Promotion and what-not

[Shadowhide]

why the hell there is no news about this mission over moddb ? we have worked hard on it

 

such attention makes me want to build 10 more TDM missions,yes

 

 

Edited August 9, 2011 by Shadowhide

[Springheel]

Re-releases and bug-fixes of existing missions are hardly exciting news.

[Shadowhide]

Re-releases and bug-fixes of existing missions are hardly exciting news.

 

there was nothing even for first version

 

 

anyway,RTTCv2 screens was posted even before release

Edited August 9, 2011 by Shadowhide

[Springheel]

there wasn't nothing even for first version

 

Look again.

 

http://www.moddb.com/mods/the-dark-mod/news/winter-harvest-released

[Shadowhide]

Look again.

 

http://www.moddb.com...arvest-released

actually,grass test map has a longer article with cool screenshots

 

 

anyway,i've also seen nbohr didn't recommend to play this mission over ttlg.probably i shouldn't even touch DR

 

 

[nbohr1more]

BikerDude also fixed St Alban's Cathedral and I didn't create an article.

 

Melan and Biker's collaboration to fix RTTC was noteworthy because it was unplayable for a great number of users and it was one of the first contest entries to be revised to this extent.

 

I did update the existing article about the mission and added the actual file to the Add-Ons area.

 

(I hope you appreciate that your mission, as a Add-on download at Moddb, is now front and center as a representative of the mod now, I took it on faith that BikerDude and you resolved the major concerns with that update version.)

 

What would be cool is if I had some updated screenshots to promote this. That should drive up the views.

 

Right now, the Doom 3 source news is driving news to the site like crazy.

[nbohr1more]

actually,grass test map has a longer article with cool screenshots

 

 

anyway,i've also seen nbohr didn't recommend to play this mission over ttlg.probably i shouldn't even touch DR

 

 

 

 

I didn't recommend against the mission, I explained that the mission breaks the normal player expectation which is something that many players have expressed dismay over. In the same vein, I said that players that aren't puzzle oriented might not like Stumpy's missions. There are folks who rate Stumpy's missions at the top of their list, likewise there may be players who rate your mission highly.

Edited August 9, 2011 by nbohr1more

[Shadowhide]

I didn't recommend against the mission

 

should i find a ttlg thread ?

 

 

[nbohr1more]

You'll also see that PranQster's mission does not have a release article. I am concerned that such a poorly optimized mission as PranQster's would lead to a poor impression of what the mod would run like overall. Your mission made it past that hurdle but it still is a complete violation of the expected play style so players who judge TDM by it are completely uncalibrated to what a normal TDM mission should be like. Yet you have the favored status of BOTH an article and dedicated download.

 

I hope this clears-up your persecution complex.

[Shadowhide]

I hope this clears-up your persecution complex.

 

errmmh ok

 

 

[nbohr1more]

should i find a ttlg thread ?

 

 

 

 

Here:

 

 

Really, given the percentage of quality missions, the pertinent question should be "which missions should I avoid?"

 

I would not feel comfortable offering too many of those. I can only suggest that "Winter Harvest" is not a conventional mission and will frustrate players who try to go by standard player conventions. Stumpy's missions, thus far, are often very puzzle oriented and can be frustrating for players that don't like either key hunts or mazes or conditional progress.

 

 

Given the feedback, I would (unfortunately) add Fieldmedic's latest mission to the list for a similar reason as yours... though Fieldmedic was at least somewhat closer to a conventional TDM mission and he was very forthright about how to approach the mission to players (with detailed instruction).

[Shadowhide]

players who try to go by standard player conventions

you know,players who played Thief before (not like you),can love that.Heard about all crazy'ness of T1 OM "The Sword" ?

casual tdm players giving highest score to knighton manor which is looks worse than T1 OM

anyway,mod tam and promoters should appreciate anything created for mod.For example PranQSter's mission is fully playable for me and also i found PranQSter's much better than knighton manor . As for Fieldmedic's daylight mission : as player,I like it very much.Very nice and clever mission

[Springheel]

you know,players who played Thief before (not like you),can love that.Heard about all crazy'ness of T1 OM "The Sword" ?

