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Thief 2 / SS2 / Deep Cover Source


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#1 jaxa

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Posted 09 December 2010 - 11:40 PM

History

On December 4, a package with source code for Thief 2, System Shock 2, and the unfinished Dark Engine game known as "Deep Cover" was released. The TTLG community is now evaluating the source and the way forward. No word yet from Eidos/Enix.

Dreamcast beta of System Shock 2 port found - UPDATE: Source files found
http://www.systemsho...g22406#msg22406
Original thread: http://dreamcast-tal....php?f=2&t=2047
CD discovery: http://dreamcast-tal...?p=28212#p28212

Deep Cover screenshots: http://www.something...ttlg/deepcover/

Thief Series General Discussion

The petition for Thief 1&2 source publication (page 31)
http://www.ttlg.com/...=126456&page=31

The Editors' Guild (Thief 1 & 2)


Thief 2 source code...leaked.
http://www.ttlg.com/...ad.php?t=134091

Dark source - Technical Discussion
http://www.ttlg.com/...ad.php?t=134092

Shock 1 & 2 General Discussion

Shock2-Beta For Dreamcast Found.
http://www.ttlg.com/...ad.php?t=132035



Edited by greebo, 18 December 2010 - 07:13 AM.


#2 Aprilsister

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 12:05 AM

Sigh... the best we can hope for is that nobody is overly distracted by this for very long.

#3 rich_is_bored

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 12:46 AM

I'm not sure why people are talking about setting up a version control system. It's a leak not open source. I guess they'll figure it out when they get a "cease and desist" letter in the mail.

#4 greebo

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 01:21 AM

I already spent an hour or so skimming through these source files, it's definitely an interesting read. I could load it up and convert it to VC++ 2010 without a problem, but the custom build commands are not working and a few headers are missing. Don't know how much is really lacking, but I guess it can be hacked together.

And I'd be very careful uploading that code to sourceforge, unless I get the official green light to do so.

#5 Serpentine

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 05:24 AM

Yeah, it's pretty unstructured. I just hope people will not bother on trying to revive the render and rather work to port the core which for the most part seems very portable, tho some of the code is pretty badly written and it seems at least one of the devs doesn't like C at all and rages in comments :D

Very interesting to read some parts, a nice way to try reverse design choices and such... couldnt have happened at a better time

#6 MoroseTroll

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 08:19 AM

Downloading the source... Still, I can't believe this happened! Fucking Eidos would never do that! Thanks god, some people can dig deeper than I can.

#7 greebo

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 11:40 AM

Anybody else who finds that the story of how this certain CD was found is most amazing? It's sheer luck that this guy still found that CD in his bedroom after 4 years (it could have been lost or unreadable by that time) - even suggesting him to look for it in the first place was a lucky one. And that guy just found it because he was looking for some other CD months later - don't we all know that? Fascinating, this.

#8 New Horizon

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 11:46 AM

Anybody else who finds that the story of how this certain CD was found is most amazing? It's sheer luck that this guy still found that CD in his bedroom after 4 years (it could have been lost or unreadable by that time) - even suggesting him to look for it in the first place was a lucky one. And that guy just found it because he was looking for some other CD months later - don't we all know that? Fascinating, this.


I missed that. Where did you read that Greebo?

#9 greebo

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 11:48 AM

The first post in this thread links to a thread whose first post links to that discussion:

http://dreamcast-tal....php?f=2&t=2047

It's going for 24 pages, but it's enough if one skims it and reads the posts by game_player_s.

edit: here's the link to the post reporting that he found the CD http://dreamcast-tal...?p=28212#p28212

#10 Melan

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 11:49 AM

It is a "we have to bring in that Assange fellow for... rape. Yup, rape." kind of coincidence. ^_^
Come the time of peril, did the ground gape, and did the dead rest unquiet 'gainst us. Our bands of iron and hammers of stone prevailed not, and some did doubt the Builder's plan. But the seals held strong, and the few did triumph, and the doubters were lain into the foundations of the new sanctum. -- Collected letters of the Smith-in-Exile, Civitas Approved

#11 Tels

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 11:50 AM

The first post in this thread links to a thread whose first post links to that discussion:

http://dreamcast-tal....php?f=2&t=2047

It's going for 24 pages, but it's enough if one skims it and reads the posts by game_player_s.


I thought he pulled the data of an old SCSI disk (with 4Gb no less) and not a CD?
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man." -- George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950)

"Remember: If the game lets you do it, it's not cheating." -- Xarax

#12 greebo

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 11:55 AM

I thought he pulled the data of an old SCSI disk (with 4Gb no less) and not a CD?

Nope, the HD was already searched back in April/May. It was only recently he stumbled over the CD that was in the same dev box. IIRC the folks in that thread told him to look for it because some other guy also bought a dev kit and there was a CD with a SDK on it, or something like that. He was hoping for that SDK, but found the sources TTLG had been seeking after for years.

edit: might be wrong on the SDK. He was just told to look for the CD.

#13 Bikerdude

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 12:30 PM

well hopefully we get the green light on this, who has anyoner emailed eidos on this..?

#14 jaxa

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 12:38 PM

well hopefully we get the green light on this, who has anyoner emailed eidos on this..?


I'm sure someone has but the general sentiment at TTLG seems to be "Eidos sat on the code for months, so bother with the confirmation later." The code is still going to get some use even if there is no green light, although a green light would be preferable. For now, no Slashdot stories or petitions, just experimentation. Additionally, it's unclear whether what Eidos has is identical to the release or more complete.

Already limits to polygons, brushes, etc. have been identified in the source.

#15 New Horizon

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 12:52 PM

I'm sure someone has but the general sentiment at TTLG seems to be "Eidos sat on the code for months...


