could make more sense of the layout. I recommend everyone search for the maps as a 'purpose' to add a little incentive.

I think where I got to I was stuck with the same objectives as The Elusive One above but I'd not exhausted all the possibilities yet. I'll get going again today and see what else I can find. :)

#30 stumpy

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Posted 02 April 2010 - 07:23 AM

@ the elusive one

Spoiler


@everyone else too stuck to carry on

maps

Spoiler


objectives complete solutions, except one.

Spoiler


theres enough loot in plain sight to complete all loot objectives, some of the paintings can be looted.

This wasn't planned to be a mission I just thought I'lled try out the dark mod editor.

Edited by stumpy, 02 April 2010 - 07:54 AM.


#31 The Elusive One

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Posted 02 April 2010 - 07:51 AM

@ the elusive one

Spoiler


Thanks Stumpy, but you didn't answer my main question regarding the objective. Where/How do i find the out what officially happened to Lord Dufford?

Regarding the great hall:
Spoiler


#32 raymeld

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Posted 02 April 2010 - 01:03 PM

Thanks Stumpy, but you didn't answer my main question regarding the objective. Where/How do i find the out what officially happened to Lord Dufford?

Regarding the great hall:

Spoiler



I found Lord Dufford
Spoiler
Agree with other posters regarding overdone locks and doors. However , I take Stumpy's point about this not having been intended as a mission to start with. Still like it enough not to give up on it and when some of the outside streets and castle are more populated think the layout will make some great missions. Thank you Stumpy for all the work you must have put into this..

#33 Goldchocobo

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Posted 02 April 2010 - 01:49 PM

This map is definitely a love hate relationship for me. I love the story and readables, but disliked the lack of guards and insane amount of lock picking. The writing was decent, and the story intriguing enough to keep me going, but sort of became the only motivator for the level. I will admit though, the multiple break in points, and sewers were super cool.
It was definitely a very strong first mission! I can only imagine the amount of work that went into it... I remember my first mission, lol, what a desperate attempt that was :laugh:!

#34 Springheel

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Posted 02 April 2010 - 08:24 PM

I have tremendous respect for anyone that actually finishes a mission--I know how much effort it takes.

I particularly enjoyed the water wheel and the falling water you created...that was a nice touch. As well, the gap in the boards near the
Spoiler
, although I wish there had been a guard or something interesting to see there. The
Spoiler
were a neat touch. I liked the effort you put into the briefing (though having someone proof-read them would have been a good idea).

For the purposes of helping you improve your next mission, some critiques:

1. The mansion rooms feel FAR too barren. It's ok to make rooms large if they look lived in, but the majority of each room is totally empty. Few of the rooms seemed to have any obvious purpose.

2. The textures seemed to be all over the place, without any real thought. The interior mansion doors used very old, weather-stained wood; soom rooms would have marble walls but old wooden floors and other rooms that were supposedly bedrooms would have cobblestone floors. Picking some kind of unified texture palette is a good idea.

3. Not enough AI. Others have mentioned this, but it gets boring to wander around maps when there is no threat. I haven't finished the map, but I've gone through about half of the mansion and city area and still seen only two or three AI. Not to mention that I have yet to find a single piece of loot.

4. This might be personal taste, but I really disliked the readables posted in the city. The bit
Spoiler
, among others, just completely destroyed my suspension of disbelief. It's hard to take a mission seriously if the first readables you encounter are played for laughs. (I also had a hard time accepting the
Spoiler
bit, but you're well within your rights to put your mission in an alternate, high fantasy setting). Maybe some kind of clear warning in advance that it's not the TDM setting would help players get prepared...when I saw the bit about the fire breathing dragon in the objectives, I had to do a double-take.

5. Others have covered the lockpicking...in general, lockpicking without any sense of threat (a patrolling guard) becomes tedious VERY quickly.

Anyway, thanks for releasing this mission, and I do hope you plan on creating another one! :)

#35 stumpy

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Posted 02 April 2010 - 08:30 PM

rafters

Spoiler


so I should stick the lockpicking to one or two pins and three pins for difficult locks, there isn't anything in the wiki about whats the best setting for lockpicking, I suppose as maps get bigger and with more stuff in them, that lockpicking will get more irratating with too many pins, seeing as the random jiggling locking handle is random.

what officially happened to lord dufford

Spoiler


#36 Slither

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Posted 02 April 2010 - 11:20 PM

I, also, got stuck in the sewers like an earlier poster because I didn't open the sewers before falling into them. I was under the impression from the briefing that there were multiple ways inside and I wasn't required to open the sewers. Whoops. I'd have to blame this on design rather than player-fault. Give us a way to open the sewers from the inside.

I've seen some criticism that the map is too big; I disagree. It feels big and empty because, well, that's part of the plot. It could have been made a little more interesting, though. I know the guy was hitting hard times, but jeez, did he sell most of his furniture... or maybe burn it for heat? And given the state of emptiness, I'd think the guards would be much more likely to slack off. It would add a bit of atmosphere, too. 

