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Fan Mission: The Beleaguered Fence by Sotha (2010/06/23)


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Poll: Fan Mission: The Beleaguered Fence by Sotha (2010/06/23) (47 member(s) have cast votes)

1. Gameplay: Enjoyment. Fun duration. Smooth flow, ect. Versus Bugs. Frustration, Boredom, framelag

  1. Poor (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  2. Tolerable (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  3. Good (13 votes [27.66%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 27.66%

  4. Excellent (25 votes [53.19%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 53.19%

  5. Near Perfect (9 votes [19.15%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 19.15%

2. Appearance: Visual pleasure, lighting, visual style, deduct bad texturing etc.

  1. Poor (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  2. Tolerable (3 votes [6.38%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 6.38%

  3. Good (14 votes [29.79%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 29.79%

  4. Excellent (27 votes [57.45%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 57.45%

  5. Near Perfect (3 votes [6.38%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 6.38%

3. Story & Text: Story. Text. Briefing. Graphic storytelling

  1. Poor (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  2. Tolerable (4 votes [8.51%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 8.51%

  3. Good (14 votes [29.79%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 29.79%

  4. Excellent (22 votes [46.81%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 46.81%

  5. Near Perfect (7 votes [14.89%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 14.89%

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#76 DeathStage_12

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Posted 13 July 2010 - 12:13 AM

Just finished this beauty up. Thanks, Sotha, this was a very nice and fun mission. I loved the story and thought that the AI patrols were very well done, and you gave lots of niches for hiding.

Thought I'd share a funny...
Spoiler


Very very nice...
-DS:12
--- Author of:

Tomb of Horrors (coming January 2011)

#77 olgeezer

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Posted 13 July 2010 - 12:29 AM

Man I feel like a real idiot. I cannot for the life of me find the keys for the evidence room. (which is where I hope I'll get my tools!). I found the note saying someone had lost it but it seems like I've scoured every room, and can't find the damn thing. Even went back outside looking around for it. A little nudge would be nice. Posted Image

Spoiler



I'm playing on hard, and when it says hard in this mission it means it! But in a good way. The AI seems to go in every room and to me anyways, seem to go in them at random times, which makes for some very tense situations.

#78 Sotha

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Posted 13 July 2010 - 12:49 AM

@Olgeezer
Spoiler

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#79 Baddcog

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Posted 13 July 2010 - 08:37 PM

I like the fact that all doors could be picked.

Maybe this is the way all maps should be, with the exception of certain high security doors/safes... A rich guy could afford a non-pickable lock (and good for an objective) but most locks wouldn't be too hi-tech, especially for a mster thief such as our unmaned(?) hero.

Though on expert seeing the lockpicks in the store makes you feel as if you'll be naked without them (not realizing I'd find some i bought them) and there wasn't enough money left over for anything else besides water arrows.
10 g more would've been great imo, it would have afforded me lockpicks, water arrows and one more item... I like to have water and moss arrows, and I was really tempted to go for the map but thought lockpicks were needed more.

That was my initial impression in the store anyway, but by the end of the game I didn't need more anyway...
-------------

Unfortunately I had to go back a few saves. Once I had released the prisoners all hell broke loose and the guards would never calm down.
At first I thought maybe you had possibly made them go alert when seeing the prisoners other than default but later (in a no-prisoner released game) a guard saw me, and although I got away he never calmed down either. So I think this is more a mod-wise AI thing.
-------------

All in all I thought it was a pretty cool mission, 45 minutes and short 500 loot. Not sure how I missed that much but I think I read a post about something well hidden.

Looking foward to your next one.
Dark is the sway that mows like a harvest

#80 Fidcal

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Posted 13 July 2010 - 11:37 PM

The loot in this FM is quite creatively placed so while it is reasonable to finish the objectives it take some time to find it all. Probably how all FMs should be.

#81 olgeezer

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 12:23 AM

Wow! This mission is fantastic.

Spoiler



Anyway, thanks for this awesome mission. TDM just keeps getting better and better.

BTW; Noticed some strange AI behavior in this one, and most others as well. Must be a TDM thing. But had never seen this before and it was actually pretty funny. Several times in this mission a guard would sit on his sword instead of a chair, which was always nearby. And the sharp end was up his ass!

#82 Sotha

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 12:52 AM

Many thanks! The sitting problem is indeed a general AI bug, which is tracked in the bugtracker.
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#83 olgeezer

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 02:28 PM

Ok couple more questions.

Spoiler



I've avoided reading spoilers in this thread, so if my questions have been answered prior to this, I apologize. I have to say, this is my favorite mission to this point for TDM, (even though I've yet to get Butternut out), and that's saying a lot, because I've found them all very good. I found it very difficult, but in a good way. Great readables, tons of tension, and even some occult stuff. Fantastic!


