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We have become Big Brother


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#1 Fidcal

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Posted 19 August 2010 - 12:52 PM

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"Big Brother is watching you" is becoming a reality. But it's not a totalitarian state dicatorship as was feared. We ourselves are becoming Big Brother, at least, in the guise of commerce. Hard to use the internet without being tracked. New software contains licencing agreements specially designed to be time-consuming and obscure to anyone but a lawyer.

More and more is running in the background without our real consent or knowledge. Adobe Acrobat regularly tries to update on the internet blocked only by my firewall and no easy way to stop it except Task Manager's process ender. The other morning I booted up to a nag from Adobe about Flash updates. I could see nothing in Task Manager's processes. The changing licencing agreements are stored on the internet in pdf format to make them even more difficult to decipher. I declined. I just don't have the time to find out if I'm to be tracked, recorded, shared.

But as microprocessors spread to other applications such as cars, dishwashers, electricity and water meters, we are being monitored more and more. Car satnav gadgets will be following your progress. The Copenhagen Wheel: a cycle motor recently invented to retrieve power from braking and downhill motion etc. is controlled by bluetooth and I read this cosy, heartwarming piece of information in relation thereto:

"Cyclists can use this data to plan healthier bike routes, to achieve their exercise goals or to create new connections with other cyclists. Through sharing their data with friends or their city, they are also contributing to a larger pool of information from which the whole community can benefit."

'Opt-out' no doubt - if you know how. Good old community. Soon we'll all know where everyone is, was, or will be. For ever and ever. Amen.
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#2 Sotha

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Posted 19 August 2010 - 01:04 PM

Citizen!

Please wave at the nearest security camera! Internal Security is watching.

I suppose old style ID cards will be redundant in the future as subdermal ID chips installed after birth will replace them. Naturally these chips contain gps tracking for the citizens convienence...
And the licence agreements sell your body and soul to the stockholders.
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#3 Fidcal

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Posted 19 August 2010 - 02:55 PM

A couple of decades ago I thought this way of thinking was just paranoia but now I really think it is some process that might be beyond our control. I literally cannot conceive how things will be a couple of decades hence. Two or three possibilites do occur to me but it could be quite different:

The 'process' takes over and dominates our lives and becomes too powerful to stop. We become slaves to it.

'We' change and learn to accept and be comfortable with zero privacy where everyone knows what everyone is doing. No crime but everyone knows how often you wipe your arse with your bluetooth paper dispenser when it automatically orders refills.

There is a world-wide social revolt of some kind, possibly leading to some draconian government.

Ditto but leading to some benign, more wonderful form of self-government.

#4 aidakeeley

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Posted 19 August 2010 - 03:07 PM

But it's not a totalitarian state dicatorship as was feared. We ourselves are becoming Big Brother, at least, in the guise of commerce.


It's the long standing Dictatorship Of The Bourgeoisie.

And "we" are not it. Unless you are part of the owning class, the exploiters, the-every-bit-as-brutal-as-you-can-imagine money-grubbing set. They are in charge and have been for a long time. And while they may keep things just slightly tolerable for many of us (though, everything is in fact a mess everywhere and everyone knows it as plain as day), they fucking rule with a rather more ugly stick elsewhere -- just over there, you can see it, it's not hidden even, just obscured by provided distractions.

The world needn't be fucked up as it is. AAMOF we have the technology to climb, all of us, head and shoulders out of the muck of ages.

And the potential thereafter to soar.
"A Rhapsody Of Feigned And Ill-Invented Nonsense" - Thomas Aikenhead, On Theology, ca. 1696

#5 Midnight

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Posted 19 August 2010 - 03:17 PM

It's like the plot of a bad movie, "There is a Big Brother, and it's US!" Posted Image
Interesting timing Fidcal: Facebook Places

#6 Baddcog

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Posted 19 August 2010 - 03:30 PM

But it's our everday exceptance of the circumstances of 'how the world is' that has led to it.

Once in awhile there's a great Breakthrough, a Ghandi for the masses. But you think most people wnant to suffer like he did, even for their own freedoms?

Most people would just rather be told what to do, not question 'authority' and skate through life.

