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Poll: Greenlight (93 member(s) have cast votes)

when we shall start presenting TDM on Steam Greenlight?

  1. Imediately, classified as the "concept". We will change that on "playable" after going standalone. We need to take advantage of the attention drawn to the greenlight. (23 votes [24.73%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 24.73%

  2. After going standalone. We dont want to present something that cant be playable at the moment (via Steam). (51 votes [54.84%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 54.84%

  3. Never. The competition is just too strong. (8 votes [8.60%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 8.60%

  4. Imediately, classified as the "playable" (DOOM 3 Steam version required). We need to take advantage of the attention drawn to the greenlight. (11 votes [11.83%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 11.83%

Vote

#26 AngelWolf

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 05:23 PM

Perhaps we could all vote on a new name? Dark World? The Dark Engine? Master of Shadows? Shades of Shadow? Steampunk Shadows?

Edited by AngelWolf, 31 August 2012 - 05:37 PM.

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#27 Springheel

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 05:25 PM

Perhaps we could all vote on a new name? Dark World? The Dark Engine? Master of Shadows? Shades of Shadow?


Sorry, but what the hell are you talking about?

I'm pretty sure I could put together a nice gameplay trailer Springheel.


That would be nice. The one I made is a bit low res:


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#28 AngelWolf

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 06:04 PM

I'm sorry. I was responding and agreeing with Tels that it's not really a mod anymore. When it goes standalone it might be time to rechristen it. I'm kinda liking Steampunk Shadows. Has a nice descriptive ring, like the name of a D & D campaign setting. Then we could use the name after the mission or campaign name.

A Score to Settle
A Steampunk Shadows Mission
By
Springheel

The Wild Eye
A Steampunk Shadows Campaign
By
Angelwolf
Taurus philosophy:
Give me a hammer and tell me I have 6 hours to break up a 2 inch thick layer of ice. As soon as you walk away I'm going to use some hot water and salt so I can take a nap for the remaining 5 and a half hours. Taureans hate wasting energy and if there's a more efficient way to do something they will find it.

#29 Springheel

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 06:06 PM

I'm sorry. I was responding and agreeing with Tels that it's not really a mod anymore. When it goes standalone it might be time to rechristen it


We've been using The Dark Mod for seven years now...I don't think a new name is very likely. I certainly wouldn't support it.
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TDM Missions:   A Score to Settle   *   A Reputation to Uphold   *   A New Job   *    A Matter of Hours
 
Video Series:   Springheel's Modules   *   Speedbuild Challenge   *   New Mappers Workshop  *   Building Traps

#30 New Horizon

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 07:19 PM

Just responding to a couple of points.

Name change: Certainly not!
Commercial game: NO!

Like it or not, TDM is still a modification of an existing engine. A Mod can mean many things. Some people associate mods as rinky dink little projects that reskin some models. While it is true that some mods are limited to that, a 'Total Conversion Mod' is nevertheless a mod. Some gamers don't understand that there are different levels of Mods.

#31 joao024

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 07:48 PM

You can't have too much interest in this project.

Whatever maximizes that interest (while saving face and keeping true to your principles--of course) you should do exactly that. It took me years (all of which I am remiss and ashamed of) to think of looking for this type of game.

#32 ungoliant

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 12:04 AM

When it goes standalone it might be time to rechristen it.

curb your enthusiasm. I'd recommend yielding some solid non-verbal contributions to the mod, in any capacity, before going all think tank.

I'm pretty sure I could put together a nice gameplay trailer Springheel. I was already planning it out as part of a social networking campaign.

This is a nice idea, but if you complete it I'd definitely run it by the team/community before throwing it out to the wild internet.

#33 pusianka

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 02:21 AM

Where is the trailer that used: "Pick locks not your nose in DAAAAARK MOOOOOOOOOOOOD!"


It was quite inspiring...

#34 Tels

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 03:02 AM

Just responding to a couple of points.

