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OpenAL EAX support?


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#1 Albert

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 07:11 PM

Seeing as TDM is moving towards being standalone, has there been any thought as to how EAX 4.0 HD should be supplanted? It's not a standard that's widely used anymore, and OpenAL does have it's own alternative (EFX) which is already quite usable in the NewDark engine, for example. (And not to mention, better than the old option which was Alchemy)

Just curious, because I don't have the proper hardware to use EAX 4.0 HD, and Alchemy only works for EAX 3 and below. And from what I've seen, anything OpenAL or EFX would greatly benefit TDM. As it has for the old Thief games.

(Also, I'm thinking the Linux version may already have OpenAL EFX support -- not certain, but I'm talking about all platforms, especially Windows NT)

Edited by Albert, 20 May 2013 - 07:12 PM.

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#2 nbohr1more

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 08:02 PM

Serpentine was working on merging the dhewm branch of Doom 3 with TDM which would include EFX. It seems he's been absent from the forums these days but I presume he'll be back before the next release.
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#3 Albert

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 10:12 PM

Oh yeah, I see him on Freenode sometimes. I'll ask him about this. Thanks for the speedy reply.

#4 SeriousToni

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 10:56 AM

I would be very curious too. Could you please post it here if you have heard something new about this? Thanks! :)
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#5 Albert

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 07:10 PM

Yeah, minor update: He's been busy, so he's been unable to complete that. He is, quote, "looking forward to getting back to TDM."
I admittedly forgot to get a hold of him sooner, and so eventually when looking through my log from today, he stated this to someone else.

#6 ungoliant

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 08:52 AM

Serpentine was working on merging the dhewm branch of Doom 3 with TDM which would include EFX. It seems he's been absent from the forums these days but I presume he'll be back before the next release.


That'd be really great if he could come around and get that running. I can confirm OpenAL works quite well with Windows in TDM 2.0. I've got stereo, 5.1, and 7.1 sound working perfectly with it enabled. EAX seems to be the weak link. The EAX option even toggles off TDM's use of OpenAL when you disable EAX.
AFAIK, EAX really only currently works at all in TDM if you are using a Creative card. That's speculation though, and would need testing to confirm.

#7 SeriousToni

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 02:25 AM

OpenAL works for you in TDM 2.0??
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#8 ungoliant

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 09:45 AM

yes, but its not autoconfigured. set the s_useopenal cvar to 1, and restart the game.
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#9 Bikerdude

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 01:53 PM

set the s_useopenal cvar to 1, and restart the game.

IS this in the Wiki..?

#10 SeriousToni

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 05:56 PM

Is there a map where I can test out OpenAL? It doesn't seem to make a difference yet
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#11 nbohr1more

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 07:19 PM

Thus far, all OpenAL will get you is surround sound. And you'll need to use cvars to specify the number of speakers.

If you are looking for "environmental audio effects" (reverb, etc), you will need to wait for Serpentine or someone else to merge the EFX code changes.
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#12 Springheel

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 07:45 PM

Thus far, all OpenAL will get you is surround sound. And you'll need to use cvars to specify the number of speakers.


Wait, are you saying surround sound doesn't work by default in TDM??
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#13 nbohr1more

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 09:24 PM

Not sure?

I seem to recall a discussion that the "seta s_numberOfSpeakers" cvar had to be set manually. Maybe it picks up the speakers automatically now?
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#14 Springheel

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 09:51 PM

I've got surround sound speakers and I always just assumed it worked properly. If it's not I'd like to know.
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#15 rich_is_bored

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 10:22 PM

The value is supposed to be pulled from the OS so if you're desktop is setup for surround sound then it should carry over into the game. But it wouldn't hurt to pull down the console and check.

#16 ungoliant

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 10:54 PM

personally with TDM at default config, only 5.1 works for me, and i have a 7.1 setup. And this only works after setting Windows to say "using 5.1 speakers". Pain in the ass. with s_useopenal cvar in TDM 2.0, it finally works properly with 7.1 (except eax).