The next big break through imo is Marijuanna legalization. California's almost there, Colorado is borderline, Obama isn't enforcing Federal Statutes over states rights on the issue. Once that takes place the viels on 50 years of Nixon era propoghanda will be lifted.
20 percent of our jails are filled with people having 'grass', a 'banned substance' that has never been proven harmful and has never been the cause of a death and it's been proven to be medicinally beneficial. Yet tobacco and alcohl both kill, are both addictive, are both sold by corporations, neither have medical benefit, and yet both are freely available.
Just recently the 100-1 disparity over crack to cocaine 'crimes' has been changed to 20-1. Still, African Americans are still 20 times more likely to be sent to jail if they get caught with crack than a white kid caught with coke, but it's a step in the right direction. (Keep in mind more white people still get caught with coke than blacks with crack, yet more blacks are going to jail for it)

People are starting to realize how dictorial and totalitarianism the US govt actually is. The dummies are coming out in force and exposing themselves. Everyone who lives a public life is now being shown for what they are, Liars Thieves and Charlatans. People who rally against gays for 20 years are now being caught with Rent-A-Boys, etc...
The Supreme Court has shown they're in favor of Corporations and Fat Cat's. Fox news is finally seen for the Republican hate propoghanda machine it has always been.

I don't see any end to the govts as we know them, maybe they'll be cleaned up a bit. But as long as we have the internet as a FREE source of information I think we have alot more power than the elite's wanted us to ever get.
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#7 Melan

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Posted 19 August 2010 - 03:44 PM

That's one side of it. Internet anonymity is already gone unless you are prepared to do a lot of research and shut yourself out of a lot of convenient, fun stuff.

As for the other, if Big Brother were alive today, he would be investing his capital in social networking software and search engines instead of truncheon-wielding goons. Why even set up an extensive espionage organisation when people will happily fill out reports on themselves and post them on multiple sites from Twitter through Facebook to personal blogs? They say a trash bin alone holds enough information to profile an entire household. Extend that to personal information people tend to spread about themselves with great enthusiasm, and you could get a range of information on one's politics, social standing, qualifications, whether they are home on Sunday and map their entire personal network to the nth degree. That's very powerful stuff to give to police, government, criminals, business enterprises or random strangers you may not even know about, and people don't even blink an eye. :ph34r:

Edited by Melan, 19 August 2010 - 03:46 PM.

Come the time of peril, did the ground gape, and did the dead rest unquiet 'gainst us. Our bands of iron and hammers of stone prevailed not, and some did doubt the Builder's plan. But the seals held strong, and the few did triumph, and the doubters were lain into the foundations of the new sanctum. -- Collected letters of the Smith-in-Exile, Civitas Approved

#8 lost_soul

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Posted 19 August 2010 - 04:58 PM

Your concerns are valid. The other day, I fired up my netbook and was also prompted to update Flash. I also make sure nothing I install gets to run in the background 24/7. After checking in msconfig, I didn't see any flash stuff listed. This pissed me off slightly, because I don't like things running without my permission or phoning home without my permission.

You wouldn't let a stranger come into your house and start making phone calls to unknown third-parties, so why should software running on your machine get to do whatever it wants in this regard? I think the weak-links here are both ignorance and lack of willingness to sift through all of this crap: just as you said.

The average user doesn't want to learn how to disable unnecessary services, or even know the many reasons why this is a good idea. Nobody reads those EULAs too. There isn't enough man-power to deal with it all. As long as things work, almost nobody cares what is going on behind the scenes.

My solution to the problem was switching to Debian. I don't have games secretly installing services in the background, apps updating themselves, or anything like that. Unfortunately, flash under Linux on netbooks is a bad joke. It is like watching videos on a 486.

Even Ubuntu will begin sending "I'm alive!" pings back to Canonical in the future. http://www.linuxinsi...?wlc=1282254967

What are your thoughts on Steam in this regard? I recall seeing a story about Valve changing something in the Dam level in an update because many gamers had trouble there.

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#9 Baddcog

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Posted 19 August 2010 - 05:25 PM

I was actually very hesitant to play any games on steam because it requires being on the internet.

But I did get the Orange box and got hooked on Tf2, now I have alot of games on Steam. It's actually a pretty nice service IF you have internet, otherwise your games are worthless.

But I've never had any issues with it, sometimes a game server crashes, or Steam is too busy to DL a game fast... But it only runs when I turn it on, it only updates games, it doesn't add anything you don't want.
People can tell how much time you spend in games, or what game you are playing ATM, etc... but that depends on you. If you don't accept/make friend requested or don't log in to friends then that doesn't happen.