Name change: Certainly not!
Commercial game: NO!


Seconded. This will not happen for various reasons already explained.

Like it or not, TDM is still a modification of an existing engine. A Mod can mean many things. Some people associate mods as rinky dink little projects that reskin some models. While it is true that some mods are limited to that, a 'Total Conversion Mod' is nevertheless a mod. Some gamers don't understand that there are different levels of Mods.


Meh the browser now ate my post twice Grrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Anyway:

A lot of people don't understand a lot of things. That's the way the world is. Of course presenting things right is crucial, but you have to start somewhere, esp. in the "heh I have 10 seconds before my short attention span is run oh look shiny!" generation we live it. So:

* good: oh I can play it now, for free, it has lots of contents, is awesome and oh look shiny!
* bad: its a mod (meh mod) to doom3 (oh I hate/loved that game and what? oh yes) it has FMs (what are FMs? oh look shiny!)
* right now: Oh look dozend new games I might try, and look shiny!

Notice how TDM doesn't even exist in the world from the POV of 99% of all the gamers.

Compare to this:

http://steamcommunit...287&searchtext=

It makes me want to try it.

Now look at the rest of Greenlight and see the absence of TDM? We had multiple weeks to come up with a strategy, and it looks we will need another month or two and even then we probably won't have anything as nice and shiny. *sigh*
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man." -- George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950)

"Remember: If the game lets you do it, it's not cheating." -- Xarax

#35 Tels

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 03:13 AM

The competition is hard (because of 90% of gamers seem to dig anything with zombies in it), if you look at this:

http://steamcommunit...900&searchtext=

Posted 30th august, 129,426 Unique Visitors 10% Calculated ratings so far 13,638
Current Favorites

http://steamcommunit...287&searchtext=

Has only 9000 visitors. I guess the difference is Spot #1 and Spot #XYZ on page #ABC.

Compare this to TDM, which has 0 visitors.
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man." -- George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950)

"Remember: If the game lets you do it, it's not cheating." -- Xarax

#36 jay pettitt

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 06:52 AM

Wheyhay. We have Zombies.

Semi seriously, we shouldn't be months of strategy away from doing what is effectively a press release. You already have words and pictures and even some of those newfangled moving yoututbe pictures. They might not be the most up to date or as slick as you'd like - but punters aren't going to be the same sort of hyper-critical about that sort of stuff. (they'll be hyper-critical about other stuff).

In fact, some of what TDM already has on show is genuinely quite nifty. You should show it.

If the opportunity to greenlight is now, then can I suggest that the best of what can be cobbled together quickly (and some of it is genuinely quite nifty) is cobbled together. Hell, you could probably grab a bunch of stuff from the MODDB page and call it job done.

And you can build on what you do for greenlight now when it comes to pimping TDM standalone proper and the campaign and other future things.

Edited by jay pettitt, 01 September 2012 - 07:45 AM.


#37 Springheel

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 07:09 AM

Any ideas about TDM _winning_ anything should be set aside immediately.

Stealth games are never going to win popularity contests.
TDM Missions:   A Score to Settle   *   A Reputation to Uphold   *   A New Job   *    A Matter of Hours
 
Video Series:   Springheel's Modules   *   Speedbuild Challenge   *   New Mappers Workshop  *   Building Traps

#38 Tels

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 07:19 AM

Yeah, but not even entering the game because you can't win is silly, too. (And when I say "win", I mean "win the attention of players".)
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"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man." -- George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950)

"Remember: If the game lets you do it, it's not cheating." -- Xarax

#39 jay pettitt

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 07:34 AM

Absolutely - just getting the exposure is a win.

I don't know if it's in any way useful, but I penned some blurb.

The Dark Mod is a purists' stealth game in the mould of classic PC titles from the likes of Looking Glass Studios. An adventure where cunning, guile and the shadows are your tools, The Dark Mod is set amongst the squalor and wealth of the medieval city of Bridgeport where you ply your dangerous trade as a thief across the rooftops and through dark alleys.

