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Is it possible to turn the crosshair on?


Malleus

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I disagree with the sentiment that a crosshair would be against the spirit of the dark mod or thief. Should items not highlight when you can frob them, either? Anway, thief effectively does have a crosshair, it's just built into the bow model. I second the motion to have some kind of reference to aid in aiming, either a crosshair in the HUD or one built into the bow model.

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I think you might of downloaded the wrong mod

 

I knew some elitist will jump in to make a comment like that conveniently forgetting that a multitude of actions in this game requires precision aiming, including the very unforgiving way it handles blackjacking and backstabbing. In my book, having to aim by approximating the (almost exact) center of the screen is bad design.

 

Now I wouldn't ask for the outright addition of a crosshair - I was thinking about having the ability to bind it to a key, so it can be turned on if someone needs it.

Edited by Malleus
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This has been discussed before, search the forums for crosshair.

 

This is a difficult topic due to the diversity of personal preferences. (As already seen in this topic.)

 

I personally find it difficult to choose a specific object among other objects; a subtle translucent crosshair would help.

 

But then again, crosshair would look a bit dumb on the screen: it isn't well suited for TDM style. And it would be only needed at a few situations.

 

Note that play experience reduces the need of crosshair as you learn the intricacies of the frobbing system / aiming the KO.

Clipper

-The mapper's best friend.

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It seems like a no-brainer to me - add the crosshair as an option you can enable and disable in the options menu. This would help the people who want it, and not hurt the people who don't. I can't understand how someone can reasonably object to having the option. You could even make disabled the default. I think the people who want the crosshairs won't be offended by having to turn it on - I'd like to think the people who don't want the crosshairs wouldn't be offended by having to turn it off, but I'm less confident of that.

 

Is there any good reason not to have it as an option (disabled by default)? And by "good" I mean logical and concrete. "It's not in the spirit of dark mod/thief" doesn't count, because what constitutes the spirit of dark mod/thief is a subjective thing, and with the option, people could enable or disable the crosshairs as per their individual conceptions of the spirit.

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Is there any good reason not to have it as an option (disabled by default)? And by "good" I mean logical and concrete. "It's not in the spirit of dark mod/thief" doesn't count, because what constitutes the spirit of dark mod/thief is a subjective thing, and with the option, people could enable or disable the crosshairs as per their individual conceptions of the spirit.

 

Many preferential things are subjective things. The only logical and concrete reason not to have it is the lack of a motivated/talented person interested in investing their personal time in the creation of the said crosshair in such a level of quality it would be accepted in the mod.

 

Please note that I am not speaking for the team, but I am under the impression that they do not mind if others create high quality features which could be added to the mod.

 

I'd await the teams feedback, and if they give the all-clear, please go ahead and create the crosshair.

I would certainly at least try it if it was well done and subtle enough not obstruct the view or otherwise deteriorate the gaming experience. ^_^

 

Maybe if it was completely transparent, but it smoothly became more visible when the frobber is active? That would be cool.

Clipper

-The mapper's best friend.

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Is there any good reason not to have it as an option (disabled by default)?

 

I agree with your basic idea, but I'd rather be able to toggle it with a key (disabled by default, of course) within the game, because even I wouldn't want it to be on the screen all the time. As for the design, what Sotha said - a subtle transcluent one would be the best.

Edited by Malleus
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Is there any good reason not to have it as an option (disabled by default)?

 

We have finite time and resources and cannot implement any option just "because somebody wants it" or "it would be nice to have". As for this specific case, I cannot answer that. But even if we wanted a crosshair, somebody needs to implement it and add the menu option. ATM there are more important things to do (like releasing v1.03).

"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man." -- George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950)

 

"Remember: If the game lets you do it, it's not cheating." -- Xarax

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There won't be an official crosshair, though you could no doubt add one yourself (or re-add the default D3 one).

 

However, even if you added one it would be relatively useless. Frobbing does not necessarily target the exact center of the screen...it targets a larger area than a crosshair. Usually when frobbing is difficult it is because of other frobbable objects (like chests) that are intercepting the frob. A crosshair would not help in this situation. Nor would it particularly help with blackjacking or sword fighting, as those model a swinging arc and do not necessarily connect with the AI directly in the center of your screen.

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None of those use cases concern me - the ones that do are arrow-shooting and object-throwing. A crosshair would help a lot in these situation, for exactly the same reasons the bow sight helps in thief. It allows you to say, "If I charge my shot/throw all the way, and my target is about this far away, and I line him up with this point on the sight/crosshairs, I'll hit him." In dark mod, you can do that now using the point at the tip of the arrow, and estimating how far it has to be above your target in the plane of the screen.

 

However, it helps to have a larger, regular shape to use as a reference, rather than just the tip of the arrow. That way, instead of saying, "If I aim the arrow tip approximately 1/16 the height of the screen above my target..." you can instead say, "If I line up the point 1/4 of the height of the bow sight/crosshairs with my target..." It's easier to estimate a distance on a small object close to you than on your entire field of view, hence the bow sight in thief.

 

To provide the same advantages, the crosshairs in dark mod would have to be more than the typical dot or plus-sign; it could be a plus-sign with an elongated vertical line, with small horizontal hash marks along it to help you judge height, or it could be a vertical rectangle, the same size and shape as the bow sight from thief. Ideally, it could be selectable from any of these options via the menu, like many games with crosshairs.