@nb: the thing with s_numberofspeakers was really just that it was the only console feedback telling you if your surround sound was really working or not, and what type it was using. you could try setting it manually, but it still didn't work 99% of the time. This is fixed in 2.0, it now properly outputs if you're using stereo, 5.1, or 7.1 via menu, so I don't use this cvar anymore, really.

I've got surround sound speakers and I always just assumed it worked properly. If it's not I'd like to know.

try the s_numberofspeakers cvar yourself and see if its really working. As a final test, I usually go to the lockpick area in the training mission, and spin around in circles next to the loud machine.

#17 Springheel

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 07:50 PM

I've got 5.1, so that might explain it.
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#18 Cookie

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 03:23 AM

I remember a quite impressive video about eax and tdm on youtube ->

as i´m a complete noob regarding hardware/software issues, I´d like to know if Open AL support would make it possible for
mappers to include such sound effects in their maps without the need for players to possess specific hardware like eax
obviously does.

Edited by Cookie, 12 August 2013 - 03:59 AM.


#19 Expack3

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 08:15 AM

I remember a quite impressive video about eax and tdm on youtube -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccsKByfgB5s

as i´m a complete noob regarding hardware/software issues, I´d like to know if Open AL support would make it possible for
mappers to include such sound effects in their maps without the need for players to possess specific hardware like eax
obviously does.

I wouldn't know whether it would or not, but if it doesn't, and there was enough interest to do so, the Wwise Interactive Sound Engine would be an excellent replacement, being a professional-grade, software-based sound engine on par with other such engines like FMOD.

Of course, actually integrating Wwise would be a challenge since The Dark Mod, being based on Doom 3's source code, already has its own EAX-based sound engine; therefore, if the old engine was replaced with a radically new one, it would likely break sound design for most, if not all, TDM maps. In regards to liscening Wwise, while its licensing page states the source code to the PC SDK is available for free to non-commercial projects, it doesn't specify whether this includes source code access to the sound engine itself. Also, there is the matter of potentially tying TDM to a specific sound engine which requires an expensive paid license to be purchased should the game go commercial.

Edited by Expack3, 12 August 2013 - 08:15 AM.


#20 rich_is_bored

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 01:07 PM

OpenAL has an extension called EFX that encapsulates all the functionality of EAX without the hardware requirements. Scroll up a bit and you'll see that some work has already been done to integrate it into TDM.
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#21 Cookie

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 01:38 PM

Well thanks just wanted to ensure the part with the hardware requirements :)

But if this is true and this feature will make it to a future version of TDM, it might be a great topic to gather attention for the game as I have never heard anything like this in a game before (lack of hardware with eax support and I guess this might apply to many people)

Edited by Cookie, 12 August 2013 - 01:38 PM.


#22 Expack3

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 06:54 PM

OpenAL has an extension called EFX that encapsulates all the functionality of EAX without the hardware requirements. Scroll up a bit and you'll see that some work has already been done to integrate it into TDM.

Well that would make things simpler. :) Do you know if EFX supports EAX5 functionality?

#23 SeriousToni

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 05:33 PM

Well - until the support works I recommend to try this out:

If you have a sound card that supports so called post processing effects like my onboard ALC blablabla from Realtek, then you can try adding sound presets from the effects menu like "stone corridor" when you start the game. Then you will have a nice reverb for every ingame sound which adds a lot of immersion :)

Isn't this genious? ^_^
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#24 Albert

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 05:01 PM

Well with TDM 2.0 out now, I see that the branch that supports OpenAL EFX is still not there. Darn.

#25 Serpentine

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 05:21 PM

I did the port in March odd, however I got frustrated trying to work out how to merge it into the SVN, since my changes were... vast.

I have said that I am willing to do the port to dhewm3 again in the coming week, however I can make no promises that it will happen other than... I'm happy to do it if the others are happy. I will discuss it in the next few days.
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