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Sharing lore and canons?

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#1 FatSpy

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 10:56 AM

So I recently got into the dark mod, and it's probably one of the best stealth games to come out within the last decade. However, there is one little thing that I would like to bring up and it's one of the things that The Dark Project (or Gold) did better than Thief 2 which is commonly overlooked and that is the general lore of the world.

For example: Thief 1 was full of all sorts of strange mythical places and a complex world that made you feel like you where apart of something bigger than pulling a heist off. Garrets story might have been really simple, but there was so much stuff underlying that it was ridiculous. The balance between Nature and Human Buildings (the evils of both show in thief 1 then 2), the lost city, the bonehoard, the elements of magic (Earth, Air, Fire, Water), and all this depth just in the world alone.

Thief 2 was obviously dominant in the stealth department, but it didn't really bring nearly as much depth to the series and was really centered around the main antagonist.

Now that doesn't mean that single missions can't have depth for example, I just beat WS1: The North and there was a lot going on in this mission and so much history behind the area and a lot of drama. However, it'd still be cool if there was a general lore or several general worlds or canons that could be built off of and added to. Now there actually is a innate canon with the dark mod, for example the builders, steam-punk, mideval, environment, etc but I it might be interesting to take it a step further.

So what I thought might be a cool thing to do is maybe developing a general lore, or several different canons that mappers can decide whether or not they want to be a part of that. Say if this actually happens (or already is happening I might not have noticed it because I'm new) and there are 3 main cannons, mappers could decide whether or not to make additions to one of none of those cannons with a map and then it'd help sort of recreate the whole mythical world brimming with lore that thief 1 had. Maybe have a lore section or canon section on the wiki that would hold info on each lore, and what maps are associated with the world and whats considered canon for each lore and what is not, and I'm not really saying that they should all be stories written around a single main character I mean just the world, factions, workings in magic, etc could be developed and added onto making an interesting community made setting (or several settings).

I'm not really saying this absolutely should or ever will happen, but I thought it would be an interesting idea to discuss: What I proposed and just lore in general.

#2 Springheel

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 11:19 AM

Sounds like you're looking for this: http://wiki.thedarkm...?title=Universe
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#3 demagogue

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 12:33 PM

Yes there's that wiki entry Springheel posted that's very good to get an idea of our world & lore.

What we need, what you're saying I think, are mappers giving more life to the lore in FMs. Actually this is something any fan can do with fanfiction too.

A common mantra we have around here is, if you have a good idea, one of the best things you can try is contributing your ideas. We're a very DIY kind of place. After reading those wiki entries, you might make an FM (use the wiki tutorial to learn), or script an FM, or even write a fan-fiction story with it... Anything like that would be really valuable for us! It'd be great to have more of our lore out there in FM & story form.
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#4 jaxa

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 03:50 PM

Maybe we'll see more of lore in the Crucible of Omens campaign.

#5 FatSpy

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 04:44 PM

Sounds like you're looking for this: http://wiki.thedarkm...?title=Universe

i searched "Lore" and "Story" and I think a few other things, but yeah that's pretty much what I was looking for by the looks of it, although i probably should have looked at the main wiki page.
edit: After skimming over that that's more of the general cannon, but I was thinking a little deeper than that where maps would be considered real locations in that world not just missions that take place in that world, and maybe if something massive happens in one fan mission it could be acknowledged or referenced to in other missions. Maybe also making additions to philosophies behind magic, or add other factions that weren't seen earlier because they're far away from where TDM's general universe takes place.

Also what about worlds that parallel the dark mod but are a completely different universe? The factions could be similar, but have a completely different set of ethics and operate in entirely different ways.

However, if pretty much anyone can change things in the universe that effects everyone else it'd be a mess so it'd be up to the original writer of the universe(s if more universes come forward) to decide whats canon and whats not.

Yes there's that wiki entry Springheel posted that's very good to get an idea of our world & lore.

What we need, what you're saying I think, are mappers giving more life to the lore in FMs. Actually this is something any fan can do with fanfiction too.

A common mantra we have around here is, if you have a good idea, one of the best things you can try is contributing your ideas. We're a very DIY kind of place. After reading those wiki entries, you might make an FM (use the wiki tutorial to learn), or script an FM, or even write a fan-fiction story with it... Anything like that would be really valuable for us! It'd be great to have more of our lore out there in FM & story form.


I actually might work on a FM sometime in the future if time allows it. What I was more getting towards is, even if you add all the lore you possible can in a mission, does it stop and end with that mission? Is it a real place in that world or is it just a 1 time thing never to be seen again.

Edited by FatSpy, 18 October 2013 - 05:05 PM.

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#6 Moonbo

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 07:45 PM

I think that's up to you :-). For instance I referenced the Lich Queen (from Sotha's missions) in Requiem. If you're inspired by lore in an fm, by all means put it in yours.
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#7 RPGista

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 11:13 PM

Exactly as Moonbo says. Its really up to the FM author. Missions offer their own interpretations of the city and its social order. The character is always changing. Some missions are even in a different "realm" regarding time and place, the game is used as a base to build upon with your own imagination. That said, several of the more regular mappers have clearly made the choice of supporting the official setting and contributed to add to the home city's lore, so there should be a pretty decent wealth of little stories, famous characters and building structures one could gather and use already, if interested.

Edited by RPGista, 18 October 2013 - 11:15 PM.


#8 Obsttorte

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 01:43 AM

In this regard it may be worth going through the missions and write down the main story plots/characters, similar to a "what happened in the last episode" :P

This way mappers who want to extend the universe and its lore with their FM would have an good starting point.

But I may also note that not every mapper has such an attitude towards story. I for an example interpret the story in my FM's more of a background which gives the player a meaning of what he is doing and why, and use it to create a bit of tension. However, my main focus lies on gameplay, so I never invest overhelmingly much time in creating a good story and tons of readables to extend the lore. Maybe it's just me, though.

What I'm trying to say is that it is always up to the mapper how far he wants to go with the main canon, and how far he wants to extend it or refer to it. So for those who are trying that something like what I mentioned first may be helpful, but if you are going to setup some "main lores" the mappers can choose from, you may be wasting your time, as on the one side not everybody may notice it and on the otherside not everybody is going to stick to it.
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#9 FatSpy

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 04:42 AM

In this regard it may be worth going through the missions and write down the main story plots/characters, similar to a "what happened in the last episode" :P

This way mappers who want to extend the universe and its lore with their FM would have an good starting point.

But I may also note that not every mapper has such an attitude towards story. I for an example interpret the story in my FM's more of a background which gives the player a meaning of what he is doing and why, and use it to create a bit of tension. However, my main focus lies on gameplay, so I never invest overhelmingly much time in creating a good story and tons of readables to extend the lore. Maybe it's just me, though.

What I'm trying to say is that it is always up to the mapper how far he wants to go with the main canon, and how far he wants to extend it or refer to it. So for those who are trying that something like what I mentioned first may be helpful, but if you are going to setup some "main lores" the mappers can choose from, you may be wasting your time, as on the one side not everybody may notice it and on the otherside not everybody is going to stick to it.


This is more of along the lines of what I'm talking about. Like I said earlier I wasn't saying everyone should absolutely adopt it just that it'd be an interesting way to develop the lore for people who are interested.

Obviously not everyone is going to want to be apart of it and some even most people might not even notice it, but I just thought it was an interesting thing to bring up.

Edited by FatSpy, 19 October 2013 - 04:43 AM.






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