Sure, Valve does do updates on their games, and you have to update to use them (multiplayer), but they take their community pretty seriously and only update when people inform them of cheats, map breaks, etc.. Which is nice, most companies would say tough luck.
(Like there was a window in L4D2 you could go in as infected and 'pounce out of a wall' that was really fun, but pretty unfair.)

And that's only their games, any company who uses Steam as a distro service can update too, but that's up to them, no Valve involvement at all.

Valve/Steam is too gamer savy to start pumping a bunch of crap into their service, I think they know very well that would all but kill Steam and for them it's a very profitable venture and a great way to add loyalty among their fan base.
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#10 nbohr1more

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Posted 19 August 2010 - 05:29 PM

It all comes down to:

1) Who has the information
2) How reliable it is
and
3) What they can do with it

The flood of Facebook details is tainted with spammers' fake profiles that any info-thief would need to wade through. In an odd way, the better the bots the harder it'll be to peer into these sites for information about real people. It's a kinda sad thought that the future of human freedom wrests with those who write spam and malware... but the inherent problems of malfunction and distrust make any power-monger's job that much harder.

I see this tainting as a two-way street though... The power-mongers are trying to taint the public's well of reliable info. The outgrowth of such instant populace controlled media is a major menace for those in authority. I can only begin to fathom the measure they are taking to crush this paradigm. The Patriot Act comes to mind.................
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#11 Tudor

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Posted 20 August 2010 - 08:47 AM

"Social" "Service" "Friends" and "Platform" Are so abused nowadays it's given the words a new touch to me. Which is awful as they are not in essence bad words.

Today I tried my best to remove facebook, it is a very, very hard process, and I suppose I can only blame myself for knowing all about it's problematique with privacy and yet not hesitating to sign up. Only to sit and ogle at what applications people use, how awfully my friends express themselves in text, and how some people I barely know have lives a thousand times more fun than me.

I honestly felt cornered by having my facebook, so it had to die, now it has an email I don't remember, a name I can't type (because of foreign letters, it's "not name" in Belarusian) And a password that is imposible for my number-ignoring mind to comprehend, let alone type out.

No information is on there tierh, no contacts applications friends or anything of the like. The bad sides outweighed the good and I will never get a new one. But the best I can do is deactivate my accountk, only to have it reactivated the next time I log in, but as my profile no longer is associated at all with me, it's impossible for me to do.

Google is a company that frightens me greatly, despite that I often use their searching service and their Gmail is my email of choice. But the way they aim to cache the entirety of the internet and have all books digitalised, how they have such widespread Ad campaigns and have mapped out every major city in the world with their city vehicles is frightening. I am generally opposed to the internet as net neutralite really doesn't exist anymore, and anonymity is often a bad thing as well. Simply because it lets you get away with things you should get away with. I'm not pro-surveillance, but I am against complete lawlessness as well. The internet as a corporate medium is making itself more and more visible, mainly in the way every site seems ad powered and how goverments and companies can block web pages is another interesting detail to note. The internet will not be free forever, and it really isn't now either, it's limited by it's bandwidth and the cost of the services provided by ISP's.

Edited by Tudor, 20 August 2010 - 08:48 AM.


#12 stumpy

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Posted 20 August 2010 - 12:04 PM

if you have a mobile phone then the sim card it uses has a tracking device built into it that tells certains forces where you are at all times even if you turn the phone off. Its the same tracking device that was going to be put into that ID Card system that the british government suposily scrapped, it was just put into the sim card instead, doesn't use your phones power, actually uses power from the phone network coverage. And the tracking device is the size of a grain of sand. Although they are planing to insert a device into your body as soon as your born, that will be with you your whole life so they know exactly where you are at all times, and who you are with and it will listen in on all your conversations and will probably even read your email.

#13 PranQster

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Posted 20 August 2010 - 01:28 PM

After checking in msconfig, I didn't see any flash stuff listed. This pissed me off slightly, because I don't like things running without my permission or phoning home without my permission.


More and more software for Windows keeps getting installed to run as a service. So it will not show in msconfig, and in taskmanager it all gets grouped with the process named "services". To find it, you'd have to go into the computer management section of the control panel and find it listed in Services. You'll probably find Adobe Flash listed in there... should be able to stop it and change it's settings to 'disabled' or at least to 'manual'.

Um... I should have read the rest of your post before replying, LOL.You obviously know the above info. Oh well, it is here for others to read.

