Jump to content
The Dark Mod Forums

Things that could be improved


Berny

Recommended Posts

The original idea of Taffer418 was to use holy water on the sword when it is drawn. That way nobody would need to create a new holy sword core weapon, no mapper would need to add it and it would fit in completely with the gameplay mechanics without changing anything. An elegant solution for a more uncivilized age ;)...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The clever game design/fun bit of using water arrows to combat zombies and steam powered bots in Thief was that it ate into your stash of water arrows, which were in demand for other things besides, like stealth. Stealth tools, and water arrows especially, are currency - if you have lots you are powerful and feel safe, if you have few you are weak - there's a nifty economy thing going on where you choose (or get forced into choosing) what to spend your currency on. A sword power-up doesn't do that and I suspect would mostly serve to devalue undeads. Not sure what the stealth focussed mechanic is of an anointed sword of zombie slaying. Unless you got splattered in luminescent green zombie blood or something. But then it stops being a neat, easy to implement, backwards compatible mechanic.

 

It's not a bad idea to be sure and there may be fun to be had hacking 'n' slashing zombies in a novelty mission or two - but I'm not sure how it quite fits into TDM's stealth aspirations and if it's quite core mechanic material.

 

Holy moss arrow zombie traps perhaps?

Edited by jay pettitt
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The clever game design/fun bit of using water arrows to combat zombies and steam powered bots in Thief was that it ate into your stash of water arrows, which were in demand for other things besides, like stealth.

 

I seldom use water arrows at all for stealth. Most of the time you can use the correct timing to get through lighted areas!

 

Holy moss arrow zombie traps perhaps?

 

Great idea, I would like it if it would be implemented but it won't ;). BTW if you think this through and you could use holy

water on the sword you should also be able to use it on broadhead arrows or the black jack or everything else, so seen

logically, the holy water on sword idea does not really make sense. Putting it on water or moss arrows would do though!

Edited by wesp5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Great idea, I would like it if it would be implemented but it won't ;)

 

Water arrows can already be used on moss patches to make them grow....I wonder if a holy water stim would carry over to a moss patch if the player shot the moss with a blessed water arrow. lol Would be funny if it already worked somehow.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Could we please add an md5 checksum field to the XML here: http://missions.thedarkmod.com/get_available_missions.php . I was going to go through and check whether any of my missions need updating ... and the only way will be to download them all anyway! Computing and publishing this is an elementary sanitary precaution anyway when offering a download to ensure you've got what you thought you had.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Could we please add an md5 checksum field to the XML here: http://missions.thed...le_missions.php . I was going to go through and check whether any of my missions need updating ... and the only way will be to download them all anyway! Computing and publishing this is an elementary sanitary precaution anyway when offering a download to ensure you've got what you thought you had.

 

I remember this was discussed recently and got general support and that someone spelt out some of the steps that'd be needed, and it sounds like a good idea that would fix a couple of issues at least, but it got lost in other conversations. It needs and deserves a thread of its own. The download mirrors, the website, and the game code are all looked after by different sets of people, so we'll need to coordinate and work out who would have to do what. A new thread.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

One possible change I've seen mentioned in another thread, it doesn't affect gameplay but would help keep missions up to date.

 

Use MD5's to verify PK4 files are up to date.

 

In order to keep the load at the server and client down, missions.tdminfo could have an extra field defined for MD5 information and a MD5 is computed once when a mission is uploaded to the servers.

 

If this field exists in missions.tdminfo then the value is used as the local MD5, if it doesn't exist a MD5 is computed for the PK4 and added to the missions.tdminfo file.

 

Then, if the local MD5is different to the servers MD5 the mission gets added to the available download list, on download the servers MD5 entry is copied to the local MD5 entry.

 

Araneidae came up with this one http://forums.thedar...post__p__350111

Could we please add an md5 checksum field to the XML here: http://missions.thed...le_missions.php . I was going to go through and check whether any of my missions need updating ... and the only way will be to download them all anyway! Computing and publishing this is an elementary sanitary precaution anyway when offering a download to ensure you've got what you thought you had.

 

Yep if this isn't the right thread I'm all for starting a new one or some kindly moderator copying the relevant posts to the correct thread

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm already building the updated backend for the mission db stuff (using SHA1 instead of MD5 but that's just an implementation detail). Lots of the mission db administration is fairly manual at the moment, so I'm trying to include some automation. The mission db admin should be able to upload a mission once, have the hash calculated automatically, and have the mission pushed out to the mirrors with one click. At the moment, there is no hash, the fm has to be manually uploaded to each mirror and then links added to the db one at a time. I also want the primary server to be able to check for mirror availability and toggle mirrors on and off if they are no longer accessible or have out of date missions (for whatever reason).

I am the bat. The night is mine.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, and quite the same I like the idea and don't get why you don't do it. The arguments about different characters or themes could easily be circumvented, but I do understand that nobody has the time and nerve to do it, because there is the unfinished campaign too...