I'm also getting a graphic anomaly of a red line in the skybox above me. It doesn't hurt anything, but it's rather annoying. Speaking of the outside... maybe just a few of the houses could be entered for the pilfering of some goodies, just to make those vast streets a bit more alive.

Oh, and the grammar and spelling is a bit dicey. It took me a second glance to figure out what "whoes" was in the quote given in the load screen. My first thought was "whores." That's not the only problem spot, but it was one of the more amusing.

Big mission. Obviously a lot of work, but it could use a few more passes to flesh it out. It felt like a beta. Lots of potential. The map, although empty, felt like a real place with enough room for all the people there.

Edited by Slither, 02 April 2010 - 11:22 PM.


#37 Fidcal

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 01:27 AM

so I should stick the lockpicking to one or two pins and three pins for difficult locks, there isn't anything in the wiki about whats the best setting for lockpicking...


It mentions this in the Doors article on the wiki but it is rather lost in a paragraph and might be better emphasised:

The above is a difficult lock and to avoid annoying the player it is best only used rarely on a special lock like an important big vault door. Ordinary footlockers and common doors can be just 1 or 2 click sequences.


There is a lot of stuff to learn so it's not surprising we all miss things.

#38 stumpy

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 10:53 AM

if anyones complaining about the grammer then this is written in medieval english can you actually read it.

And ŝis monke tuke not his confession̛ tendirlie, bod chiddid̛ hy[m], & flate with hym̛, & said̛ he was vnworthi to be a monke & for to bere ŝe name of ŝer ordur, becauce he feƚƚ so lightlie vnto flesshlie temptacion̛; To so mekuƚƚ att, when̛ ŝai war partid, ŝis y[ong]er monke began̛ to faƚƚ in a despare, So ŝat on̛ a nyght he gat hym̛ se[cular] wede, & stale away oute of his ceƚƚ, and liffid as a seculer̛ man̛ in ŝe werld̛. So on̛ a ty[me] as he went be ŝe way, it happend̛ be ŝe dispensacion̛ of almiȝti God̛, hym̛ happend̛ to mete with ane abbott ŝat hight Appollinius, whilk ŝat knew ŝe cauce of his gate oute of his ordur, whilk abbott comfurthid hym̛ with fayr wurdis, and said vnto hym̛ ŝus: "turn̛ agayn̛, brother, vnto ŝi seƚƚ, & hafe no merveƚƚ at ŝou, at is a yong man̛, be tempid̛ with syn̛, ffor I my selfe, now in myne olde age, is hugelie tempid with ŝe same syn̛." So, ŝurgℏ his comfurthable wurdis, ŝis monke turnyd agayn̛ vnto his ceƚƚ.

it basically says

And this monk took not his confession tenderly, --- --------'--- and --- with him, and said he was unworthy to be a monk and for to bare the name of the order, because he fell so lightly unto fleshly temptation; To so ------ at, when they were partied, this young monk began to fall in a
dispair, so that one night he got him's ----, and stole away out of his cell, and ----- as a secular man in the world. So one time as he
went to the way, it happened be the dispension of almighty god, him happened to meet with an abbot that

the whoes was written by a pagan whos english was never taught to him, so asking for everything to be written in english, is picky as english is actually only spoken in england, if you aint from england then the english your speaking isnt english.

#39 Slither

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 12:11 PM

if anyones complaining about the grammer then this is written in medieval english can you actually read it.

And þis monke tuke not his confession̛ tendirlie, bod chiddid̛ hy[m], & flate with hym̛, & said̛ he was vnworthi to be a monke & for to bere þe name of þer ordur, becauce he feƚƚ so lightlie vnto flesshlie temptacion̛; To so mekuƚƚ att, when̛ þai war partid, þis y[ong]er monke began̛ to faƚƚ in a despare, So þat on̛ a nyght he gat hym̛ se[cular] wede, & stale away oute of his ceƚƚ, and liffid as a seculer̛ man̛ in þe werld̛. So on̛ a ty[me] as he went be þe way, it happend̛ be þe dispensacion̛ of almiȝti God̛, hym̛ happend̛ to mete with ane abbott þat hight Appollinius, whilk þat knew þe cauce of his gate oute of his ordur, whilk abbott comfurthid hym̛ with fayr wurdis, and said vnto hym̛ þus: "turn̛ agayn̛, brother, vnto þi seƚƚ, & hafe no merveƚƚ at þou, at is a yong man̛, be tempid̛ with syn̛, ffor I my selfe, now in myne olde age, is hugelie tempid with þe same syn̛." So, þurgℏ his comfurthable wurdis, þis monke turnyd agayn̛ vnto his ceƚƚ.

it basically says

And this monk took not his confession tenderly, --- --------'--- and --- with him, and said he was unworthy to be a monk and for to bare the name of the order, because he fell so lightly unto fleshly temptation; To so ------ at, when they were partied, this young monk began to fall in a
dispair, so that one night he got him's ----, and stole away out of his cell, and ----- as a secular man in the world. So one time as he
went to the way, it happened be the dispension of almighty god, him happened to meet with an abbot that

the whoes was written by a pagan whos english was never taught to him, so asking for everything to be written in english, is picky as english is actually only spoken in england, if you aint from england then the english your speaking isnt english.

