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DarkMod / DarkFate correspondence


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#1 ungoliant

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Posted 02 December 2010 - 09:14 PM

Hello all of you across the pond. We know you are watching over here. It seems rather obvious that you all have your own ideas about improvements for TDM. I've seen a lot of discussion about models, normal maps, scripting, etc, but it seems you all like to keep your opinions private over there on your forum, and as you don't think we are reading your forum, a lot of your talk manifests itself as TDM bashing and mockery.

Seems a lot of you guys have been trying out Dark Radiant with varying degrees of success, but instead of asking for help over here, I see a lot of complaining about lack of features, and difficulty, and in almost every case I could of pointed you towards a very easy solution. Instead of offering ideas for improvement, there's just a lot of trash talk.

Seriously though, your "ambassador" ShadowHide over here does not make the best public relations manager, so why don't you lot register on our forum, and lets start a dialogue. We want improvements for TDM the same as you do, so come on over here and lets discuss criticisms, improvements, tech support, and Dark Radiant editing constructively.


edit: removed google translation. apparently it was bad.

Edited by ungoliant, 03 December 2010 - 04:21 AM.


#2 New Horizon

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Posted 02 December 2010 - 10:04 PM

I have nothing against Darkfate. Many of them over there are quite kind and supportive. There are just a few who drag the rest down and really make the atmosphere there unpleasant.

MoroseTroll has been very supportive.

Maybe something is being lost in translation, I don't know...but overall the rude attitude of some of the posters there toward our years of hard work is completely uncalled for.

#3 ungoliant

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Posted 02 December 2010 - 11:45 PM

yep it is uncalled for. But I'd rather see them over here talking to our face then over there snickering at us from afar.

#4 MoroseTroll

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Posted 03 December 2010 - 03:10 AM

C'mon guys, please relax. Yes, I must admit that some of the DarkFate members are, say, old-fashioned, but this is because they very do love Thief 1&2&3, not because they hate TDM. So please don't treat them as TDM-haters, they're just Thief 1&2&3 fans :).

#5 ungoliant

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Posted 03 December 2010 - 03:25 AM

hey no need to 'relax', I'm not trolling to lure people here and aggressively chew them out. I think it would be nice if darkfate feedback could be utilized as actual feedback here at our forum, where the TDM community can read and actively respond to concerns or misgivings of other folk that are clearly interested in TDM progress and Thief style gaming.

edit: I mean seriously. Your TDM thread alone is 131 pages. Theres obvious interest in the project. So why not talk about it with us?

Edited by ungoliant, 03 December 2010 - 03:35 AM.


#6 7upMan

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Posted 03 December 2010 - 03:49 AM

ungoliant, that Google translation was horrible. My hair is still standing up. † :blink:

Still, it's nice to know that some of the DarkFate members have a positive attitude towards TDM, or in other words: It's just a few haters that are so vocal that they are easily mistaken for being the majority of forum members. The same has happened in TTLG.com, there Bulgarian Taffer made a fuss about ... what was it? "Think about the cause!" or something just as retarded. It still makes me laugh.† ^_^

Anyway, I really hope the DarkFate members who do have the will to participate in TDM in any way will come here and exchange thoughts. We can all profit from that, because in the long run it will mean more FMs for all of us!!!† :laugh:


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#7 MoroseTroll

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Posted 03 December 2010 - 04:14 AM

ungoliant: I'm here, and talking with you, guys. ndk is here too. We are both interested in TDM, especially in the CC support.

#8 ungoliant

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Posted 03 December 2010 - 04:16 AM

ungoliant, that Google translation was horrible.


oops...? well that digital information submission probably wouldn't be the first to get raped by google, now would it?

edit: yeah, i've seen NDK's work on captions, and it's a very exciting prospect. Frankly, I've always been a big fan of subtitles, even for english dialogue. For some reason I just like the ability to read information and dialogue as well as hear it.

Edited by ungoliant, 03 December 2010 - 04:19 AM.


