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The Custom Mine Thread


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#1 Sotha

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 02:32 AM

In TDM, the mapper can make their custom entities. This thread is for discussion, generation and sharing of custom mine entities. There are a bunch of ready made effects, the mapper can play with. Imagine making a custom noisemaker mines for AI distraction. Or hitman-style deadly "RU-AP" mines that can be detonated with a time delay or alternatively using a remote control. Or a crazy ass holy water mines for silent undead takedowns. Or anti-thief alarm mines that do nothing else but cause a loud noise if the player steps on them.

Since TDM lacks a gas mine, I decided to make one. It seems to work just fine. It uses the gas arrow effects, but I had to make a separate gas result for the mine. The radius is larger for the mine, so that the gas reaches the AIs noses immediately upon mine triggering. Enjoy! Let me know if you see something to improve! It could use a slightly larger custom gas particle effect.

Entitydef, version 1.
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#2 grayman

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 07:50 AM

When creating a new object that's similar to an existing object, it might be expedient to piggyback off the existing object.

For example:

entityDef atdm:projectile_gasmine
{
	 "inherit"   "atdm:projectile_mine"
...
}

This gives you all the basics, like lockpicking, flying sound, mass, etc.

Then change the relevant spawnargs to create "gas mine behavior":

"radius" "70"
"def_result" "atdm:result_gasmine"

etc.

Less copy/paste, less typing, fewer errors.

Just sayin'.

-------------------------------------------------

The gas mine, since it came so close to getting into the game, has a model already:

"model" "models/darkmod/player_equipment/gas_mine.lwo"

There is no shop image or HUD icon for the gas mine. They would need to get made to match the gas mine model. Otherwise, stick to the existing flashmine model, image, and icon.
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#3 Bikerdude

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 08:28 AM

When creating a new object that's similar to an existing object, it might be expedient to piggyback off the existing object.

This has saved many man hours on the odd few mission where I have attempted a cutom entity etc.

#4 Obsttorte

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 03:32 PM

In TDM, the mapper can make their custom entities. This thread is for discussion, generation and sharing of custom mine entities. There are a bunch of ready made effects, the mapper can play with. Imagine making a custom noisemaker mines for AI distraction. Or hitman-style deadly "RU-AP" mines that can be detonated with a time delay or alternatively using a remote control. Or a crazy ass holy water mines for silent undead takedowns. Or anti-thief alarm mines that do nothing else but cause a loud noise if the player steps on them.

What I was thnking about for a while now but never found the time to implement is an emp bomb. You throw it lie a flashbomb and it temporaly disables electrical lights or other machines.
What also may be funny is a tiny robot that the player can threw and that creates suspicious noises and moves apart, so it causes ai to run after them (I know that sounds weird, it's just an idea).
A summoner bomb that temporaly spawns a revenant fighting for you.
The possibility to throw holy water potions on the floor. They will not harm undead as long as they do not step in their, but could prevent them following you if you use this in narrow hallways or such.
A rage bomb (or let's call it mandrasola bomb) that causes enemy ai to attack each other or other things of hallucinations causing them to flee in panic.
Fog bombs covering you from enemies view (but will obviously create suspicion).
In Robin Hood the player could throw a coin bag to distract guards. This would be a mixture of a noise maker and the above mentioned mandrasola bomb.

And so one and so one...
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#5 Obsttorte

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 03:34 PM

Or hitman-style deadly "RU-AP" mines that can be detonated with a time delay or alternatively using a remote control.

I guess what would be more useful is a sticky camera like in splinter cell, that creates a suspicious noise to attract ai and can create a ko gas to knock out the ai attracted. :smile:
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#6 demagogue

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 10:18 PM

I think a smoke bomb would be more useful than a fog bomb (not to say there couldn't be both; mappers can do anything they want if it's custom IMO). A smoke bomb would put up a large thick cloud of white smoke. The guards know there's something there, but they have no idea which direction the player ran. So it's good to give yourself cover to make an escape or entrance. Basically works like a flash bomb, but it occludes from the player's side not the AI's side. As a balance, it should dissipate after a few seconds, so you have to move fast.
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#7 SeriousToni