I feel that way. They'll find out in due time...but after having the code handed to them, and then shutting out the very people who gave it to them...I'm in no hurry to tell them. lol

#16 Noisycricket

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 12:54 PM

Im surprised we have links to it here.

#17 lost_soul

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 02:43 PM

I'm with the croud who is sad that the Thief community is already trying to mess with this stuff, but most never contributed to TDM. If they wanted a next-generation, cross-platform, completely moddable and non-sabotaged by the XBOX stealth game, it is already here. I would still like to see dark engine code sanctioned and a native version of the older games for my platform, but nobody is seriously going to attempt to give Thief a graphical makeover at this point, are they? It is re-doing work that has already been done. It is clinging to the shackles of a proprietary product when a free and more advanced alternative is available.

I can just imagine where we would be if the whole of TTLG had jumped on TDM from the get-go. We would have tuns of vocal sets, both female and male and more FMs. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate everything you all have done here very much. It would just be like having twenty people building a house instead of ten.

At least I know this whole ordeal won't affect TDM 1.03. I'm looking forward to that at the end of the month very much!

--- War does not decide who is right, war decides who is left.


#18 LEGION

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 03:46 PM

Whatīs with the story that the code was accidentally sold on an HD some time ago? Ok, this here is DreamCast-Port-stuff, but still under the same copyright, eh? Fill in my blanks, please. :blush:

#19 New Horizon

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 03:52 PM

Greebo posted the relevant links here.
http://forums.thedar...post__p__240073

Basically, some guy bought a dreamcast dev kit awhile ago. The hard drive contained unfinished versions of Thief and SS2 that were being ported to Dreamcast.

Recently, someone who had purchased an old dev kit for another game told him to check and see if any CD's came with the Dev Kit, because he found an SDK with his kit. Lo' and behold...the sources were on a CD.

#20 LEGION

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 03:57 PM

No, I meant that much older story that stumpy or Lost-Soul (has to be one of them) mentioned a couple of weeks/months ago. The story was that the Thief-code (which game I donīt know) was accidentally sold by Eidos (?) on an old HD they wanted to get rid off. So, if itīs sold, the copyright is sold with it, right? If the story is true, though...

#21 New Horizon

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 04:06 PM

No, I meant that much older story that stumpy or Lost-Soul (has to be one of them) mentioned a couple of weeks/months ago. The story was that the Thief-code (which game I don´t know) was accidentally sold by Eidos (?) on an old HD they wanted to get rid off. So, if it´s sold, the copyright is sold with it, right? If the story is true, though...


lol No. That's not exactly how copyright works. Whoever bought it owns the CD it came on, but the actual code is still intellectual property of Eidos. It's not like the person paid a licensing fee or something. I didn't think this was sold to someone by Eidos though....I thought it just came from some third party who happened to have it.

#22 Tels

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 04:12 PM

I'm with the croud who is sad that the Thief community is already trying to mess with this stuff, but most never contributed to TDM. If they wanted a next-generation, cross-platform, completely moddable and non-sabotaged by the XBOX stealth game, it is already here. I would still like to see dark engine code sanctioned and a native version of the older games for my platform, but nobody is seriously going to attempt to give Thief a graphical makeover at this point, are they? It is re-doing work that has already been done. It is clinging to the shackles of a proprietary product when a free and more advanced alternative is available.

I can just imagine where we would be if the whole of TTLG had jumped on TDM from the get-go. We would have tuns of vocal sets, both female and male and more FMs. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate everything you all have done here very much. It would just be like having twenty people building a house instead of ten.
at at the end of the month very much!


I think I can speak for the team (e.g. anyone who ever contributed to TDM) that we certainly would not have minded any help or support, regardless wether it came from totaly strangers, Thief fans, or aliens :) And I am certain that we would not feel that our work is dimished if there are more people contributing!
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man." -- George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950)

"Remember: If the game lets you do it, it's not cheating." -- Xarax

#23 jtr7

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 10:34 PM

lost_soul, I think you greatly overestimate how many of the people posting, downloading, and sifting through it are capable of doing anything useful with it. I'm excited as hell, and have nothing to offer a team, especially a team that is wisely avoiding Thief canon. Several of the talks I've been in about this leak have involved mostly people who can't do anything but look through it and fiddle with it, and have no time to do anything even if they wanted to. Some are going to school, others are booked up with work, and can't get too distracted by this. There are a lot of wishful thoughts right now. Most people don't have the setup for recording vocals, etc. Most of us who aren't already involved in several projects, are cheerleading and not really qualified to do squat.

Edited by jtr7, 10 December 2010 - 10:35 PM.

A skunk was badgered--the results were strong.
I hope that something better comes along.

#24 lost_soul

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 11:26 PM

Ya know, it is funny. I was reading the recently opened thread about this in the TTLG editor's guild forum. The way people are talking about it, you'd think this was officially released.

What exactly are Eidos's options at this point? They could eather fight the fire with a legal extinguisher, probably enraging the Thief community in the process. This would certainly turn off some folks from buying Thief 4.

or

They could legally sanction this and make everyone happy. This may be impossible though, if there is someone else's imaginary property in the code that they had to license during development.

or

Posted Image
(image credit: Wikipedia)

They could just sit back and do nothing. In this last scenario, at least people will be able to enjoy an updated version of the games five million years from now when imaginary property rights stop being continuously extended. Sadly, this means that we wouldn't ever get to enjoy a fixed-up version of the games in our lifetimes.

Are there any outcomes that I've missed?

Edited by lost_soul, 10 December 2010 - 11:45 PM.

--- War does not decide who is right, war decides who is left.


#25 rich_is_bored

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Posted 11 December 2010 - 02:53 AM

Has anyone successfully compiled it? If people can't produce a binary, absolutely nothing will happen.




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