#9 7upMan

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Posted 03 December 2010 - 09:00 AM

edit: yeah, i've seen NDK's work on captions, and it's a very exciting prospect. Frankly, I've always been a big fan of subtitles, even for english dialogue. For some reason I just like the ability to read information and dialogue as well as hear it.


I sure hope our Russian friends are motivated anough to try to implement Unicode character support in Doom 3/TDM. It would make my life much much easier if I don't have to work around the special-character limitation when translating an FM. Also, I'd like to see TDM FMs in native Russian. Should be really exciting, because Russian "flows" completely different from English.
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#10 Midnight

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Posted 03 December 2010 - 02:28 PM

I'd love to play a russian FM even though I can't understand a word of it. Playing STALKER does that to you. Posted Image

#11 MoroseTroll

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Posted 04 December 2010 - 02:54 AM

AFAIK, it is difficult enough to implement Unicode/UTF8 in Doom 3 without its source. So, in case of Cyrillic characters, I think we just will try to adapt some Cyrillic fonts from Russian version of Doom 3. But firstly we'd like to see the CC support in the official TDM release :).

Edited by MoroseTroll, 04 December 2010 - 02:57 AM.


#12 ungoliant

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Posted 04 December 2010 - 03:34 AM

Seems to me that official subtitle support in a TDM release is only matter of time now, as long as its implemented in an agreeable way.

#13 MoroseTroll

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Posted 04 December 2010 - 04:04 AM

So, how do you think, have ndk made his work the agreeable way?
You see, my point is: the sooner TDM will support the CC feature, the sooner I can translate some best TDM FMs into Russian. The sooner I can translate some best TDM FMs, the sooner the Russian-speaking community may change its mind :). Of course, some of them can play English versions of FM, but the Russian ones are preferable, I guess.

Edited by MoroseTroll, 04 December 2010 - 04:17 AM.


#14 ungoliant

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Posted 04 December 2010 - 04:07 AM

That's not up to me to decide. I'm a member of the community but not the team.

#15 MoroseTroll

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Posted 04 December 2010 - 04:26 AM

Ok :). So, TDM Team, what would say about the official CC implementation?

#16 Tels

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Posted 04 December 2010 - 04:51 AM

Ok :). So, TDM Team, what would say about the official CC implementation?


Sorry, in the last weeks I was a bit busy in RL and this was totally of my mind. Tracked here:

http://bugs.angua.at/view.php?id=2454

I don't think it will make it into v1.03, but the plan is that we release v1.04 much faster after that. In the future releases will also be easier to do, and we want to get bugfixes out faster to the players.
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man." -- George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950)

"Remember: If the game lets you do it, it's not cheating." -- Xarax

#17 Andrey

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Posted 04 December 2010 - 05:00 AM

I see potential of TDM. I save all screens, arts, sketches, videos, etc.
I canít wait to see more BIG, HUGE maps and Iíll definitely want to play the new (1.03) version.

p.s. to moderators: how can I change my nickname Andrey to clearing.

#18 MoroseTroll

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Posted 04 December 2010 - 05:05 AM

Tels: I'm glad to read that :)! BTW, what do you think about my workaround for Catalyst AI? Can it be implemented into TDM as well? It's just a dozen of lines :).

Edited by MoroseTroll, 04 December 2010 - 05:06 AM.


#19 Thief Holy Thief

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Posted 04 December 2010 - 05:27 AM

Hello to all the TDM community. Iím not fm-maker or programmer, just a Thief big fan, but I want to say, that it is really great to see you guys did (and do) a lot of work for such huge project The Dark Mod is. Waiting every new TDM fm, and the last ones are really impressive. All the best to TDM team in developing and keeping alive all THIS!


And about Dark Fate Ė most of us keep an eye on TDM with big hopes and expectations, donít make your viewpoint about all the russian (and in general post-soviet) community only because of some negative or crude posts of single members ;)



#20 Tels

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Posted 04 December 2010 - 06:49 AM

Tels: I'm glad to read that :)! BTW, what do you think about my workaround for Catalyst AI? Can it be implemented into TDM as well? It's just a dozen of lines :).


