Where would you look for this character?

[Springheel]

If you were a mapper looking for this character (called tdm_ai_female_rogue) to place in your map, which of the three folders would be the most intuitive for you?

 

Guard?

 

Thief?

 

Townsfolk?

[ungoliant]

take off the sword and i'll say commoner. Otherwise, thief i guess..?

[Aprilsister]

Not a guard. Not a thief. Got to be a townie.

[demagogue]

Lol, I was going to say guard. If she's armed and intended to fight, it's guard. "Thief" is for visibly-looking thieves. If she's usually unarmed and not intended to fight, but you can if you set it up, then townsfolk.

 

I recall at least one of the nobles can be armed (I put him in my FM). Can't remember how you handled that. Was there just one model and you checked a box for armed, or was it two different models, and where were they? Townfolk I recall. If it's like that, then townfolk would make sense. But if there is already a similar female townfolk model similar to this model, then that's the townfolk one and this one (the specifically rogue one) should go in guard like I was thinking at first.

[grayman]

There are already armed townfolk, so that's where I'd put her.

[Noisycricket]

From what i've heard thus far about Bridgeport, people might not go outside at night in many areas without a weapon.

[Fidcal]

There are already armed townfolk, so that's where I'd put her.

ditto. She might be used as a thief or a guard but armed commoner is most logical default.

[Xarg]

Assuming the Builders are equal opportunity employers, and you gave her a hammer, she could be an off duty Builder, either on the grounds or making a trip to a store for supplies... late at night

[Melan]

Looks like good old riff-raff to me. So probably Thief.

[STiFU]

Well, she does wear light armor (protective leather bands, leather boots), so judging from that, I'd stick her to thieves. She might as well be a female body guard or a hunter though. Maybe creating a common-armed category would work best here and stuff all the other armed townsfolk and other unclassifiable AI in there.

[_Atti_]

Male chauvinist joke got in mind: Props/kitchen

[Xarg]

Male chauvinist joke got in mind: Props/kitchen

 

I was thinking models/darkmod/furniture/beds/4posterbed.lwo myself, but couldn't find a way to make that joke without sounding nerdy

Edited December 3, 2010 by Xarg

[7upMan]

She's wearing leather trousers and boots, which was unheard of at that time - unless she's some kind of mercenary. I'd say merc or bodyguard, not a normal guard. At second thought, a smuggler. Yes, that's what comes to my mind.

[Serpentine]

 

Looks like a UO brigand to me... look at me the big neeeeerd

 

[demagogue]

I think this thread is making the question harder to answer, lol, since some naturally think thief, some naturally think commoner, and some (me at least) naturally think guard. So... there's going to be some arbitrariness no matter what you pick.

 

Another way to think about it, what gameplay scenes is she actually going to be used for? If she's usually going to be picked to be officially guarding something, a hired or organized hand, then guard (but you'd expect a uniform then). If she's probably going to be in a hideout with other thugs, then thief (and the thieves category could have a broader meaning, like smugglers). If she's meant to be put with other commoners and just happens to be armed, then commoner.

 

I don't think she'll be put in with other commoners because there's already a female model for that. So IMO it's between guard and thief. Thief would make sense if we understand it like I was saying, broader than just thieves but including thugs, rogues, and smugglers, any vocationally violent people not in uniform. I guess we can't rename the folder now, so maybe just make that the convention from now on? (Are there other rogue models? Can't remember now; Where were they?)

[Springheel]

So... there's going to be some arbitrariness no matter what you pick.

 

Seems that way.

 

I currently had her under "thief" in the editor, and since that's tied with commoner, I think I'll leave her there.

[Fidcal]

Come on now, we're talking where you'd look for an armed female in the entity list. So, an armed commoner can just be an armed commoner, or function as a guard for some low assignment (like guarding a barn but not guarding the king's chambers,) or she can function as a lone rogue, or she can be a thief. These all come under the umbrella of armed commoner but not vice versa. I don't want to look under thief for someone who might be a farm worker guarding the barn or just a tough honest commoner walking home in a tough area at night.

 

For me, this works...

 

armed commoner

__|_ armed commoner

__|_ guard

__|_ thief

__|_ rogue

 

But this does not...

 

guard

__|_ thief

__|_ rogue

__|_ armed commoner (this is OK, guard on day off)

 

Nor this....

 

thief

__|_ guard

__|_ rogue (but not necessarily a thief)

__|_ armed commoner (we regard thieves as separate from commoners don't we?)

 

[Fidcal]

Just to clarify,

 

A thief is an armed commoner

A guard is an armed commoner

A rogue is an armed commoner

An armed commoner is an armed commoner

 

Notice they all fit loosely under the heading 'armed commoner'.

 

But...

 

An honest guard does not fit under the heading thief.

An honest armed commoner does not fit under the heading thief.

[Unwanted Guest]

I agree with Fidcal, was thinking along the same idea.

 

This is very good work, though....is her neck just a little too long with respect to other proportions?

Or do you need a long neck to easily switch heads? - boy that sounds weird!

 

 

 

[Springheel]

Notice they all fit loosely under the heading 'armed commoner'

 

The more characters that fit under a category, the less useful the category becomes, IMO.

 

Currently, any character that looks like they make their living from fighting is under guards (including the thug). Any character wearing no armour at all (and that isn't obviously a nobleman or builder or some other category) is under townsfolk.

 

If it were just a choice between those two, I would put her under guards.

 

The Thief folder complicates things. The characters in there are basically armed commoners with hoods. In fact, the only reason we have a separate folder for that is to set the Team spawnarg, isn't it?

 

We probably need to do an overhaul of the folder organization for AI. Anyone that is so inclined, feel free to post your suggestions for an ideal organizational structure.

[SiyahParsomen]

She's in contradiction with her clothes. That's why you can't decide. Since this is the case, it's not reasonable (for me) to put her in any specific field. I can imagine her even as a guard but not a thief. Besides, she doesn't wear cloak or hood. Then, best choice is commoner which represents the general.

[Bikerdude]

take away the sword and the trousers and you have a bar wench.

[Midnight]

In my mind, 'Commoner' is almost akin to 'Civilian' - so unarmed NPCs with no affiliation to builders or guards, 'Thief' is any rogue type character (rogue, smuggler, thief) - typically armed though not necessarily, and guard is where armed NPCs within an official organisation go (i.e. builders and city watch).

 

If there were a folder name change in the works, then given the above definitions I would suggest 'Civilian', 'Rogue', and 'Guard' to cover these three archetypes, however, keeping 'Thief' and 'Commoner' doesn't seem like a big deal IMHO if it causes less hassle than changing things.

[Springheel]

take away the sword and the trousers and you have a bar wench.

 

Yeah, her.

 

[ocn]

Townsfolk for me. To me she doesen't appear to be neither a guard nor a thief, and the townsfolk category seems to encompass a lot of different looking people.