I agree there should be a sequel.

#84 nbohr1more

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 02:32 PM

There's a reason why even master Fidcal begged to play Sotha's beta contest entry... Sotha knows game-play. :)
Please visit TDM's IndieDB site and help promote the mod:

http://www.indiedb.c...ds/the-dark-mod

(Yeah, shameless promotion... but traffic is traffic folks...)

#85 Sotha

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 12:56 AM

Ok couple more questions.

Spoiler


Spoiler


Spoiler



I've avoided reading spoilers in this thread, so if my questions have been answered prior to this, I apologize. I have to say, this is my favorite mission to this point for TDM, (even though I've yet to get Butternut out), and that's saying a lot, because I've found them all very good. I found it very difficult, but in a good way. Great readables, tons of tension, and even some occult stuff. Fantastic!


I agree there should be a sequel.


Thank you very much. It is really nice to see my hard work appreciated.

This mission has received so positive feedback that I'm slowly getting more nervous whether or not the sequel (The Glenham Tower) can reach the same kind of reception from the community. :o
Clipper
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#86 olgeezer

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 10:33 PM

Thanks for the help.

I've finished the mission and can't believe the amount of gameplay in a 10MB download. Amazing. Very reminiscent of T1.

Although getting my sorry ass out of there with my cohort was very hard.

So.... We can expect The Glenham Tower to be released tomorrow? Haha.





#87 Sotha

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Posted 16 July 2010 - 04:31 AM

So.... We can expect The Glenham Tower to be released tomorrow? Haha.


Well, actually.....

But let's see.. ;)
Clipper
-The mapper's best friend.

#88 Sotha

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Posted 18 July 2010 - 03:31 AM

From "The Things that could me improved" -thread:

Can't we introduce a quality rating system for the maps?

So new players w/could play the very best maps at first which would let the mod look more attractive!


In reaction to this, I've added a poll so people can rate this mission.
If you've played this mission already, please take a moment to fill the rating. I'd be nice if the results would help new players to decide whether to play this mission or not.
Clipper
-The mapper's best friend.

#89 Maethius

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 11:07 AM

Wonderful mission! I think more people should use the poll at the beginning of this thread to help you and others know how good it is. ;)

I loved the whole jailbreak theme... nice to not always be looting someone's something sometimes. :D

A few thingies (questions and notes):

Spoiler


Spoiler


Spoiler


Pet peeve, but not a deal breaker...
Spoiler


About that...
Spoiler


I also liked
Spoiler


All in all, excellent fun!
Posted Image

#90 Sotha

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 03:10 PM

Hi! I'm glad you enjoyed the mission and thanks for voting.

Spoiler


Spoiler


Pet peeve, but not a deal breaker...

Spoiler


Spoiler

All in all, excellent fun!


Thank you!:)
Clipper
-The mapper's best friend.

#91 BrokenArts

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 03:40 PM

I've been playing a bit of catch up on the FM's. I have to say Sotha, I love your style. Anything you make, I'll play it. Keep doing what you are doing. You've got the whole ball of wax, in construction, story, ambients. I love your use of sounds BTW. Well done, and not just looping of the same sound. I do wish authors would get away from looping sounds, its annoying and does nothing for game play. I'd rather have silence than a looping sound. Your use of AI, the patrol patterns. Then the element of surprise, which is always a plus in my book. Its the little things that makes the difference from a good FM to a great FM. Keep up the good work. The ending of this, surprised the hell out of me, loved it. :) The FM's overall keep getting better and better. I find myself looking for more and more now. Its been a pleasure gentlemen. :) You need a tester, look me up. I've been testing over at TTLG for years now as well.

#92 Sotha

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Posted 02 August 2010 - 12:57 AM

I've been playing a bit of catch up on the FM's. I have to say Sotha, I love your style. Anything you make, I'll play it. Keep doing what you are doing. You've got the whole ball of wax, in construction, story, ambients. I love your use of sounds BTW. ..

Sounds like I have my first fan! Thank you very much for your nice feedback in here and in The Glenham Tower thread as well.

I am very pleased that my work has provided you with enjoyable moments. Thanks again! :)
Clipper
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#93 Springheel

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Posted 24 October 2010 - 09:50 PM

I somehow missed this one the first time around, and I'm playing it now. Wow, is it TOUGH. Especially since I didn't buy either lockpicks or rope arrows, making it VERY difficult to get inside (I think I got busted five or six times trying to get in).

I've noticed a large number of AI problems...AI blocking each other at doors, as well as the "AI never ramp down" issue after they killed the prisoners. Also had a weird situation where AI in the barracks spotted a body I dropped, went on alert, and then went out the door and stood facing opposite directions with their swords out, not moving. Was that an intentional alert-node?