Whoa, take it easy dude. Save your angst for your teachers. I have a degree in English, but not the Medieval variant (capital "M," if you want to nit-pick). So, kudos to you for being a smarty pants. Why do so many people in forums get their panties in a bunch when the word "grammar" is used? (It's "ar," by the way.) So you're getting twisted because ONE WORD was written in Medieval English? Really? How about the rest of it? It couldn't have POSSIBLY been a typo for "whose," could it? How silly of me. I had no idea the briefing was doffing its hat at Medieval English, so bad on me. How about comma splices in the briefing? Or are they clever jests, winking in the direction of Medieval English that I'm not getting? How is the reader supposed to know the education level and history of the briefing's writer?

I normally don't care much about this stuff in a fan mission, but I was pointing it out because I thought the author would be going through the mission again at some later date. Just trying help. Believe it or not, in a written medium, grammar and spelling do matter.

Now, non-English FM writers get a pass -- so don't play that card. If this FM author was non-English speaking and unsure about the wacky English rules, then no problem. This wasn't a personal indictment. He made a good mission, but writing is part of it too. That's what sets Thief on a slightly higher level than most games. 
Edit: I see "Stumpy" is the FM author. OK. So wherever I state "FM author," insert "Stumpy" or "you." The mission has FANTASTIC potential. Like I said, the layout was very well done. I really hope you'll take note of what the folks have posted here and tweak it a bit.

Edited by Slither, 03 April 2010 - 12:16 PM.


#40 silent ghost

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 12:30 PM

It Downloaded and Ran fine for me.. great job making this map! Posted Image



#41 Springheel

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 08:30 PM

One fairly significant bug I've encountered: at least two of the AI I've run into do not make any footstep noise. Their walk is completely silent, even on different types of floor.

I had this happen in another map once too, where a single AI did not make footstep sounds. Anyone else notice this?

#42 stumpy

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Posted 04 April 2010 - 05:54 PM

It might be because in some sections AI are walking on monster clip. AI refused to walk up/down stairs without it, and also refused to walk up/down slopes, one slope was a patch, and even with monster clip on it the AI still refused to walk on it so it became a 'v' altered cube.

#43 Springheel

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Posted 04 April 2010 - 06:49 PM

That's possible, though the examples I noticed were with AI walking on regular floors.

#44 id3839315

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Posted 05 April 2010 - 04:57 AM

This is a real Easter fan mission because it's not listed on http://www.mindplace...od/missions.php and you have to search for it here. ;)
I think the map is a bit oversized and there could be more hints in the mission.

Edited by id3839315, 05 April 2010 - 06:22 AM.


#45 PranQster

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Posted 06 April 2010 - 09:57 PM

Thank you for making this FM. It has great potential and I hope it continues to get worked on. I would love to see a well polished version of this mission with the critiques posted here (this forum) taken into account.

I agree that the notes with the Jamaican-style dialect seem very out of place (and time). Also, people around the world were smoking cannabis a long, long, long time before there were Caribbean islanders doing so. Those notes read like a bad stereotype... almost like "Jar Jar Binks" in the Star Wars movies.

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#46 aidakeeley

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Posted 07 April 2010 - 03:49 AM

I find the expansive layout a really nice change of pace, and it makes for some more challenging and/or different game play. Much appreciated.

I also am so impressed with the fact that this FM seemed to have come out of nowhere! Quite impressive for the author. Quite impressive for the engine/toolset.

There is much to like here. Thanks!
"A Rhapsody Of Feigned And Ill-Invented Nonsense" - Thomas Aikenhead, On Theology, ca. 1696

#47 Igor bes Thiefer

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Posted 07 April 2010 - 11:50 AM

How do you "unlock" the lever in the secret entrance from the "4 lion statues" room? its in front of a lord dufford´s message saying "so close yet so far". Yeah, i´ve checked bentley, the cellar, his room, i´ve descended the chain into the bottomless pit room too. lol. So, yeah, maybe someone could post a well-thought of enigma or anagram in order to point me the right direction? Btw, hello you taffers =)

#48 stumpy

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Posted 07 April 2010 - 10:29 PM

you should have picked up a key with the third clue, use key in lock near floor. locks below lever, round the corner from lever.

Edited by stumpy, 07 April 2010 - 10:30 PM.

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#49 Igor bes Thiefer

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Posted 08 April 2010 - 01:37 AM

Oh, a big apology for everyone! i totally forgot to use the "spoiler" tag !Posted Image And big thanks, stumpy, i never saw that coming. I look foward to seeing
Spoiler


#50 aidakeeley

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Posted 08 April 2010 - 02:52 AM

Finished and thought I'd done very well as I didn't need any spoilers. Though, I would have to agree if there has been some criticism about the clues...

Spoiler


Spoiler


Spoiler


Anyway, as I said in my previous post, I was really quite impressed with this. And moreso now that I've seen more... so... there!
"A Rhapsody Of Feigned And Ill-Invented Nonsense" - Thomas Aikenhead, On Theology, ca. 1696




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