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We have become Big Brother


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#351 Xarg

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Posted 30 January 2015 - 02:41 PM

https://www.youtube....EY7lYRneHc#t=85


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#352 nbohr1more

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Posted 07 March 2017 - 03:37 PM

This thread is now the understatement of the century:

 

https://wikileaks.org/ciav7p1/


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#353 kano

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Posted 07 March 2017 - 04:35 PM

... and the shit hits the fan, yet again.

 

The next few months will be interesting times...



#354 Anderson

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Posted 08 March 2017 - 06:15 AM

Snowden is a traitor that has to be judged for his crimes and involvement with Wikileaks.



#355 Bikerdude

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Posted 08 March 2017 - 08:09 AM

Snowden is a traitor that has to be judged for his crimes and involvement with Wikileaks.

This is one of the few times I wish there was a dislike button, as I believe the polar opposite of the above statement.

The governments of the world have been allowed to trample all over peoples rights unchecked for far far too long.
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#356 Anderson

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Posted 08 March 2017 - 08:44 AM

This is one of the few times I wish there was a dislike button, as I believe the polar opposite of the above statement.

The governments of the world have been allowed to trample all over people rights unchecked for far far too long.

 

If a crusader for digital privacy is as gallant as he wants to appear, what prevents him from facing the issue face to face like David Frost?
​Where's the anti-establishment credibility for a person that runs under the shadow of your nearest dictatorship? Victimization, obscurantism and lack of vision is what plagues them all.

 

This is really all but a question of privacy v. security.



#357 Bikerdude

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Posted 08 March 2017 - 10:01 AM

a question of privacy v. security.

And this seems to be the crux of so many many issues atm.

#358 nbohr1more

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Posted 08 March 2017 - 10:57 AM

Security is great.

 

Do we need to allow the an unaccountable organization to nominate itself above all 3 branches of Government to have it:

 

org-chart.png


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#359 Anderson

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Posted 08 March 2017 - 11:35 AM

Security is great.

 

Do we need to allow the an unaccountable organization to nominate itself above all 3 branches of Government to have it:

 

 

 

You don't really have to because Congress with a Republican majority and a Republican President subscribes behind these. Everybody knows its happening at least since Watergate.

 

 

When Europe has no vision, in the big scheme of things the US gov. still has to do this until democracies around the world get the hang of things and adapt (which they have an amazing capability of doing versus dictatorships, the last of which quickly become anachronic and fade during crisis).
​I understand the frustration, but the alternative is far worse in our times. Angela Merkel shouldn't be upset because their current external policy is a mess driven to an extreme point with the same pedantic approach as during WW2 the war machine worked. Only this time this engineer, precision goes 180 degrees in the other way.

Liberalism has its limits too.


Edited by Anderson, 08 March 2017 - 11:43 AM.


#360 Springheel

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Posted 08 March 2017 - 12:27 PM

Trump wants to undermine intelligence agencies, and it's nice that Russia/Wikileaks is there to help. 


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#361 Professor Paul1290

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Posted 10 March 2017 - 05:30 PM

This thread is now the understatement of the century:

 

https://wikileaks.org/ciav7p1/

 

Well, I was anal-retentive enough to spend several hours actually going through the docs that were released.

 

I've come to the conclusion that while the docs themselves seem legit, the summary/interpretation by WikiLeaks is awful at best and intentionally misleading at worst.

 

 

Some of the content of these docs are really concerning, but it's only a small fraction.

Of actual interest are some exploits for iOS and Android, and these are the most interesting mostly because of the lack of info about them.

Realistically there's a good chance a lot of these do not work anymore.

 

Most of the rest is exploits and malware which is of concern in itself, but a lot of it is the same sort of exploits and malware you'd find produced by non-government entities, there's just a lot of it and it's more refined because they're better funded.

It's not the sort of stuff that is suitable for mass deployment or mass surveillance, that doesn't appear to be much of a focus for the department in question.

For the most part it seems geared for manual deployment in the field or deployment via targeted procedure.

(I suppose that makes sense given what the CIA typically does)

 

That TV "fake-off" WikiLeaks mentions requires manual install and setup via USB. The CIA would have to break into your house and have physical access to your TV to use it and at that point it's serving as an alternative to "conventional" bugs.

It seems this joint project was done as a proof of concept for a specific model that wouldn't have much operational value in of itself.

 

The component library maintained by the "UMBRAGE" group is indeed a collection of attacks and malware from other countries, but only in the sense that they mostly come from existing malware and code which inevitably happens to be produced in a lot of different countries.

A lot of them come from open source repos or from existing malware samples.

If this wasn't CIA this collection could easily be from a well-funded security company (particularly if they do penetration testing) or criminal group.

 

I could keep going on as there's a lot of material to cover, but I think that's enough for you to get the idea.

What these docs describe has very little to do with mass surveillance nor some "magic government remote access" to everyone's devices that a lot of readers are unfortunately assuming is in here somehow.

If there is such "magic government remote access", it's not mentioned at all here.

 

 

Seriously, if you're really interested in this, I would suggest ignoring the WikiLeaks summary and actually going through the material yourself.

I'm not expecting everyone to have specialist knowledge on information security, but I'm sure enough of you are familiar enough with tech to understand enough of it to realize how misleading he WikiLeaks summary/interpretation of it is.

A lot of you don't have to trust me on this, if you really wanted to you could go through the material yourself.

 

Heck, I'd even go so far to say I can only conclude WikiLeaks is either being misleading on purpose, or is being so incompetent at interpreting the material that it doesn't matter if they're being malicious or not.