Edited by PranQster, 20 August 2010 - 01:38 PM.

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#14 PranQster

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Posted 20 August 2010 - 02:06 PM

My solution to the problem was switching to Debian. I don't have games secretly installing services in the background, apps updating themselves, or anything like that. Unfortunately, flash under Linux on netbooks is a bad joke. It is like watching videos on a 486.

Even Ubuntu will begin sending "I'm alive!" pings back to Canonical in the future. http://www.linuxinsi...?wlc=1282254967


Many of the concerns in this thread led me to switch to Linux 7.5 years ago. I went with the .rpm based Mandrake and still run Mandriva to this day and am absolutely happy. I have either learned to get the games running which I cared about most, or I learned to do without them. No big deal for me; no regrets.
The comment about flash on netbooks reminds me that I need to upgrade my distro in my netbook (and test flash).

Though if Mandriva continues on the path they seem to be on now, there will be no Mandriva corp. to send "I'm Alive!" pings to. I'm wondering if I'll be using Ubuntu in a year.

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#15 Melan

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Posted 22 August 2010 - 08:12 AM

Coincidentally, I have just found this WSJ article.

The Journal examined the 50 most popular U.S. websites, which account for about 40% of the Web pages viewed by Americans. (The Journal also tested its own site, WSJ.com.) It then analyzed the tracking files and programs these sites downloaded onto a test computer.As a group, the top 50 sites placed 3,180 tracking files in total on the Journal's test computer. Nearly a third of these were innocuous, deployed to remember the password to a favorite site or tally most-popular articles.

But over two-thirds—2,224—were installed by 131 companies, many of which are in the business of tracking Web users to create rich databases of consumer profiles that can be sold.

The top venue for such technology, the Journal found, was IAC/InterActive Corp.'s Dictionary.com. A visit to the online dictionary site resulted in 234 files or programs being downloaded onto the Journal's test computer, 223 of which were from companies that track Web users.
...
The most intrusive monitoring comes from what are known in the business as "third party" tracking files. They work like this: The first time a site is visited, it installs a tracking file, which assigns the computer a unique ID number. Later, when the user visits another site affiliated with the same tracking company, it can take note of where that user was before, and where he is now. This way, over time the company can build a robust profile.

etc. etc. etc. There is theoretically a site where you can opt out of some data collection schemes at http://www.networkad...g.org/index.asp, but if they are secretly collecting data, they may or may not honour that desire.

I bet by typing this, my profile is edging closer to their "paranoid crank" folder, too. ;)
Come the time of peril, did the ground gape, and did the dead rest unquiet 'gainst us. Our bands of iron and hammers of stone prevailed not, and some did doubt the Builder's plan. But the seals held strong, and the few did triumph, and the doubters were lain into the foundations of the new sanctum. -- Collected letters of the Smith-in-Exile, Civitas Approved

#16 Bikerdude

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Posted 22 August 2010 - 08:29 AM

Adobe Acrobat regularly tries to update on the internet

Fids, go to prefs and then update and turn it off - most legit apps will have this option hidden aware etc.

#17 Fidcal

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Posted 22 August 2010 - 08:42 AM

Thanks for this Melan. It's a detailed and absorbing article. I'm still working through it! I went to one of the opt-outs and selected that. It then said that would only work with their partners. It then gave a list of others I could select. I selected all. Then some of those got checked and some crossed so I would follow each one up individually.

I decided to review my Opera settings. The only security setting I have for cookies is don't accept from 'other' sites (meaning only the site you are visiting.) Last time I cleared out cookies - a few years ago I guess - there 20 or 30 (including the ones I actually want.) Now I looked in Opera's cookie manager and there seem to be THOUSANDS! I am tempted to wipe the lot and re-accept the ones I do want. This is a pain but might be easier than trying to figure out all that lot.

I am definitely going to set 'always ask'. Don't know why I haven't got that set before. I think it is because some sites would not let you have access unless you had cookies. I might also set 'delete new cookies on exit' but I'm not sure how you would then allow a new cookie that you do want.

I blame Blair. His government allowed this awful 'opt-out' law which means commerce can do what they want and put some fine print on the other side of the world for opting out.

#18 Fidcal

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Posted 22 August 2010 - 08:46 AM

Fids, go to prefs and then update and turn it off - most legit apps will have this option hidden aware etc.