It is also a toolset with a unique version of the popular Radiant level editor (Quake 3, Call of Duty etc) for creating your own missions and stories and sharing them with the world, with close to 100 fan made missions already available.

Originally an ambitious modification for Id Software’s Doom 3, we are taking advantage of the recently open-sourced Id Tech 4 game engine and working hard on finalising a stand alone release as an open source title, free to download and play.

The Dark Mod is available to play now as a mod for Doom 3 on Windows, Mac and Linux, and as a stand alone title some time in 2013.


I'm in no way proud, so feel free to ignore, or bastardize or whatever.

Edited by jay pettitt, 01 September 2012 - 07:48 AM.

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#40 Springheel

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 07:45 AM

Sounds good to me.
TDM Missions:   A Score to Settle   *   A Reputation to Uphold   *   A New Job   *    A Matter of Hours
 
Video Series:   Springheel's Modules   *   Speedbuild Challenge   *   New Mappers Workshop  *   Building Traps

#41 jay pettitt

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 08:09 AM

Though there should probably be a link to the website on there or something.

#42 Tels

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 09:08 AM

Some remarks:

* I'd remove the "purist" (its for everyone! :)
* Also, not everyone (esp. the younger ones) will know what "Looking Glass Studios" is.
* In light of non-native speakers, replace guile (I have actually no idea what it means and I consider myself not bad at English :)

Maybe rework the first sentences, mentioning LGS can come later in the text.

And choose only the best screenshots :)
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man." -- George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950)

"Remember: If the game lets you do it, it's not cheating." -- Xarax

#43 MoroseTroll

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 09:16 AM

jay pettitt: Actually, there are 57 FMs (counting NHAT = 3) for TDM, not about 100, as you say. But, in a whole, I like your description of TDM :).

#44 jay pettitt

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 09:27 AM

Some remarks:

* I'd remove the "purist" (its for everyone!) :)


Good point, I think *we* all know what I was intending by that - it's not a shooter with some token sneaking bolted on - but no one else will. I'd argue that it's not for everyone (nor is it trying to be), but you're right - we shouldn't be quite that exclusive ;)

The Dark Mod is a deeply immersive stealth game in the mould of classic PC titles...


* Also, not everyone (esp. the younger ones) will know what "Looking Glass Studios" is. Mentioning LGS can come later in the text.


I can't think of where else to shoehorn it in that wouldn't be stupid. Maybe drop it, come up with something else or accept that it's imperfect and roll with it anyway.


* In light of non-native speakers, replace guile (I have actually no idea what it means and I consider myself not bad at English :)


...where your cunning, wits/ingenuity and the shadows are your tools?

Actually, there are 57 FMs

You'd better get mapping then. Maybe, as 57 isn't quite as impressive sounding as 100 we should say "...with over 50 fan made adventures already available." - which is probably fair, as they're usually a whole bunch more involved than, say, a death match map. More than 50 is a lot of adventures, even if it's not a lot of maps.

Edited by jay pettitt, 01 September 2012 - 09:57 AM.


#45 MoroseTroll

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 09:57 AM

You'd better get mapping then.

I'd prefere to create a story for some map :).

Maybe, as 57 isn't quite as impressive sounding as 100 we should say "...with over 50 fan made adventures already available." - which is probably fair, as they're usually a whole bunch more involved than, say, a death match map.

Maybe. BTW, what about to state an average time of the missions' gameplay in a whole: "57 missions/adventures for over 200 hours of gameplay?"

#46 AngelWolf

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 11:43 AM

* good: oh I can play it now, for free, it has lots of contents, is awesome and oh look shiny!
* bad: its a mod (meh mod) to doom3 (oh I hate/loved that game and what? oh yes) it has FMs (what are FMs? oh look shiny!)
* right now: Oh look dozend new games I might try, and look shiny!

Notice how TDM doesn't even exist in the world from the POV of 99% of all the gamers.


