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TDM Beginners Contest


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#1 Sir Taffsalot

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Posted 10 December 2011 - 03:34 AM

The Dark Mod Beginners Contest


Start date - 12/12/2011
Completion date - 12/04/2012
(British calender so that's 4 months after 12/12/2011)

Requirements:
Size - 10 rooms which can include city streets. Including more than 10 rooms is fine within reason.
Theme - Any theme is fine.

Some things you might need:
If your stuck on anything please ask in the TDM editors guild. Everyones very helpful and you usually get a quick reply

Contestants so far:
  • RPGista
  • acolyte6
  • Xarg
  • Sixx
  • SeriousToni
  • Brethren
  • jysk
  • Jay Pettitt
  • PeterDotJPG

Edited by Sir Taffsalot, 06 February 2012 - 02:21 AM.

  • SiyahParsomen likes this
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#2 SiyahParsomen

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Posted 10 December 2011 - 05:22 AM

http://taffersparadise.com/ is organizing newbie contest. Seems like no interest due to lack of promotion I guess.

#3 Shadowhide

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Posted 10 December 2011 - 05:23 AM

more like TDM Discrimination Contest
Proceed with caution!

#4 Sir Taffsalot

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Posted 10 December 2011 - 05:54 AM

Good stuff Lord Soth. I couldn't see anything official on the TDM website though. If I've missed it then my apologies.
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#5 SiyahParsomen

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Posted 10 December 2011 - 06:36 AM

Good stuff Lord Soth. I couldn't see anything official on the TDM website though. If I've missed it then my apologies.


There isn't any info about it.

#6 RPGista

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Posted 10 December 2011 - 08:08 AM

I would be certainly willing if there are more interested people! A friendly competition would be a good way for guys like me, creating their first missions, to share information and organize efforts.

#7 Baddcog

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Posted 10 December 2011 - 12:17 PM

more like TDM Discrimination Contest


Whoop whoop whoop, always good to have a peanut gallery.

Does it really matter? Would you enter anyway?
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#8 Shadowhide

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Posted 10 December 2011 - 12:31 PM

Whoop whoop whoop, always good to have a peanut gallery.

Does it really matter? Would you enter anyway?

nah,i suck, but possibly some of mappers who released missions already wants to join another contest
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#9 acolyte6

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Posted 10 December 2011 - 12:44 PM

Well I'm game :)

I just started the tutorials today. You should probably put the link to Komag's Video tutorials as well. I found them very helpful :)

http://www.youtube.c...ature=watch#p/u

4 months you say? In that time I'll probably be on my 2nd since I have 1 month of absolutely nothing else to do and just in Komag's 3 starter
tutorials this can get very addicting ;)
How big can it be? details...details while you guys work all that out I'm gonna go build something LoL
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#10 Sir Taffsalot

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Posted 10 December 2011 - 12:59 PM

OK RPGista and acolyte6. 2 is a good start. If we could get at least 2 more people interested we could make this offical. I think at least 4 people is enough to make an interesting contest.

As for the size 5000x5000x5000? I'm only applying a size limit because if someone hasn't done a TDM FM before they might not know how long it takes to do certain things and might start building something that can't be completed before the dead line.

The theme can be absolutely anything.
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#11 demagogue

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Posted 10 December 2011 - 12:59 PM

Good stuff Lord Soth. I couldn't see anything official on the TDM website though. If I've missed it then my apologies.


I say just PM the TaffersParadise guy and combine forces. He also wanted to do a newbie contest, so it all adds up to the same thing. All these contests run pretty much the same anyway, canvass for people, set a deadline and any theme or restrictions, then have a voting period on the forums.
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#12 Springheel

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Posted 10 December 2011 - 01:18 PM

As for the size 5000x5000x5000? I'm only applying a size limit because if someone hasn't done a TDM FM before they might not know how long it takes to do certain things and might start building something that can't be completed before the dead line.


The number one problem mappers face is getting too ambitious and planning things that are too large and/or complicated. Even seasoned mappers fall prey to this problem. There are plenty of excellent maps out there that are quite small--The Outpost, Too Late, The Parcel, Fauchard Street, Glenham Tower, etc. But I bet they're outnumbered by the number of maps that people started but never finished because they got too unwieldy.

I'd personally choose a much smaller size limit for a first map. In fact, I'd recommend setting up a size limit based on "rooms", which will encourage thinking in terms of enclosed areas that are easy to visportal. Maybe two large "rooms" (which could also be outdoor areas) and 8 smaller "rooms" max. Hallways/streets don't count.

That is a little easier to imagine and plan for than units X,Y,Z, IMO. And that's actually slightly larger than many of the maps I listed above. For comparison, Thief's Den (the map the A to Z guide is based on) would have only 1 large room and 4 small rooms.

#13 lost_soul

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Posted 10 December 2011 - 01:21 PM

As a player, I think its a great idea. Don't be afraid that we'll vote/compare these against missions from experienced mappers.