 

I realize this takes a lot of work, and I'm not berating anyone for not implementing it yet. I'm just making the point that crosshairs would in fact be useful for many people, and could easily be disabled for those who don't find it so.

Edited by eigenface
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None of those use cases concern me - the ones that do are arrow-shooting and object-throwing.

 

Objects you throw have a random spin, so it is only half usable for this. (Also they should have a small slightly random angle of throw, too, but I forgot to check that this is actually working).

 

Before my changes, every object would always throw in the same predictable manner, which looked quite unrealistic - you could stack books 10m away by just throwing them :)

 

Anyway, we do have a bow with a sight somewhere, would it help if we package this up as an "official add-on" which people can "install" (just add the PK4)?

"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man." -- George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950)

 

"Remember: If the game lets you do it, it's not cheating." -- Xarax

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However, it helps to have a larger, regular shape to use as a reference, rather than just the tip of the arrow. That way, instead of saying, "If I aim the arrow tip approximately 1/16 the height of the screen above my target..." you can instead say, "If I line up the point 1/4 of the height of the bow sight/crosshairs with my target..." It's easier to estimate a distance on a small object close to you than on your entire field of view, hence the bow sight in thief.

 

Yugh. Having a crosshair for bow shooting sounds really awful.

 

Why does it have to be easy, when it can be challenging and fun. Most of the community does not fancy dumbed down console-like features. Using a bow properly takes skill, and remember that the crosshair would not help for all distances since the arrow is affected by gravity.

 

Try the bow range in the tutorial mission. It is easy to learn to use the bow without a crosshair and the bow remains challenging and fun in the missions.

Clipper

-The mapper's best friend.

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challenging and fun indeed. theres nothing quite like pegging a helmeted guard in the face with a broadhead from 30 paces. also trying to find and hit that perfect spot with a water arrow above a torch to douse it. i stopped aiming at the torches long ago. its much more satisfying to hit a spot above flame and watch the water pour down and smother it. can be trickier than it sounds, sometimes.

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Why does it have to be easy, when it can be challenging and fun. Most of the community does not fancy dumbed down console-like features. Using a bow properly takes skill, and remember that the crosshair would not help for all distances since the arrow is affected by gravity.

 

With the biased language spinning in the opposite direction, this becomes:

 

Why does it have to be clumsy, when in can be precise and fun? Most of the community prefers functional game design over simplistic ideas about realism. Using a bow properly takes a completely different skill than using a bow in a game, and crosshairs make this more accurate and interesting over a variety of ranges.

 

 

 

Not sure how crosshairs, present in virtually every PC FPS, became a console-like feature (trying to channel a little Thief 3 hate?) Of course, I've used the bow range in the training mission, extensively, and still hold this opinion, believe it or not. And of course, my opinion is that crosshairs should be optional (and disabled by default to boot), so you please everybody.

 

Anyway, we do have a bow with a sight somewhere, would it help if we package this up as an "official add-on" which people can "install" (just add the PK4)?

 

Sure, couldn't hurt to let one more flower bloom. Thank you very much.

 

I don't want to go give you the impression that I'm demanding features, though, as if I had the right. I'm just explaining why I think this feature would be a good one. It's kind of amazing how polarizing this issue is. (Edited to be less so, I hope.)

Edited by eigenface
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However, even if you added one it would be relatively useless. Frobbing does not necessarily target the exact center of the screen...it targets a larger area than a crosshair. Usually when frobbing is difficult it is because of other frobbable objects (like chests) that are intercepting the frob. A crosshair would not help in this situation. Nor would it particularly help with blackjacking or sword fighting, as those model a swinging arc and do not necessarily connect with the AI directly in the center of your screen.

 

Hmm, I see. That's certainly a valid argument on why it's not needed. Let's say you convinced me. :) I'll have a comment on the bow aiming though (a bit later when I can make screenshots).

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Objects you throw have a random spin, so it is only half usable for this. (Also they should have a small slightly random angle of throw, too, but I forgot to check that this is actually working).

 

Before my changes, every object would always throw in the same predictable manner, which looked quite unrealistic - you could stack books 10m away by just throwing them :)

 

I noticed that the guards throwing rocks were extremely accurate, even from about 20m away they could hit me every single time if I didn't move. This does suggest that either the random angle isn't working, or isn't enough.

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We've discussed a bow-site ad naseum. It won't be an official feature (and really isn't needed after a bit of practice). It's a perfect candidate for an unofficial add-on, however.

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I noticed that the guards throwing rocks were extremely accurate, even from about 20m away they could hit me every single time if I didn't move. This does suggest that either the random angle isn't working, or isn't enough.

 

As far as I remember, the random spin was added only to player-thrown objects. I am not sure how AI fire projectiles work, I thought there were already spawnargs for "spread"? Hm, having the AI doing 100% predictable throws isn't good, either, so thank you for reminding me to check this one day. Probably needs a bug tracker entry or we forget it soon...

"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man." -- George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950)

 

"Remember: If the game lets you do it, it's not cheating." -- Xarax

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I'm fairly certain the guards don't have perfect aim and do occasionally miss without me moving. I'd guess they hit their target about 80% of the time.

 

I've still not mastered aiming with broadheads at a distance, though I'm sure this will come with practice (it's rare that I feel the need to snipe guards with the bow from long distances, which is why I'm not used to it yet). An unofficial add-on sounds like a good idea for those who feel they'd make good use of it, though I would personally just prefer to practice with the existing bow.

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