I'm not sure I want to update just so I can turn off auto update. Why can't they just provide an opt-out up front? Why can't they put up front exactly and clearly what is in an update so I can choose? WTF should I trust them at all? :angry:

I don't actually run Acrobat direct. I run Opera which has a plug in.

#19 Fidcal

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Posted 22 August 2010 - 09:04 AM

I'm seriously considering wiping all my cookies and starting again with a more rigorous setting. I'm trying to find out what 'delete new' does to new ones you do want. I find this: Any idea what this means? Seems to me that .coms etc are pretty well 99% of the net! For instance modetwo.net cookies are illegal? Obviously not since Opera allows them. So what does this mean?

Invalid cookies

There are types of cookies that Opera will refuse regardless of whether you have set the browser up to handle all cookies. These are cookies set for top-level domains: domains ending in .com, .net, and .org, among others. Such cookies are considered invalid or illegal and are blocked because: 
Any Web site could read such a cookie's contents, it would have unlimited access.
The only use for such cookies is to track surfers across the Web.


#20 LEGION

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Posted 22 August 2010 - 03:50 PM

Donīt know about that, but if you really want to be asked for every cookie youīre gonna have to spent a lot of time with that...

Something else: Most of the time when I open a new tab or click at a google-link, I got new tabs or even get redirected to one of the following sites, most of them seem to search for my originally search-entry. I use 'AdblockPlus'-plugin for Firefox and with this I made this list so far. But for the most of them I never got them twice, so I always experience new sites. I made virus-scans, am sure nothing suspicious is working in background (without windows), but I canīt get rid of this again. My girlfriend says she has this too, but itīs so annoying, do you guys even know this? Donīt know what I did to cause this annoyance.

BTW, I use 'Avira Anti-Vir' and 'Ad-aware'.

Hereīs the list with the annoying redirecting sites: (I always hit 'ESC' before the sites were loaded, some even wanted to start videos and caused Firefox to crash!)
http://granitecityflorist.com
http://dungcunhakhoa.com/
http://marinavicario.com/search.php
http://hotsprings.com/search.php
http://foamroofingchicago.com
http://netsponsors.com/search.php
http://championsidecar.com/search.php
http://de.ask.com
http://counerstrike.com
http://click.top10recipes.com
http://watkinscollegeofart.com
http://paperboy.net/search.php
http://shayseven.com
http://productionequipment.com/search.php
http://ajmanrentals.com/
http://ecobrief.com/search.php
http://metawax.com/search.php
http://northfarm.com/search.php
http://labpupskennels.com/
http://p-saison.com/
http://lgerca.com/search.php
http://acne-remedies-net.com/
http://xtremehits.org/
http://cityofmonroewater.com/
http://clannad.com/
http://de.answerfinders.info/
http://elistsorg.com/
http://cerigua.com/search.php
http://redirect.quoka.com
http://chinabytemail.com/search.php
http://www.performance-adserver.net/
http://7search.com/
http://alpaca-products-net.com/
http://gomadeiralive.com
http://walnutcreekinn.com/
http://www.reisesuche24.com/index.html
http://chienderace.com/search.php
http://breckenridge-ski-vacations-net.com/
http://airplane-rental.com/
http://creditcounsellor.org/
http://rmsdistillery.com/search.php
http://prezzee.com/
http://logicadirecta.com/
http://click.super-gunstig.de/
http://eztitle.com/
http://cityofsalem.com/
http://dianwan.net/
http://www.mobilespy.de/
http://dragon-summit.com/search.php
http://cgi.skyweyr.com/search.php
http://www.google.com/webhp
http://bucksandducks.com/
http://architect3d.org/
http://78.140.143.83/go.php
http://vacastart.com/
http://asianfuniture.com/
http://193.105.174.53/
http://eduorg.com/
http://www.localbatteries.com/
http://eoccupy.com/
http://406_47660506.admarketplace.com/
http://postgen.com/search.php
http://rejecttherebate.com/search.php
http://josettedesignerboutique.com/
http://artyficialdesign.com/
http://livingwillcards.com/search.php
http://66.230.188.67/
http://golfmark.com/search.php
http://apprenticeships.com/
http://dashcover.org/
http://edon.net/
http://tennis-for-everyone.com/
http://de.grepolis.com/
http://www.zylom.com/
http://certifiedsoftware.com/search.php
http://onlinex.mydirtyhobby.com
http://deepleap.com/search.php
http://bigyellowdirectory.com/
http://rabbits.com/search.php
http://editml.com/search.php
http://msrkeys.com
http://www.wwwadcntr.com/
http://cgishield.com/search.php
http://lewesdeleware.com/