Anyway, it's been quite fun, with lots of tense moments, but also lots of reloads.
Spoiler
to look.
TDM Missions:   A Score to Settle   *   A Reputation to Uphold   *   A New Job   *    A Matter of Hours
 
Video Series:   Springheel's Modules   *   Speedbuild Challenge   *   New Mappers Workshop  *   Building Traps

#94 Sotha

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Posted 25 October 2010 - 12:32 AM

I somehow missed this one the first time around, and I'm playing it now. Wow, is it TOUGH. Especially since I didn't buy either lockpicks or rope arrows, making it VERY difficult to get inside (I think I got busted five or six times trying to get in).


Heh.. Well, going in without lockpicks, of course it's tough. It is far easier with them.

I've noticed a large number of AI problems...AI blocking each other at doors, as well as the "AI never ramp down" issue after they killed the prisoners. Also had a weird situation where AI in the barracks spotted a body I dropped, went on alert, and then went out the door and stood facing opposite directions with their swords out, not moving. Was that an intentional alert-node?


All the weirdness the AI does is due to AI coding. The map does not contain any special AI pointers, just path_corners, path_waits and path_sits. Oh, and the fleepoints for the prisoners and the guards.
I've also noticed in my current WIP map that sometimes (rather rarely) alerted AI just stop and stand at a fixed point doing nothing forever with their swords drawn. Bug (hard to reproduce)?

EDIT: Now that I think about it, I think the guards in the barracks were set sleeping. If they get alerted badly enough, they won't go back to sleep, but simply stop in their position after the alert level has dropped? Not sure.

Anyway, it's been quite fun, with lots of tense moments, but also lots of reloads.

Spoiler
to look.


With this I agree. I kinda learned this the hard way and it is mentioned in my FM design tips wiki article so others do not make the same blunder.
Clipper
-The mapper's best friend.

#95 Ishtvan

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Posted 06 November 2010 - 12:34 AM

I just got around to playing this as well, and now I can't wait to play Glenham Tower! Excellent overall, really liked the readables and gameplay.

Spoiler


Some minor/major bugs, probably mod-wide but I put in spoilers since they deal with specific situations here:
Spoiler


EDIT: Also pretty cool:
Spoiler


#96 pmw57

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Posted 14 November 2010 - 07:51 PM

Spoiler


I don't know if this was a coincidence, but
Spoiler


That might be a useful mechanism by which things like that are dealt with.




#97 pmw57

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Posted 14 November 2010 - 07:53 PM

The loot list for this mission has now been put together.

#98 LEGION

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Posted 28 December 2010 - 05:40 AM

Only four pages for this über-mission? :blink:

Before I forget: If I would´ve been a beta-tester for this map I would´ve suggested to create an objective for
Spoiler


Before I get into my voting,
first the quoting!
(hey, that rhymes!)

Please, sir! No more! I'll tell ye where yer friend is!

ROTFL :laugh:

Spoiler
Great mission Sotha! Thanks!

:laugh:

Spoiler


My mapping philosophy is:
1) There will be no mission jamming hunts for keys in illogical places. Do not drag the player through the mission the way mapper intended. Let the player go where he/she wants.
2) All doors should be pickable, but having a key is a nice convenience and rewards the player with much easier and silent access.

Spoiler

I´m with you with all of this, Sotha! :wub:

I'm playing on hard, and when it says hard in this mission it means it! But in a good way. The AI seems to go in every room and to me anyways, seem to go in them at random times, which makes for some very tense situations.

Damn, after I couldn´t find that damn
Spoiler
at the beginning I thought "This is going to be very frustrating, so I better take out everyone. And so I did. I played on Hard too and I´m eager to ghost on Expert, äh, Difficult. Are there more AI´s on Difficult? Or any difference besides the objectives?

BTW; Noticed some strange AI behavior in this one, and most others as well. Must be a TDM thing. But had never seen this before and it was actually pretty funny. Several times in this mission a guard would sit on his sword instead of a chair, which was always nearby. And the sharp end was up his ass!

Hey, screenshot please!! :blink:


Spoiler

Well, I only found the mentioned window from the inside, but the autoclosing-time felt near perfect! "Could´ve also been the wind I guess..."
F.e., the autoclosing-times in Cathedral of St.Alban were much too short.


Spoiler
to look.