I actually am a member of the "ooh shiny!" crowd, having been struggling with adhd all my life. But that's not necessarily a bad thing, as I frequently have storms of creativity where ideas start flowing faster than my ability to write them down. I think Tels hit the nail on the head there with the public perception of the word mod and Doom 3. Names names names...it all comes down to names. Do you think Doom 3 would have sold a single copy if the name on the box was simply idtech4? Sounds a little vague doesn't it?

Is it a game?
No, it's a toolkit for making games like Doom with all these features....
But I want to play a game!
Well it comes with a bunch of missions we've made already based on the idtech4 universe.
What is it like?
It plays like Doom only darker and scarier.
What's Doom? Wasn't it that crappy movie with the Rock?

Meanwhile, when I read about games that licensed idtech3, I usually see the words "a modified version of"

Return to Castle Wolfenstien: running on a modified version of idtech3
Call of Duty 1: running on a modified version of Return to Castle Wolfenstien

So The Dark Mod could be the name of the engine...a modified version of idtech4. But what is the actual game and it's universe called? People are usually far more interested in the car than the engine.

Example marketing:

Steampunk Shadows
A stealth adventure game in a dark steampunk world. Running on The Dark Mod, a modified version of the idtech4 engine, SS will immerse you in a world of thevery and deception. Creep from shadow to shadow as you break into mansions, castles and crypts searching for loot to steal. Explore vast cityscapes lit up with realistic realtime lighting. Use a vast array of tools against intelligent enemies that stand between you and and your loot. Over 45 missions already available, with more to come! The night belongs to you...what dark secrets will it reveal? It's all waiting for you in Steampunk Shadows.
Taurus philosophy:
Give me a hammer and tell me I have 6 hours to break up a 2 inch thick layer of ice. As soon as you walk away I'm going to use some hot water and salt so I can take a nap for the remaining 5 and a half hours. Taureans hate wasting energy and if there's a more efficient way to do something they will find it.

#47 jay pettitt

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 11:56 AM

9 images plucked from ModDB

No effort was made to find the best, to show variety or to be fair to different mappers. Just the first pics that came up that were good enough until I thought - coo that's way too many.

http://www.moddb.com...teaser#imagebox

http://www.moddb.com...mages6#imagebox
http://www.moddb.com...mages2#imagebox

http://www.moddb.com...mages9#imagebox
http://www.moddb.com...mages6#imagebox

http://www.moddb.com...images#imagebox

http://www.moddb.com...mages9#imagebox
http://www.moddb.com...mages1#imagebox

http://www.moddb.com...mages4#imagebox

#48 Bikerdude

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 05:16 PM

We've been using The Dark Mod for seven years now...I don't think a new name is very likely. I certainly wouldn't support it.

+1 - I also see absolutely no reason why we need to change the name of the mod.

And I would like to add a 5th option to the pole, "I'm not a fan of steam due to its misguided & ill-informed stance towards second hand games".

#49 Reman

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 05:45 PM

Greetings, new member here. Firstly, let me express my gratitude for the entire DM team and mission editors for keeping the true Thief spirit alive. Kudos.

I came here to see your thoughts on the new Greenlight, after noticing that TDM hadn't been added yet. I'd just like to say, that it's only a matter of time when someone submits the game there. And that someone might do more harm than good by posting outdated screenshots, videos and bad info. Also, you might have to deal with Valve's legal department to get the submission removed, if the individual cannot be reached or doesn't want to delete it. So I think it would be best if the official submission got there before the fakes.

#50 Springheel

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 05:54 PM

If it's just a matter of text and some screenshots, then I have no problem with what Jay has presented. I just don't want to see six year-old proof of concept stuff there.
TDM Missions:   A Score to Settle   *   A Reputation to Uphold   *   A New Job   *    A Matter of Hours
 
Video Series:   Springheel's Modules   *   Speedbuild Challenge   *   New Mappers Workshop  *   Building Traps





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