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 05:40 AM

You could also make a new texture for the new items, that would be awesome :)
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#8 Obsttorte

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 06:32 AM

I think a smoke bomb would be more useful than a fog bomb

FOG=SMOKE to me :smile:
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#9 demagogue

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 01:21 PM

We call that smog. ;)
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#10 Sotha

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 04:51 AM

Also , do other folk have the same problem as I do with mines , in that they never seem to explode. I put one in the exact spot where a haunt kept sitting down but no explosion. I've also left them against doors etc to no avail. It's got to the stage when I never buy them at the beginning of a mission and rarely bother to pick them up when they are available.


True. Mines are a bit problematic at present. I've recently played a lot with mines and they have been working for me. The problem is that they will blow up only if AI steps ON them or player hits them with an arrow. You are right that mines are difficult to use because of their small size and the fact the AI must touch them.

Common occurence is that player places a mine and AI just walks past it.

Because of this, I recently considered making an alternative version of all the mines with a larger model. In my plan, the mine would be flat disc with a diameter of 30-40 cm or so. These mines would then be more effective as the AI would be more likely to walk on them, because of their larger size. Also if the mapper placed such mines as traps in narrow and shallow corridors, the player couldn't just walk past or jump over them.

My plan also involves trying to figure out how to give an impulse to the mine: when the AI steps on it and it explodes, the AI ragdoll would the thrown into the air, making the mine more satisfying to use. It think examining D3 weapons defs might give a clue how to do it.

I'm no modeller, but 'modeling' something like this in DR and texturing it with the original mine textures shouldn't be a immensely difficult task.
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Too bad I have so low amount of time I cannot work on this plan... Yet.
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#11 Obsttorte

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 05:13 AM

My plan also involves trying to figure out how to give an impulse to the mine: when the AI steps on it and it explodes, the AI ragdoll would the thrown into the air, making the mine more satisfying to use.

Instead of letting the mine deal the damage itself, you could let it spawn a func_explode. This does not only kill the ai, but also throws it around :smile:

Instead of making the mine larger you could also consider to let it react to some other kind of stim. Instead of TOUCH you could use VISUAL and a distance check.

I'm no modeller, but 'modeling' something like this in DR and texturing it with the original mine textures shouldn't be a immensely difficult task.

The shape doesn't look very comlicated to me. I'll give it a try.
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#12 Sotha

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 05:18 AM

Hey wait a sec. You are the script-wizard and if you have interest in taking a shot at this....

No new model would be required, if someone figured out how to make the mines PROXIMITY rather than CONTACT.

I wonder if that is possible? In all the other games mines are proximity-based (thief, deusex..)

However, the proximity sensor would need to be velocity based so that the player can crawl near the mine safely to disarm it.

At any rate, mines are very undervalued at present because they are expensive in the shop and much more unreliable to use, mainly because of their small sphere of influence.
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#13 Obsttorte

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 05:38 AM

mines.jpg
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#14 grayman

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 07:30 AM

Oy! Now that's a mine!

I think when I corrected the mine code two years ago, we had a discussion of whether mines were proximity or contact, and I was told they were contact, especially since we wanted the player to be able to get close to an armed mine to be able to disarm it.

If the AI doesn't actually collide with the mine, there is a little bit of wriggle room: an AI whose origin is w/in 23 units of the mine's origin and who is either turning or moving, will set off the mine.

If a mine didn't go off when an AI sat on it, I have to assume that the mine was placed on the chair. The problem with that is that an AI's origin stays at his feet when he sits. Sitting is just an animation, and I guess the mine on the chair is too far away.

At the time, I did experiment with flinging the dead AI a distance away, but it never looked right, coming from so small a mine. I did leave enough force, however, to fling a dead rat across the room.

Edit: Oh, and regarding the mine's size. At its current size, it's always a wonder to me that the AI can't spot it and avoid it. But that behavior wasn't wanted, for gameplay reasons. With a mine that's twice as big, it's really going to be a wonder they can't see it.
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#15 Springheel

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 07:54 AM

Mines do go off when doors hit them; I've used that method several times.
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