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#14 demagogue

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Posted 10 December 2011 - 01:55 PM

What Springheel mentioned is how the betamappers were told to build our first maps and it is really useful. 10 rooms is a standard contest sized FM; 15 rooms would be a big contest sized FM. It's not as easy to police, but it's most useful to a newbie thinking about how big to imagine their FM to be... And you'd police it very loosely anyway, as long as it's within reason.
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#15 Sotha

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Posted 10 December 2011 - 02:14 PM

That is a little easier to imagine and plan for than units X,Y,Z, IMO. And that's actually slightly larger than many of the maps I listed above. For comparison, Thief's Den (the map the A to Z guide is based on) would have only 1 large room and 4 small rooms.


The above sounds much more reasonable than 5k units, which is humongous.

If you want to put Spring's suggestion into units x,y,z, I would think something like a 1024x1024 build area maximum would be good. This is exactly the size of the playable area outside Glenham Tower. The yard area around the tower I mean. That is plenty to do pretty much anything. And it will save the mapper from biting more they can chew.

The limit would not be strict, but more of a guideline. I'm also not imposing limits to the map aspect ratio, just giving a suggestion for the area.

Few rooms and corridors, build inside 1024x1024 or similar. Totally manageable as long as people plan their work before mapping.
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#16 RPGista

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Posted 10 December 2011 - 02:15 PM

I know that Thor is/was messing around and designing his first mission too. This would be a good time for any new mapper out there considering or already experimenting with your first mission to "come out of the closet", I think this would be fun, and having a formal place to come and share experiences/doubts could be a good way to work on this, instead of alone. Like I said before, a time budget is often what you need to produce things without unneeded sidetracking, and we have all seen here in the forums that TDM competitions are friendly and fun gatherings where everyone help and motivate each other, so thats a plus as well.

I have my mission all drawn by hand, including main buildings, plans, etc. I strongly suggest anyone to do this, as I found it a great way to advance and organize your efforts. Drawing things by hand is easy and a great guide to constructing it in the editor. I for one have always been unable to create stuff directly in the computer. ;)

#17 Sir Taffsalot

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Posted 10 December 2011 - 03:26 PM

shall we go for a 1024x1024x1024 limit then? For me persanlly I find it easier to imagine a map in terms of scale rather than rooms.
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#18 RPGista

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Posted 10 December 2011 - 04:15 PM

Hmmm... Sorry guys, but I did some volume tests for my mission (basicly putting together big blocks to simulate the whole thing) and it is about a 4000 x 4000 area, so I'm afraid I wouldnt be included in that limit... The architecture obvisouly doesnt cover that entire area, the map is basicly in L shape, a long walk before you reach your objective (a bit like Saint Lucia)... Could we make the limit just a suggestion?

#19 Baddcog

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Posted 10 December 2011 - 04:29 PM

That's the main problem with a size limit, you think in terms of a big square. That isn't always the most interesting layout and isn't the easiest to optimize.

It can easily lead to a big square with a building in the middle...

Komags old TF2 size limits were better because it was volume. You had like 4 40x40 blocks (measurement is completely different between the engines) that you could arrange however. a T, an L, a square...

I think having a loose recommendation is best. 'To keep it from getting out of control try to focus on 10 rooms'.etc...'build a small manor or a street with a few enterable houses'

Then just let the contestants work without limit in size or rooms.
--------

The vert contest had a limited horizontal space and it did force you to go vertical, but it also pigeon holed you some. I felt like I was stuck with a spiral pathway because I wanted some very large open areas. If the horizontal limits weren't there i could have snaked around more and made it more interesting imo.
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#20 Glyph Seeker

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Posted 10 December 2011 - 07:37 PM

@Badcog

Oh! I didn't realise that there was a horizontal axis limit... I thought you did a great job now - thinking that over, remembering the mission.
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#21 Shadowhide

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Posted 10 December 2011 - 07:55 PM

whats point of map size limit ?
Proceed with caution!

#22 Springheel

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Posted 10 December 2011 - 08:55 PM

whats point of map size limit ?




http://forums.thedarkmod.com/topic/13257-tdm-beginners-contest/page__view__findpost__p__272762

#23 demagogue

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Posted 11 December 2011 - 12:48 AM

That's the point for newbies.
For Komag's contests, what made the size restriction interesting (for other mappers anyway) was how clever you had to be to pack the most action into the tightest space.

But generally speaking, it encourages good planning and thinking about space. A lot of FMs have a lot of dead space, but contest missions are usually special in how well optimized & efficient they are with their space, to have a lot of good action and no dead space, and you can feel that efficiency playing them... Then you hope to see that kind of efficiency in normal FMs.
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#24 Xarg

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Posted 11 December 2011 - 01:14 AM

I've already got something I started on, but it's only the top floor of an inn, 4 rooms and a corridor really, if that isn't too much of a headstart, I think I'd be down for being included in the contest.

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#25 Sir Taffsalot

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Posted 11 December 2011 - 01:16 AM

OK then how about aiming for 10 rooms then? Obviously they can include streets for city missions. I think the 10 rooms limit should be a suggestion and not a requirement. If a few more rooms are added that's fine. I hope that makes room for your FM RPGista?
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