TDM Combat

[AluminumHaste]

No lol, I love auto-parry, that would be impossible without it.

[Springheel]

The issue with guards stopping in place when they start to swing has been fixed for 2.01, so it will be interesting to see if that's still possible.

[AluminumHaste]

I was just thinking that guards stopping to swing is making it easier, glad to see that it's going to be fixed. Have those changes been commited yet? I would love to test them for you.

[Springheel]

Yes, they're on SVN: http://forums.thedarkmod.com/topic/15601-combat-issues/page__pid__326913#entry326913

[AluminumHaste]

Excellent will try those out tomorrow some time.

[SirGen]

I look forward to facing more agile opponents. This should solve my issue of being able to avoid a lot of enemy attacks by simply walking backwards

[Sotha]

Aand record a video for us to see how the AI fares with the improvement!

[AluminumHaste]

Okay I was still able to do it, but it was harder. There's some things that could be changed to make exploitation less useful, but I was able to take on 3 at once, then 6 at once. Might try 12 at once.

[SirGen]

Even with auto-parry enabled, that is still quite impressive! I can't wait to try it out!

[SirGen]

Aand record a video for us to see how the AI fares with the improvement!

Yes please

[AluminumHaste]

It's uploading now will be ready in about 2 hours. Lol I can already see Springheels facepalm now.

[SirGen]

It's uploading now will be ready in about 2 hours. Lol I can already see Springheels facepalm now.

LOL I'll be back in a bit to watch Now don't provoke Springheel to make it too hard for us Edited November 23, 2013 by SirGen

[demagogue]

I think with the fix it's plenty hard now and people should feel accomplished being able to hack their way through all the guards in a level.

[AluminumHaste]

[SirGen]

Impressive combat skills! Since there are rarely ever areas that large and open, I think that combat will be even more challenging in most fan missions.

 

I really like the new slashing sounds. The old ones sounded like you were hitting the enemy with a blunt object.

 

Fire arrows LOL

Edited November 23, 2013 by SirGen

[Sotha]

Yep, now it looks pretty good. Even with that exploitative movement pattern you got hit a few times and like SG said, there is no way player could do that in an ordinary map.

 

The key thing in TDM AI is that it is supposed to be deadly and the player should win only with the element of surprise and by controlling the amount of enemies that are aware of him simultaneously.

[Springheel]

[Darth Vader voice] Impressive. You have learned much.

 

[AluminumHaste]

I just want to reiterate that the ai are incredibly impressive in dealing with each other and not getting stuck on each other.

[AluminumHaste]

Okay last one I swear lol, 9v1 at once. Any more and the computer/game chops too much and I can't move/fight.

Will upload the video at work. I think the AI are still dealing too little damage though.

 

The AI in these videos are Commoners, Armed->Citywatch->atdm:ai_citywatch

 

I'm not sure if they do less damage then the elite guards.

[AluminumHaste]

Alright last one lol

 

[SirGen]

I think the AI are still dealing too little damage though.

 

The AI in these videos are Commoners, Armed->Citywatch->atdm:ai_citywatch

 

I'm not sure if they do less damage then the elite guards.

I agree that the enemies deal too little damage. If I counted right, you got hit 5 times, and the 6th likely would have killed you. Regardless of the enemy type, the weapon being used against the player, or the combat difficulty setting; I think that the most amount of attacks that it should take to kill the player should be 4, and the least should be 1.

 

I hope this makes sense. It's been a long work week, and I'm very tired.

 

Again, good fight!

[Xarg]

That's weird, normally when I get hit it's a 2 shots and I'm dead deal. Are there any variables at play here? Maybe that guard type needs to go to the gym more?

[demagogue]

That's weird, normally when I get hit it's a 2 shots and I'm dead deal. Are there any variables at play here? Maybe that guard type needs to go to the gym more?

 

The original damage model was ~4 hits. Then there was a bug (more like unintended side effect of another fix) in 2.0, or maybe from 1.8, that cut it down to 2 hits, which was felt to be too harsh. That bug has been fixed in the SVN for 2.01, the version AH is playing here, putting it back to the old model.

 

Edit: I think it's the right range here. Keep in mind a player playing a 2-3 hour FM. Five hits +/- 1 is a pretty good range for a player trying to ironman through it, if you think about everything they're dealing with in that kind of time.

[SirGen]

That's weird, normally when I get hit it's a 2 shots and I'm dead deal. Are there any variables at play here? Maybe that guard type needs to go to the gym more?

Yeah, in 2.0, I die in 1 or 2 hits as well. In AluminumHaste's latest video he took 5 hits, and judging by his remaining health, the 6th would have killed him.

Edit: I think it's the right range here. Keep in mind a player playing a 2-3 hour FM. Five hits +/- 1 is a pretty good range for a player trying to ironman through it, if you think about everything they're dealing with in that kind of time.

I guess it's a pretty good range on normal combat difficulty, considering the point you just made. I do think that a 1-4 hit range would be a nice for harder difficulties though. Edited November 24, 2013 by SirGen

[RPGista]

Definetely. I seem to remember AI with higher skillset levels to be supposed to deal more damage per blow. Weapons are also supposed deal different damage values (dagger, long sword, axe, etc). Finally, combat difficulty would add to that. So again, things should depend a lot on what the mapper designs, but in hardest, I see two hits as being enough against elite, well armed fighters (one a warning shot, the other the final). If fights are highly fatal (should be for both sides as before, imo, unfortunately, the odds are unfairly stacking against the player, who gets weaker as the ai gets stronger in higher difficulty levels), the player should have every reason to be good at it in order to survive and, keep them to a minimum. Again, we are talking about those who choose to play on high difficulty.

 

This reminds me that although these videos from AH are cool to watch, it is hard to say how challenging te ai really is offensively with auto parry on. In this regard, Sirgen's video is more accurate, and you can see how hard it can be against multiple enemies without it. Now, without being able to take down a foe with a single accurate hit, it is pretty much impossible for you to beat 3 or more armored guards in no-help fights.