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Fan Mission: Deceptive Shadows by Shadowhide (16/Sep/12)


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Poll: Fan Mission: Deceptive Shadows by Shadowhide (16/Sep/12) (54 member(s) have cast votes)

Gameplay: Enjoyment. Fun duration. Smooth flow, ect. Versus Bugs. Frustration, Boredom, framelag

  1. Poor (6 votes [11.11%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 11.11%

  2. Tolerable (12 votes [22.22%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 22.22%

  3. Good (23 votes [42.59%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 42.59%

  4. Excellent (11 votes [20.37%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 20.37%

  5. Near Perfect (2 votes [3.70%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 3.70%

Appearance: Vertical use, Visual pleasure, lighting, visual style, deduct bad texturing etc.

  1. Poor (1 votes [1.85%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 1.85%

  2. Tolerable (2 votes [3.70%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 3.70%

  3. Good (9 votes [16.67%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 16.67%

  4. Excellent (31 votes [57.41%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 57.41%

  5. Near Perfect (11 votes [20.37%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 20.37%

Story & Text: Story. Text. Briefing. Graphic storytelling

  1. Poor (2 votes [3.70%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 3.70%

  2. Tolerable (9 votes [16.67%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 16.67%

  3. Good (23 votes [42.59%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 42.59%

  4. Excellent (13 votes [24.07%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 24.07%

  5. Near Perfect (7 votes [12.96%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 12.96%

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#101 id3839315

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 04:25 PM

Very nice mission. Especially the lighting looks interesting.

#102 raymeld

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 05:11 AM

Shadowhide , haven't had the chance to thank you for a very interesting and absorbing mission. Just finished with a little help from my friends on here and the odd sneaky noclip ! Gets good votes from me.

#103 Diego

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 10:08 AM

Finished it! :D

What a detailed fm. The story and environmen were well made, readables weren't excessive/boring and the actual events that take place are pretty neat!

Although it's visually very detailed and seems like it must have took months to do it, I didn't find it very appealing. I hope SH doesn't take this the wrong way, I can be extremely annoying when it comes to visual design.

The gameplay, I voted poor because it was a very frustrating mission but there are positive aspects about it. The whole positioning of the guards and lights and the layout of the mission are pretty great! this makes for an excellent stealth mission. However, there's this whole lucas-arts-adventure style of puzzle that just doesn't work well with the tdm stealth. In those old games it could be pretty frustrating to come and go trying to find out what to do next etc, but we could do that easily! here we have to sneak the same guard once, twice, three times, four times, noclip once, noclip twice, and so on. It becomes tiresome and not fun. I'm not saying it's impossible to pull this off but it requires more care. For example, one could divide the level into segments, a more exploratory part, where you can laid out special items and secret passages and all that style of puzzle, and the other with more traditional stealth, so they don't get in the way of each other. Anyway, it's just a thought.

#104 Springheel

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 07:43 PM

Ok, barely started this and I'm already stuck. One way leads to a dead-end with magical symbols, the other way leads to a dead end with a locked door. I can't find keys or a lockpick anywhere, and when I tried alerting the guards on the other side, they didn't seem to be able to open the door either.

Is there a key hidden somewhere or should I be looking for an entirely different route?
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#105 Thiefette

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 08:01 PM

Springheel

Hint:
Spoiler


Big Hint:
Spoiler

Edited by Thiefette, 03 October 2012 - 08:03 PM.


#106 simplen00b

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 05:19 AM

Ok, barely started this and I'm already stuck.

Are you stuck in the cell? If so, (i) you're not the first (I suspect noclip has been used more than a few times) ; (ii) there's a readable outside the door which gives an admittedly pretty lateral clue about what you need to do.
Small hint:
Spoiler

Big hint:
Spoiler


#107 simplen00b

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 06:44 AM

On the off-chance they could be useful, here are lower-detail mission maps (mainly, I've marked the locations of various brothers' rooms so you know where to go when you find the key):-
Spoiler


High detail maps showing locations of secret levers, secret rooms etc can be found in my earlier post here.

HTH.

#108 AluminumHaste

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 11:10 AM

No, he was thrown-out for his continual trolling and bad forum behavior.

His initial criticisms of the mod diminished over time and he eventually conceded that it's
generally a "good thing" though he still questioned the quality of his peers (other FM authors)...