In some cases it seems like they're deliberately banking on the idea that everyone is going to parrot their summary and not bother to go through the source material, and unfortunately if they are it seems like they would be right so far.

 

 

As for my personal view on this, while I have no reason to believe any of the source material WikiLeaks released is fake, my trust in them to interpret said material has pretty much evaporated with this release.

I'm starting wonder if they've always been doing this and maybe I'm only seeing it now because this is the first time I've bothered to go through the source material and understood enough of it to realize it.


Edited by Professor Paul1290, 10 March 2017 - 05:33 PM.

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#362 nbohr1more

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Posted 10 March 2017 - 06:41 PM

What about the hyper visor bios exploits?

What about the anti-sand boxing exploits?

What about the ability to remotely control vehicles for untraceable assassinations?

I suggest you review further too.
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#363 Springheel

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Posted 10 March 2017 - 08:34 PM

What about the ability to remotely control vehicles for untraceable assassinations?

 

 

This can already be done by hackers.  There are youtube videos demonstrating it. 


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#364 stumpy

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Posted 10 March 2017 - 09:35 PM

The bbc made a big thing about the television's being hackable in the uk on the news, but never once mentioned it was only samsung smart tv's that could be hacked, they made it sound like all tv's are hackable remotely. Unless you are a terrorist then its more than likely you have not been hacked by the CIA, seeing as it would have been targeted hacks, maybe the tv's were actually given in a bogus prize draw. Who would say no, before the leaks, to a free smart tv.



#365 jaxa

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Posted 11 March 2017 - 12:50 AM

Every Internet connected product is capable of being hacked. All smart TVs, not just a particular brand. Physical access not required. The exploits are just waiting to be discovered. But if you were being targeted specifically, one way they can infect the device is to get to it after you order it and while it is in transit, if you ordered it online. So an exploit that requires physical access is still useful, even if it is overhyped.

 

Basically anything is vulnerable. There are decades old exploits lingering in modern operating systems. The real question is, do you pay your government to fix the flaws as they are found, or to exploit them? The CIA has chosen to exploit vulnerabilities, furthering some national security agenda that is in no citizen's interest, while degrading our security. Leaking documents to WikiLeaks is unprofitable and risky for the leaker. If one employee leaked, you can bet another employee sold some exploits instead, maintaining some of the shelf life of the exploit. The CIA would rather have a traitor in its ranks than a whistleblower/leaker.

 

We need a thousand Snowdens and dozens of WikiLeaks type organizations. The intelligence community is doing very little in the public's interest. Catching a few made-up terrorists here and there. The FBI can do a sting operation on a mentally ill Twitter user, give them some gray play-doh, and tell Congress they foiled N++ terrorist plots. If they get lucky, maybe they will foil a real potential attack, but that's not the low-hanging fruit, Continuing to run a drug war results in profit for a lot of people across multiple industries, but don't forget any of the law enforcement granted the power of civil forfeiture. There are many duplicate agencies offering plush jobs for bureaucrats and security guards.

 

Did I forget their fine overseas work? Oops. Let's give credit for drone assassinations, which are not at all destabilizing and don't create new enemies of the United States who are inspired to commit terrorist attacks, giving justification for more funding of the intelligence community.



#366 Professor Paul1290

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Posted 11 March 2017 - 02:31 AM

What about the hyper visor bios exploits?

What about the anti-sand boxing exploits?

 

Not sure what "hyper visor bios exploits" refers to specifically in these docs.

Perhaps it has to do with the section on EFI/ UEFI?

 

Anti-sandbox can refer to quite a few things that show up in this leak like "Flash Bang", the "Elderpiggy" exploit for iOS, or maybe the trick they pulled from "The Trojan Upclicker".

 

 

What about them?

 

Yes BIOS exploits and anti-sandboxing techniques are a threat. Yes they are very concerning.

 

While they're not the most common types exploits floating around, the CIA don't exactly have a monopoly on them.

Does whether the CIA or some criminal group have them change your threat model significantly?

I suppose that depends on your situation.

 

 

 

What about the ability to remotely control vehicles for untraceable assassinations?

 

The docs do not describe the "ability to remotely control vehicles for assassinations". If they have such a capability, it's not explained in here.

 

What is there are a set of meeting notes where "Vehicle Systems" are listed among "Potential Mission Areas".

As far as I can tell, the topic is not expanded upon beyond that, at least not in the docs that have been leaked.


Edited by Professor Paul1290, 11 March 2017 - 02:32 AM.


#367 Anderson

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Posted 11 March 2017 - 05:35 AM

Did I forget their fine overseas work? Oops. Let's give credit for drone assassinations, which are not at all destabilizing and don't create new enemies of the United States who are inspired to commit terrorist attacks, giving justification for more funding of the intelligence community.

 

Enemies exist regardless, it's about the answer to a threat that is proportional to such a threat. Everybody likes to forget how successful the Gulf War was, to remember the mistakes of the Iraq War, Afghanistan. But the truth was always the same whether a dictatorship is there to cover the ugly side of its activity with a curtain or let free market, free press and some democratic tendencies to slowly slide in.

The status quo constantly changes against the favour of dictatorships like Russia, Iran which are unable to adapt or influence the situation. So why not spew a seed of existential doubt and some nihilism?

The truth is that developing countries, developing democracies in transitional periods are as fragile as South Vietnam without any programme to consolidate the existing institutions.

Democracy is not just the will of the people. That was when 60% voted to eat the other 40% for breakfast. Democracy means building independent instituions based on rule of law, regardless of the government voted.


Edited by Anderson, 11 March 2017 - 05:36 AM.





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