#21 jdude

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Posted 22 August 2010 - 10:05 PM

The next big break through imo is Marijuanna legalization. California's almost there, Colorado is borderline, Obama isn't enforcing Federal Statutes over states rights on the issue. Once that takes place the viels on 50 years of Nixon era propoghanda will be lifted.
20 percent of our jails are filled with people having 'grass', a 'banned substance' that has never been proven harmful and has never been the cause of a death and it's been proven to be medicinally beneficial. Yet tobacco and alcohl both kill, are both addictive, are both sold by corporations, neither have medical benefit, and yet both are freely available.
Just recently the 100-1 disparity over crack to cocaine 'crimes' has been changed to 20-1. Still, African Americans are still 20 times more likely to be sent to jail if they get caught with crack than a white kid caught with coke, but it's a step in the right direction. (Keep in mind more white people still get caught with coke than blacks with crack, yet more blacks are going to jail for it)

People are starting to realize how dictorial and totalitarianism the US govt actually is. The dummies are coming out in force and exposing themselves. Everyone who lives a public life is now being shown for what they are, Liars Thieves and Charlatans. People who rally against gays for 20 years are now being caught with Rent-A-Boys, etc...


I have two problems with your views :P

Marijuana is not as safe as many activists claim. In it's native form, which is almost non existent now it was useful, but the stuff people buy today contains WAY more THC than the native form ever did. I'm all for legalization but it must be of the ORIGINAL form.

In addition these medical benefits you cite come at a cost. I was reading some of my brothers medical Journals (He's a doctor) and Marijuana use does come with a 50%+ increase chance of permanent schizophrenia and paranoia. Then it has the usual smoking side effects like increased chance of Asthma and Bronchitis. Technically smoking cigarettes has never fully been linked to cancer, but the relationship between people who smoke and people who don't and cancer means there's an obvious link. Just because it's 'never been proven harmful' doesn't mean it is.

That being said however, I do support it's use, and any other drugs use for people in severe pain or chronic addiction. All you have to do is walk down Vancouver's downtown drug district and you see homeless people all over the place doing things to them self that is going to kill them. Why? Because their addicted to crack and other chemicals and the only way they can get them is through over priced dangerous dealers, so they end up spending all their money on the drug because they cannot help it. I've heard of countries where people like this can liveu normal lives becase the government provides them with a dose of the drug their addicted to in the morning, and after work. These people could function as productive members of society if we'd let them, but because if the government was to ever accept such substances like crack into society, you'd have people blaming the government for their addiction, then you'd get assholes who would say the government did it on purpose to get these individuals to pay for their drugs. It's such a joke how we treat these people, forgetting their actual people... For example, people were opposed to SAFE INJECTION SITES!!! All they'd be doing is giving out needles to prevent diseases like AIDS and people opposed this! Ridiculous.


My other point is, even though the USA has it's flaws I wouldn't ever consider it a totalitarian or dictatorial country. Go to a country like China and notice the huge difference in propaganda and lifestyles.

But hey, lets remember everyone, all the information that they've got from us, we've given up in our own free will. No one force us to make facebook accounts.

#22 Midnight

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Posted 23 August 2010 - 12:03 AM

Yes, your propaganda in the US is very different to China's.

#23 Fidcal

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Posted 23 August 2010 - 04:30 AM

But hey, lets remember everyone, all the information that they've got from us, we've given up in our own free will. No one force us to make facebook accounts.

Yes but it relies on people not realizing the possible consequences. It takes advantage. If someone took advantage of say, a mentally-deficient person or a young child to get money out of them we would be horrified even if that person gave his consent. We are all mentally-deficient in the sense that we are not infinitely wise or infinitely knowledgeable so ruthless people will always take advantage.

They've always done this. Market stall holders put the best vegetables at the front but bag up from the back. Life is just so much more complex now that we cannot keep up with how we are being abused and governments are afraid to control commerce because unless it is done globally individual countries will suffer economically. That's why I see it is as a 'process', a seemingly unstoppable juggernaut. Are we really in control at all? I mean, is anybody in control? Or is it just a chain of reactions.