I am glad to converse with him over at TTLG. They can deal with him going into troll-mode if needed.
He can enjoy himself and those antics over there. He's a happy bachelor but he still offers gifts to
his divorcee... :laugh:


Yeah he needed to temper his apparent contempt for everyone's hard work but refused, so was eventually banned. He lasted a lot longer then he should have. It is a shame as he did release a decent mission that pushed several boundaries mostly in scripting.
I am very excited to play this mission although haven't had time yet. Need to get you some screenshots of this mission for moddb.

I always assumed I'd taste like boot leather.

 

#109 Springheel

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 08:19 PM

Ok, I got past the last spot I was stuck and had a good half hour of enjoyment...but now I'm stuck again. I've got a bunch of blocked routes, and no keys to open them. There's the gate at the bottom of the stairs, two locked doors on the lower level, and a statue that needs a "holly hammer" that I can't find. The only keys I've found is the one that was on an AI's belt to "Florian(?)'s room" that had a breath potion in it, and a key to a cabinet that I already picked open.

I'm pretty sure I checked all the AI for keys, though it's possible I missed one. Any hints about where to find something to allow me to continue would be appreciated. I might once have had the patience to run around a mission searching every nook and cranny for some hint of what to do next, but not these days.
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#110 Diego

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 09:10 PM

Spoiler


#111 brethren

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 11:04 PM

@Springheel - I posted a walkthrough on the previous page if you need help.

#112 demagogue

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 07:12 AM

Yes use the walkthru. Even I finished it but I'd be hard pressed to remember each step. If the bottom gates are locked, that sounds like the key that Diego posted. (The lockboxes on the wall beside the gates may be a bit hard to see).
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#113 Springheel

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 07:19 AM

I posted a walkthrough on the previous page if you need help.


Thanks. I'm trying not to spoil the whole thing, but if I get stuck again I'll look there.
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#114 simplen00b

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 01:34 PM

Re the 'holly hammer' (sic): -
Spoiler


#115 Springheel

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 08:34 PM

Ok, played for a bit longer tonight, but I've about had enough. There's nothing I find less enjoyable than searching through dark, massive complexes looking for the one single key that will allow me to actually progress further in the map, which seems to be what this mission is all about. The map does look pretty good in spots, and I get the sense there are some clever things about, but when you make tasks that are so unfathomable that you have to literally drop scrolls with instructions right in front of them.... Just not my cup of tea. Maybe I'll use the walkthrough at some point to get to the end and see what all the fuss is about...so far I've seen absolutely ZERO story, so I assume there must be more somewhere given the voting.

It's a shame, because the main floor of the chapel was great and the conversation was immersive, so I had high hopes.

(Btw, I had a freeze too; something I've not had in TDM before)
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#116 ithel

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 10:01 PM

I enjoyed this one. It was a bit of a key hunt, as others have pointed out, but the locations had a logic to them that made it challenging rather than frustrating (for me). From reading this thread, I knew there was some sort of big surprise toward the end, but what happened was quite a lot different from what I'd guess would happen. I've tried to navigate from that point, but have met a challenge I don't much enjoy, and that's the
Spoiler
Overall, this is a good mission. I like the puzzles and the setting. I thought there was enough background story to make it all seem reasonable, even though I dislike the 'oops-you-got-caught-now-get-out' element. Still, it WAS fun getting out. I didn't need to peek at hints until about three quarters through. I never use no-clip, ever. Thanks for the mission!

Edited by ithel, 07 October 2012 - 10:11 PM.


#117 raymeld

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 10:31 AM

I enjoyed this one. It was a bit of a key hunt, as others have pointed out, but the locations had a logic to them that made it challenging rather than frustrating (for me). From reading this thread, I knew there was some sort of big surprise toward the end, but what happened was quite a lot different from what I'd guess would happen. I've tried to navigate from that point, but have met a challenge I don't much enjoy, and that's the

Spoiler
Overall, this is a good mission. I like the puzzles and the setting. I thought there was enough background story to make it all seem reasonable, even though I dislike the 'oops-you-got-caught-now-get-out' element. Still, it WAS fun getting out. I didn't need to peek at hints until about three quarters through. I never use no-clip, ever. Thanks for the mission!

I've found that, assuming you've got any left ,
Spoiler


#118 TheUnbeholden

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 01:20 PM

Yeah this was

Spoiler

Edited by TheUnbeholden, 14 December 2012 - 01:21 PM.