 

The difference is that your mission is unplayable unless you do something that Thief players are trained NOT to do--go right up and stand in front of AI. Not only that, but the first release was full of bugs and reports of player frustration were quite common. Given all that, Nbhor's comment was entirely valid.

 

anyway,mod tam and promoters should appreciate anything created for mod

 

Players generally do appreciate anything created for the mod. But Moddb is primarily for advertising and promotion to people who don't know much about TDM, so any updates there should show TDM in the best light possible.

[New Horizon]

A little humility will go a long way toward earning the respect of our peers, more so than when we demand it of them. Consider that as a lesson I've learned, rather than an insult.

[Bikerdude]

(I hope you appreciate that your mission, as a Add-on download at Moddb, is now front and center as a representative of the mod now, I took it on faith that BikerDude and you resolved the major concerns with that update version.

 

I only did the graphics side of it, I did try and get young SH do revise the storey so player would be easier able to understand what they needed to do to complete the mission.... but it wasn't my map.... In my view this side of of it still needs updating/fixing....

 

If SH ever adandon's this map I will take it over and effect the above.

[Shadowhide]

have nothing to say,nbohr ?

[Shadowhide]

Again, your mission would probably get one more star in the ranks if you had recommended that players talk to the NPC's somehow. I see that the surprise of learning that an NPC is friendly is a strange reward of it's own but most would not feel the frustration of wandering the map until they stumble-upon that insight to be fun. I can only imagine this working if you box the player in close quarters so the discovery is quick. I am probably a weirdo because I simply enjoyed soaking in the strange forest atmosphere and the zen-like mood until I discovered the trick.

 

I dont want to protect my mission,it fairly sucks. For example Fieldmedics mission showing some nice daylight locations along with stealth . If you add this mission to moddb,you can show how many-sided TDM could be.Also ALOT of TDM folks have a VERY STRANGE fm taste

 

Look, I even defended your work against Aidakeeley's merciless criticism of it.

 

??? isn't Aidakeeley leave ?

 

Spitter never finished his TDM mission for that very reason, he was sick of Thief style games and that is a REAL shame.

 

if he was sick of Thief style games,why do he created few T2 fm's ? (and maybe some T1 ones.I dont remember)

 

Don't get me wrong, if someone comes along with a TDM version of "Tales of the Penitent Thief" I will eat that up. But that is not what is needed now...

 

this is making me angry... why the fu hell dont you try T2 version of it ? it looks and plays much better than knighton manor for example

 

 

[New Horizon]

 

this is making me angry... why the fu hell dont you try T2 version of it ? it looks and plays much better than knighton manor for example

 

I think the point is that he 'has' tried it and is saying that if someone comes out with mission in TDM that 'does what that mission did' then he would enjoy it.

[Springheel]

For example Fieldmedics mission showing some nice daylight locations along with stealth . If you add this mission to moddb,you can show how many-sided TDM could be.Also ALOT of TDM folks have a VERY STRANGE fm taste

 

Fieldmedic's mission is ALREADY on Moddb.

 

http://www.moddb.com/mods/the-dark-mod/news/june-mega-update

 

Maybe you should actually take a good look at the site before making any more complaints.

[Shadowhide]

Fieldmedic's mission is ALREADY on Moddb.

 

http://www.moddb.com...une-mega-update

 

Maybe you should actually take a good look at the site before making any more complaints.

ahh yes,didn't saw it before

 

sorry

Edited August 10, 2011 by Shadowhide

[PranQster]

You'll also see that PranQster's mission does not have a release article...