 

Among many reasons why noone has made one (different time periods, different locations, no fixed map of Bridgeport (most missions seem to take place here), would be that the hub would have to be absolutely enormous. Take the biggest FM you've played, multiply the size of it by lots, and that would be a good start to how much effort (months and months for our best and fastest mappers) it would take to fit in the 80+ missions that exist *now* for TDM. What do you do when a new mission comes out? The hub becomes an endless headache of revisions to fit that extra mission in each time, to remove a couple of entries when a series becomes a campaign, and then the hub itself opens a whole new can of worms. Why aren't there fences I can visit as I wander the hub to sell my spare tools/loot? Why isn't there a defined ruler of Bridgeport, and why can't I find and rob this guy? Where is the main church that the heads of the Builder religion congregate at, my rent is due? Why do I have to spend 45 minutes traversing the hub to find this mission I could load in 10 seconds earlier, this is stupid why did anyone even make a hub when there are this many missions? That's not even going into the performance hell a hub that large would entail, have you got a supercomputer large enough to handle the drain when the perfect storm of cascading barks puts several square kilometers of guards on alert, even if the poor sod making the hub has been utterly ruthless and mindful of using interleaved thinking (with the accompanying network of trigger brushes to change which guards are interleaved x and which are interleaved y) settings?

 

Get it yet? It would be the most thankless task I can imagine for someone. I don't even say that to be mean, I really enjoyed your patch for Bloodlines (when it didn't crash, I played a somewhat early version a few years back), all people are trying to say here is that the hub you are proposing isn't Santa Monica.. it's the whole city the Santa Monica hub exists in. If you want one that badly, we'll see you in 2-3 years when you're done.

Edited by Xarg

Intel Sandy Bridge i7 2600K @ 3.4ghz stock clocks
8gb Kingston 1600mhz CL8 XMP RAM stock frequency
Sapphire Radeon HD7870 2GB FLeX GHz Edition @ stock @ 1920x1080

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Among many reasons why noone has made one (different time periods, different locations, no fixed map of Bridgeport (most missions seem to take place here), would be that the hub would have to be absolutely enormous. Take the biggest FM you've played, multiply the size of it by lots, and that would be a good start to how much effort (months and months for our best and fastest mappers) it would take to fit in the 80+ missions that exist *now* for TDM.

 

Besides that a main hub wasn't even my idea, you are thinking much larger than I am. As I already wrote, I would rather see it as a bigger training mission with maybe St. Lucia and the campaign included once it is finished. I would never dream about having all the FMs starting inside the hub! If someone wants a main hub like this, I would be the first to claim that this is ridiculous. My idea of adding the FMs would either be via main menu, as I wrote before, or if you really want to start them from inside the hub, from some kind of job board in a Thief's guild or near a fence.

 

As for the map server MD5 issues and automation, I'm all for it! Taaaki, can you rename all left over series missions so they can be recognized and automatically replace the non-series versions? Oh, and would you be the right guy to add some more informaton, like a player score or difficulty or similar in a colour coded system like I suggested here recently?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My apologies, it seems I misunderstood what you meant by hub, as the nightmare scenario I outlined above has been suggested a few times before. Having a bigger training mission hub, with the mission list as a job board would be pretty neat, kinda like the crime.net laptop in the safehouse in Payday 2. Having St Lucia's hanging off it as a test of what you've practiced would be pretty neat as well, come to think of it. Now that I understand where you were coming from, please disregard what I said above :blush:

Intel Sandy Bridge i7 2600K @ 3.4ghz stock clocks
8gb Kingston 1600mhz CL8 XMP RAM stock frequency
Sapphire Radeon HD7870 2GB FLeX GHz Edition @ stock @ 1920x1080

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As for the map server MD5 issues and automation, I'm all for it! Taaaki, can you rename all left over series missions so they can be recognized and automatically replace the non-series versions? Oh, and would you be the right guy to add some more informaton, like a player score or difficulty or similar in a colour coded system like I suggested here recently?

 

At first, I just want to get it working nicely and relieve some of bikerdude's mission admin headaches. I guess we can handle the renaming when we migrate the missions to the new db. Player ratings were discussed and we're keen to do it. I don't think that we settled on exactly how. We can pre-populate certain mission ratings based on the ratings from the forums threads, but it would be nice to allow players to rate a mission after playing it. But there are some issues with collecting player ratings like ensuring that each user only gets 1 vote, etc. (maybe try some SSO thing and link it to forum account). But yeah, I'm trying to make the system extensible enough to cater for these requirements.

  • Like 1

I am the bat. The night is mine.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't care much about a hub, but I do think it's worthwhile to start up a mapping project to map the city of Bridgeport out of the FMs we have now, like the old Thief mapping project, just as a fan project. I don't know how far it could get, but it'd be an interesting exercise just to make the attempt IMO. I think whatever map came out of it, including the compilation of information from FMs in a doc, would be great inspiration fodder for mappers.