#119 Obsttorte

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 03:42 PM

Spoiler

It's been a while I was playing this mission, but I'm pretty sure there are hints to almost any key or whatever else you had to find (to be fair)

puzzle based adventure games died out for a reason

they're still there, refusing to die (and still a lot of people liking them, although I wouldn't count myself to them) :smile:
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#120 Tels

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 04:53 PM

It's been a while I was playing this mission, but I'm pretty sure there are hints to almost any key or whatever else you had to find (to be fair)


I haven't played this mission, and this remark isn't about it, either. But if a mission/game needs you to go on the web and check a forum for a hint more than once, then it is either badly designed, or the player approaches it the complete wrong way (which can be either a cultural misunderstanding, or the player just being daft, or just really really impatient :)

In any way, this isn't "fun". A game/misison should be self-contained, there should be enough hints so you can complete it on your own.

Or did you mean this mission has enough hints in it?

they're still there, refusing to die (and still a lot of people liking them, although I wouldn't count myself to them) :smile:


I'm not really a fan of the old-school adventure game,which are very linear (use item A on item B and solve puzzle C with the combination, or you are stuck), and very often illogical (you can dig with the spoon, but not with the spade or the half-bottle. what?)

But puzzle games can be fun :)
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#121 Obsttorte

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 04:38 AM

Or did you mean this mission has enough hints in it?

that's what I've meant

which can be either a cultural misunderstanding

yep, on In the North I searched over an hour for
Spoiler

until I realized, that I was in the church, not in the chapel <_<
So I misunderstood that, too, what was really annoying at this point but nothing I would blame on the mapper (grayman in this case)

This FM here is similar
The main problem IMO is that you have a lot of hidden items(keys) you need and therefore lot of room to misunderstand the various number of hints
(It also seems to me that shadowhide himself isn't an english native, not sure. So he has to write his hints clearly enough but not too clear in a foreign language and the players have to understand the hints written in a for them foreign language :unsure: )
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#122 Tels

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 06:29 AM

that's what I've meant

yep, on In the North I searched over an hour for

Spoiler

until I realized, that I was in the church, not in the chapel <_<
So I misunderstood that, too, what was really annoying at this point but nothing I would blame on the mapper (grayman in this case)

This FM here is similar
The main problem IMO is that you have a lot of hidden items(keys) you need and therefore lot of room to misunderstand the various number of hints
(It also seems to me that shadowhide himself isn't an english native, not sure. So he has to write his hints clearly enough but not too clear in a foreign language and the players have to understand the hints written in a for them foreign language :unsure: )


Yeah, he is Russian, so you get a "Russian to English to German" translation probem :D

And I understand the problem you are having, sometimes missing a small detail can make for a lot of frustration, esp. if this is repeated in every other room. I'll have to see how I can avoid this in my mission.
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man." -- George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950)

"Remember: If the game lets you do it, it's not cheating." -- Xarax

#123 Briareos H

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 07:55 PM

Done and... Heh. Typical Shadowhide, always going for novelty and obnoxious complexity on purpose, remaining uncompromising to the end.
The key hunt is absolutely horrible, but it's such a painful chore that every glimmer of progression, every new and beautiful setpiece in the mission shines like a jewel and feels like a just and oh so sweet reward.

It's brilliant, with every meaning of the word. Colorful and flashy but tasteful, original and emotional with that end scene, atmospheric and always moving. I really felt the strange pagan magic progressing, eating away at every inch of the builder's compound, the desperation and dereliction of its priests.

It's rough, especially with regard to hints, layout, readables and syntax, but it's not that rough for one of Shadowhide's FMs.
I'll be sad if this really was his last mission, but then that's the perfect way to end a short and occasionally brilliant career.

EDIT: I also feel like it captures so well what made Thief's pagan levels so otherwordly. Uncanny.

Edited by Briareos H, 22 July 2013 - 07:58 PM.

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#124 demagogue

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Posted 13 August 2013 - 12:31 AM

This post is just to bump the thread to announce that Shadowhide has released an updated version of his FM that's compliant with TDM 2.0 and a few other changes. The new download link is in the opening post (and here: http://rghost.net/48078929). Someone can post mirror links & I'll edit them in later, or an Admin can edit them in the first post.
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#125 Andrey

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Posted 13 August 2013 - 05:19 AM

http://darkfate.org/...ceptive_shadows




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