 

I'm not intending to hijack this post thread, but this is the first time I have heard of a "release article" . Can somebody point me in the right direction so I know what I did wrong (apart from the performance optimization problems ). I thought I had done all that the wiki said to do to when packaging the mission and saw no info regarding a release article.

Edited August 11, 2011 by PranQster

[nbohr1more]

I'm not intending to hijack this post thread, but this is the first time I have heard of a "release article" . Can somebody point me in the right direction so I know what I did wrong (apart from the performance optimization problems ). I thought I had done all that the wiki said to do to when packaging the mission and saw no info regarding a release article.

 

My apologies PranQster.

 

The release article referred to here is a promotional article at Moddb.

 

Until my appointment, Moddb was only updated when TDM Team activities or significant events (like contests etc) happened. I have been increasing exposure by created mission release articles at Moddb.

 

I omitted your mission because it was literally unplayable for me. Some of the missions I consider "playable" have have an average of about 8FPS in most places... In other words, my definition of playable is much more lenient than others... especially folks who require 60FPS at all times.

 

The minimum hardware requirement, to my knowledge, was a 2.8ghz CPU and something around a Geforce 6200. "Tears of St Lucia" is meant to be the measuring stick. Now if something like Johannes Burrock's mission is heavier than that, it makes sense for the requirement to be higher... but AFAIK this mission should not perform the way it does.

 

I have heard that this is a fun mission, so I suppose that an article might be in order anyway. I will just need to warn folks on the low-end about this. In reality, your release was close enough to Springheel's where I didn't have time to squeeze it in.

 

I have been agonizing over this since I first played the mission because folks (like ShadowHide ) are CONSTANTLY accusing The Dark Mod of being poorly optimized. If the team has to hear yet again from some punk about "how poorly they coded the mod" because some mission author released a poorly optimized mission I will feel very bad about promoting "said mission". I started looking into the state of your map but haven't had the time to parse it in detail. I hammered Fieldmedic about the performance of "Betrayal" only to find that it was the number of AI rather than the construction quality that was affecting performance. (Knowing that, I would promote that mission in a heart-beat.) I know that you made many custom scripts for this mission so I would not be surprised to find that all those script actions are just too CPU intensive. My gut says that the lack of Brush Carving on large walls and the light count errors I got indicate that lighting is not optimized. (further reinforced by the fact that Killmonsters had NO effect on performance) The simple but clean look is very nice but would be deceiving to folks gauging the mod. The average joe will play this and say "If something this plain performs like this, imagine what a really detailed mission like RTTC or St Alban's will perform like..."

 

So you see my hesitation. Is the potential blow-back worth the potential promotion?

Edited August 11, 2011 by nbohr1more

[Springheel]

Moddb is not about promoting any particular mission. It is about promoting TDM to new players, and not all missions do that especially well. There should be no requirement or expectation that all missions will get some kind of article on moddb, IMO.

[Sotha]

Moddb is not about promoting any particular mission. It is about promoting TDM to new players, and not all missions do that especially well. There should be no requirement or expectation that all missions will get some kind of article on moddb, IMO.

 

I couldn't agree more. FMA's should not expect any moddb coverage by default and nobody should demand nborh any explanations (nor cry about) why their work was not covered in moddb.

 

Moddb articles should be made only about the top-notch-most-community-praised missions. It is those top missions that sell TDM the best. Average or even below average missions could even me damaging to the TDM image.

 

But that is my opinion. Ultimately it is nbohr's and the team's decision.

[Aprilsister]

Reap and Siege Shop still haven't even been made available to the in-game downloader.

 

This kind of ill-consideration, combined with some of the recent arrogant, flippant and cliquish commentary (quite contrary to the once and future promote-every-chance-we-get practice that gave rise to the moddb push), sure seems a perfectly lovely way to accomplish what I always thought nbohr was (rightly and thankfully) up to...

 

Or, rather, not.

 

It seems pretty fucked up to have new FMAs subjected to such disregard.

 

Or, rather, it is pretty fucked up.