My money is still on evolution being biased to the survival of what is 'good' in the long run but that may be way in the future.

#24 Fidcal

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Posted 23 August 2010 - 12:43 PM

I have now deleted every single cookie on my system. I've set 'delete all new cookies' default and am UNsetting that on individual site preferences for the few where I want it to keep cookies such as this one.

#25 Baddcog

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Posted 23 August 2010 - 01:20 PM

I have two problems with your views Posted Image


I have a prblem with your 'views' too. They sound like the nonsense propoghanda we have heard for years.

Have you ever seen the propoghanda film 'Reefer Madness'. You really should see what the govt was forcing on people to change their opinions.

Then you should smoke a joint and realize it's all lies.

Marijuana is not as safe as many activists claim. In it's native form, which is almost non existent now it was useful, but the stuff people buy today contains WAY more THC than the native form ever did. I'm all for legalization but it must be of the ORIGINAL form.


Myth one, todays pot DOES NOT have more THC than natural form.
1st: stuff from afgahnistan has always been more powerful than stuff from Mexico. And in the propoghanda used against it they always seem to 'mis-represent' the facts.
Sure, there has been breeding for combining different characteristics just like in all plants, and true this can make some breeds more powerful than the original breed, but it can't make it more powerful than what it was mixed with. Just different than it was.
Sure, you get better yields from the same plant, we have plant growing techniques that can best nature, no weather, more sunlight, etc..

Still, this is one of those talking points that propoghandsist use all the time but it is false.


In addition these medical benefits you cite come at a cost. I was reading some of my brothers medical Journals (He's a doctor) and Marijuana use does come with a 50%+ increase chance of permanent schizophrenia and paranoia. Then it has the usual smoking side effects like increased chance of Asthma and Bronchitis. Technically smoking cigarettes has never fully been linked to cancer, but the relationship between people who smoke and people who don't and cancer means there's an obvious link. Just because it's 'never been proven harmful' doesn't mean it is.


False again, you're probably reading journals that were printed AFTER Nixon made it illegal. And they have to print by govt standards. They are also heavily supported by industries like Big Pharma who make a killing off of unnatural processed drugs and were one of the major industries pushing for illegalization.
At least half the people I know smoke frequently (read daily), yet I don't know any schizo's (well, my sisters Ex, but he was an alcoholic, didn't use MJ) or anyone suffering from paranoia. Again, another falshood of the anti-MJ propghanda.

Honestly I don't believe Western modern medicine is as great as it's cracked up to be. Sure, we can do brain surgery, etc... But everytime I watch TV I see big pharma pushing new drugs 'that are thought to help' but have side effects such as 'suicidal thoughts, liver damage, etc...'
And of course you are free to take them, but not smoke a joint.

Asthma and Bronchitis huh? Funny, I've never had either issue there, in fact I'm in very good health, healthier than 50% of the population at least. And again, I don't know anyone who suffers asthma or bronchitis. Keep in mind that I know many athletes who are very strong and healthy and smoke (MJ) like chimneys. It's even rumored that MJ HELPS asthma due to it's calming and soothing effects .

The tar in lungs of smokers HAS been proven to be the cause of lung cancer, asthma, broncitis, etc... MJ has NO tar, and none of the added chemical like cyanide either.

That being said however, I do support it's use, and any other drugs use for people in severe pain or chronic addiction. All you have to do is walk down Vancouver's downtown drug district and you see homeless people all over the place doing things to them self that is going to kill them. Why? Because their addicted to crack and other chemicals and the only way they can get them is through over priced dangerous dealers, so they end up spending all their money on the drug because they cannot help it. I've heard of countries where people like this can liveu normal lives becase the government provides them with a dose of the drug their addicted to in the morning, and after work. These people could function as productive members of society if we'd let them, but because if the government was to ever accept such substances like crack into society, you'd have people blaming the government for their addiction, then you'd get assholes who would say the government did it on purpose to get these individuals to pay for their drugs. It's such a joke how we treat these people, forgetting their actual people... For example, people were opposed to SAFE INJECTION SITES!!! All they'd be doing is giving out needles to prevent diseases like AIDS and people opposed this! Ridiculous.


And people always bring hard drugs into the argument, like MJ is tied to them in anyway other than the fact that the US govt put a label on it 'BANNED SUBSTANCE'. And yet it's less harmful and addictive than even coffee, alcohol and tobacco.
Dark is the sway that mows like a harvest




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