I am no windows expert and have no windows, so somebody else would need to do it. But I tracked it here, it sounds like a useful addition (if it is stable, that is it doesn't cause problems on non-ati systems or something).

http://bugs.angua.at/view.php?id=2456
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man." -- George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950)

"Remember: If the game lets you do it, it's not cheating." -- Xarax

#21 LongShad

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Posted 04 December 2010 - 07:48 AM

What i say? Most claims is standart:
* Difficult Editor
* Slowly Engine
* Boring FMs
And from 131 pages ~120 is spam, holywar and flame.

#22 Baddcog

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Posted 04 December 2010 - 12:22 PM

What i say? Most claims is standart:
* Difficult Editor
* Slowly Engine
* Boring FMs
And from 131 pages ~120 is spam, holywar and flame.


well, 2 of those are personal opinions (editor/fm's), most people find the editor to be extremely friendly and easy to use (I do and I have used Dromed, Hammer, TES, Unity....)

Well, boring FM's, same can apply for any game. That's a mapper thing, storyline, game play , objectives... While some FM's might be boring does that make them all boring? But someone how T2 fm's are all fun?

slowly engine? that has to do with optimization, did the author do it properly? Even Hammer will be laggy and slow if you optimize wrong. Slower than Dromed? Well, Dromed allows 1024 polys on screen at once, Doom3 can go into 100's of thousands. So if you want extreme FPS go with 1024 tris per scene, performance will be grand, but visuals will be 1998.
The Wiki (in english) has great information on every topic/tool of the editor, even a complete a-z guide to build/release an fm. So difficulty with reading english maybe, but learning the editor I can't agree.

I think those claims are exactly the reason why people may feel Darkfate is a 'harsh climate'. (I can't read russian so...).
Seriously they aren't valid complaints, they are personal/uninformed opinions, and when people keep saying them, other people believe them and continue to spread the word. Whether it's correct or not.
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#23 LongShad

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Posted 04 December 2010 - 01:04 PM

* Difficult Editor
Someone talk, that DR most inconvenient, other says "You simply not enough research editor".
* Slowly Engine
May disable most visual options. So, i read, that someone running DooM III on GeForce 2 MX440. And other says "Still game requests too much for medium quality graphics".
* Boring FMs
Mappers just starting study editor :). And i, example, complete only 1 FM from 4 started. I may stupid, but i'm "stuck" on 3 FMs.

#24 Sotha

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Posted 04 December 2010 - 01:51 PM

Dromed allows 1024 polys on screen at once.

This is truly amazing: I've made several TDM maps already and it feels impossible to do anything with such a restriction. Basic scene is instantly 50 000 polies. I even stopped to think are you kidding. :) How can dromed mappers do it?


And i, example, complete only 1 FM from 4 started. I may stupid, but i'm "stuck" on 3 FMs.


Hey! Suddenly I understand! I agree that there are too many missions with gameplay halting key hunts or puzzles, etc. TDM would definately use few more missions with simple good and fun sneaking around without soap opera plot twists or rubik's cube / quantum physics problems. And those key hunts. *shiver*

Think about it: our russian friends may not not be able to ask for hints to make progress because of the language barrier. Of course it is frustrating to get stuck.

Maybe a mapping contest with the following restriction: the map must be fun simple good well flowing sneaking experience?
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#25 LongShad

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Posted 04 December 2010 - 02:12 PM

the map must be fun simple good well flowing sneaking experience?

I think, mappers try at least make FM. And forgets make this, to player understand - where go next. I starts mission and mind - where i got? Where go, what need search? Game (rather FM) contantly lost link with player and don't report - what need do now (find key, read book). Character always silent, but may be say "I need key to open it", "I'm need on top" or "Aha, this room". Play like game "Go there, do not know where, Find something I do not know what.".

And scenario (or plot). A plot - is 2-3 strings in objectives. At best, is 2-3 pages :). IMHO for good plot and scenario not enough only words.




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