What do you see when you turn out the light? I can't tell you but I know that it's mine.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Having a bigger training mission hub, with the mission list as a job board would be pretty neat, kinda like the crime.net laptop in the safehouse in Payday 2. Having St Lucia's hanging off it as a test of what you've practiced would be pretty neat as well

 

That's exactly how I would like to see it and it would finish all the TDM is not a game BS for good! Still I am no mapper and we would need someone to actually create this. Shouldn't be impossible though because a lot is already there...

Edited by wesp5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

But there are some issues with collecting player ratings like ensuring that each user only gets 1 vote, etc. (maybe try some SSO thing and link it to forum account).

 

That's why I would suggest to start with a player only voting system first. If that gets accepted you can always sort the issues with a public vote system out later :)!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah, I'm not sure I follow either. I'm fairly certain that we only want to give the voting ability for a particular mission to people who've actually played said mission. And the exact method of uniquely identifying a player is the problem at hand here. Any other kind of system would be open to abuse and vote rigging (either to "trash" a mission or push one to the top of the ratings).

I am the bat. The night is mine.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The closest you can get to ensuring that a player has played the mission is to add a voting screen after the Mission Success screen. In this way, you're somewhat sure the person actually played the mission.

 

But even that has problems:

 

1 - Saving a mission just before the end and passing the savegame to your friends, so they can vote.

 

2 - Someone gets upset with the mission and quits playing. They have no way to cast a vote.

 

I'm not really in agreement with all this voting business. There are too many opportunities for gaming the ratings, one person's favorite mission is another person's most reviled, and in no way do we want authors whose missions might be at the bottom of the rankings giving up on mapping altogether. Every mission is a blessing.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

What is the difference between player and public?

 

Hm, I meant that only the player locally votes for a mission he plays. No online voting needed at all, just a reminder for later which mission one liked the best! These votings could then be uploaded and compared or listed, if one wishes, but I agree with you that moving online votes into the mission list might cause problems.

Edited by wesp5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

This voting stuff has been discussed before and it always ended the same. Too much possible problems, too less benefit.

 

I can only repeat what I've said before everytime this comes up: Play'em all!!!!!!

FM's: Builder Roads, Old Habits, Old Habits Rebuild

Mapping and Scripting: Apples and Peaches

Sculptris Models and Tutorials: Obsttortes Models

My wiki articles: Obstipedia

Texture Blending in DR: DR ASE Blend Exporter

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's exactly how I would like to see it and it would finish all the TDM is not a game BS for good! Still I am no mapper and we would need someone to actually create this. Shouldn't be impossible though because a lot is already there...

 

It should be relatively easy, the way I would do it is merge both maps, and have 2 exits. You can either exit the mission after training, or proceed on to St Lucia's. What I would also do however, is have a door leading out of the training area to the start of St Lucia's, so that anyone not wishing to do the training mission could immediately start St Lucia's. You'd probably want to skip the shop as the training level has supplies of arrows already on it (and healing potions from memory, which could make St Lucia's very easy, probably swap those for something else, like low value loot). That said, this would still require someone to want to do this, and I'd understand if noone wanted to do it, it just seems to me it wouldn't be terribly difficult to do it.

Intel Sandy Bridge i7 2600K @ 3.4ghz stock clocks
8gb Kingston 1600mhz CL8 XMP RAM stock frequency
Sapphire Radeon HD7870 2GB FLeX GHz Edition @ stock @ 1920x1080

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I can only repeat what I've said before everytime this comes up: Play'em all!!!!!!

I'd still love some way of keeping track, in game, what I thought of each mission, particulary after I've played 'em all, so I can figure out which ones to play again (or which ones were really not worth looking at ever again, not so many of those, am glad to say).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recent Status Updates

    • Petike the Taffer  »  DeTeEff

      I've updated the articles for your FMs and your author category at the wiki. Your newer nickname (DeTeEff) now comes first, and the one in parentheses is your older nickname (Fieldmedic). Just to avoid confusing people who played your FMs years ago and remember your older nickname. I've added a wiki article for your latest FM, Who Watches the Watcher?, as part of my current updating efforts. Unless I overlooked something, you have five different FMs so far.
      · 0 replies
    • Petike the Taffer

      I've finally managed to log in to The Dark Mod Wiki. I'm back in the saddle and before the holidays start in full, I'll be adding a few new FM articles and doing other updates. Written in Stone is already done.
      · 4 replies
    • nbohr1more

      TDM 15th Anniversary Contest is now active! Please declare your participation: https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/22413-the-dark-mod-15th-anniversary-contest-entry-thread/
       
      · 0 replies
    • JackFarmer

      @TheUnbeholden
      You cannot receive PMs. Could you please be so kind and check your mailbox if it is full (or maybe you switched off the function)?
      · 1 reply
    • OrbWeaver

      I like the new frob highlight but it would nice if it was less "flickery" while moving over objects (especially barred metal doors).
      · 4 replies
×
×
  • Create New...