Well, that key I found very quickly: I blackjacked the patrolling guard in that hallway and dumped him into that room. And at that moment I spotted the key. :blush:

Alright, now my voting:


Gameplay: Excellent

This is one of or the most/best balanced FM´s I played so far for TDM and I played nearly all of `em! While ghosting apparently is very hard, blackjacking wasn´t. Enough spots to hide, believable/atmospheric Gameplay/areas, also not one frustrating map-caused element besides the starting area: There I felt lost. Great that there was a map provided, but sadly only for the stronghold itself and no indication for an possible entry point. The briefing spoke of the
Spoiler
but that confused only more because that area is not accessible from the streets. (the player will find out why later though)
Spoiler
Sotha´s mapping philosophy provides lots of keys without the need for really finding (most of) them, that alone is a standard that should be taught in the wiki (if it isn´t already in the meantime) for making great non-frustrating missions. The puzzles were hard, but the hints were very good too, and not too easy but still I managed to solve it without scanning this thread after some searching time. Also to mention that it´s possible to solve an objective while failing the puzzle related to it, at a cost of course. This is great for replay-ability and non-puzzle-likers. (is that a word?) If I would´ve ghosted this mission I could tell more about Gameplay I guess, but I didn´t, but will soon. GREAT MISSION, Sotha! I adore you for your talent. There was no flaw to be seen, without the tricky start but well, three ways to get in with each providing different difficulties is more than most missions offer, right? :)


Appearance: Excellent

This is the first mission I really played in TDMv1.03 but looking at the other votings it must´ve been nearly a blast before as it was now! (Yeah, I´m late, as always) Everything looked damn believable, I can´t complain about nothing (not even that 'infamous' vent, I don´t noticed that). The different lighting made it a showcase-mission with one downside: The dynamic ambient lighting. It only made sense (and was very good indeed) in the
Spoiler
. But the really dark setting for the inside-areas made me re-adjust my gamma-setting again though I had tweaked it for nearly three days recently. The outside-area in the streets felt right, but as soon as one gets into an inside-area (stronghold or apartment) the ambient light was nearly pitch black. I ended up binding a key with 'toggle r_gamma 1.25 1.12' to solve that issue. If the light-settings would´ve been better tweaked it would´ve added for the atmosphere, no question. (still glad you used it, never noticed Dynamic Ambient Light before) The switching-time felt also too short. Only for the
Spoiler
the time-period was fine. Felt like the eyes are getting used to the new surrounding light.
Some architectural spots were even stunning, you don´t have to hide behind Bikerdude, the optical quality of this mission is awesome and mixed with the excellent gameplay/story, well :wub: ...


Story & Text: Excellent

Spoiler
You deserve an extra praise for you hint-writing! Felt perfectly balanced.
Spoiler



The Conclusion: Show-case-Mission for TheDarkMod that everyone should play as one of the first TDM-FM´s. The design should fit most if not everyone´s needs! :all-available-thumps-up: :)

Extra-note
: Sotha, so far you´re the master of Ambiance! Not even once I could hear the fan of my GPU! That concludes that there was NOT ONE silent boring unbelievable moment! I THANK YOU for that! The Ambiance-tracks were damn well chosen and the best were the 'random-ambiance'-setups, you should write an wiki-article about that technique if it doesn´t already exists! Really, even as I reloaded after I got aware that I forgot the
Spoiler
, I was instantly sucked in again! Great Atmosphere, very nice selection of ambient-sounds and it never felt too much/less! I as an Ambiance Addict can´t thank you enough and I hope that this praise will influence other mappers to learn from what you´ve shown here... :wub: (That must be the second or third time I use this smiley for you, and I HATE that smiley...)


To make this an even more spamming post:

The Notes-section: (to avoid that my post fills one single forum-page I put the notes into a spoiler. But actually, there are really spoiler in here!)

Spoiler


Phew, if I had lost this post I wouldn´t had wrote a single word I guess... :laugh: *I´m still hoping that I can post this and nothing happens, damn Windows*

edit: Yeah, success. Now I have to reboot and I´m hungry. And don´t ask me how long it took to write all this... *damn-non-existing-social-life*

Edited by LEGION, 28 December 2010 - 05:42 AM.


#99 Sotha

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 04:05 AM

[quote name='LEGION' date='28 December 2010 - 12:40 PM' timestamp='1293532841' post='242517']

[quote]Or any difference besides the objectives?[/quote]

Nope, higher difficulties only mean more things to do. I don't think I'm gonna deviate from this in the future.

No spyglass? I can't remember now, I have to check the map later. If I remember correctly the player needed to buy all gear because the city watch had confiscated Thomas' stuff when Lark was arrested. Can't remember if there was a spyglass in the evidence storage.

I'm really happy you enjoyed the mission.
Clipper
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#100 LEGION

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 04:12 AM

So, anyone recently played BF in TDMv1.02 and had a spyglass? :mellow:

Sotha, I guess that whiteness in the shot is this
Spoiler
, eh?

I hoped youŽd comment on what I said about the DynamicAmbientLighting... :rolleyes: Just say: "Yes, LEGION, youŽre right. I messed that up, but IŽll do better in the future. It really was set too dark." :)




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